GUN SAFE

Looking to buy a gun safe with a $500-700 budget. Larger 20-30 long guns preferably..
Looking at some Winchester models now.
I know I can just go look but any input and experiences would be appreciated. Things such as shitty designs or if one brand is just shit versus another. You can't get the same experience of years of ownership by just swinging the doors in the store.

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1 bump then I'll let it slide.

Following this thread. I don't need bombproof protection. I just need to keep out the urban wildlife for 20min. I have cameras.

Hey OP, I have two safes A Liberty and a Cannon. It may take a little longer to get in the Liberty but neither have been tested. I had to special order the Liberty to get the mechanical lock. Most have digital locks these days and if an EMP or CME happened I would think you would not be able to access your funs. get a mechanical lock if you can.

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At your budget you cannot even come close to affording something which is legally classifed as a safe.

You can, however, get a fancy metal box which barely meets the definition of a "residential security container".

>You can't get the same experience of years of ownership by just swinging the doors in the store.
Yeah, you can. Feel the weight. Weight is everything.

This video is very educational; I have no connection whatsoever to the channel or the company involved:
youtube.com/watch?v=ltK-bDbADa8

I prefer mechanical locks to digital ones. Why?
-electronic locks aren't very reliable compared to mechanical
-electronic locks depend on batteries. What happens if the battery is dead and you need to get into your safe NOW?
-electronic locks generally "lock you out" after a number of failed attempts to dial the combo. That can easily happen if you're under stress. A mechanical lock has no such problem, it won't lock you out for 10 minutes while Tyrone is beating down your front door just because you mis-entered your combo.

Used safes (real ones) are a great way to get serious security for a fraction of the price. You can easily change out the lock or just change the combination on the existing lock if you are worried bout prior knowledge of it.

How do you move a 1000 pound yuge box into a house? Are there companies that specialize in that?

>Used safes (real ones) are a great way to get serious security for a fraction of the price. You can easily change out the lock or just change the combination on the existing lock if you are worried bout prior knowledge of it.
Never even thought about used. Thanks

>Are there companies that specialize in that?
Yes. Safe dealers have their own moving crews who handle that. You could also contact a "rigger". Rigging companies are the equivalent of "movers", but they specialize in industrial machinery and whatnot instead of normal home stuff.

I've moved a few gun safes before. I did it with a bunch of golf balls and scrap plywood. Pry up the safe with a crowbar and put golf balls under it. Now you can roll around the safe on top of the golf balls. Use a bunch of them so they don't sink down into the floor. If you have to move over carpet then put some thin plywood down temporarily and roll the safe and the golf balls over it.

No prob.
FYI, safe locks come in many types and they are all a standard form factor. You can buy a safe and then swap out the lock easily to a different type. A good quality brand new safe lock costs about $150-200 or so.

If the safe has a combination lock you can change the combination easily. That usually requires a tool that costs under $10, or you can call a locksmith and have them do it for you. You will need to have the existing combination if you want to do this.

Do some googling, there are plenty of safes on the used market which come from a variety of industries: payroll/deposits, jewelry shops and pawn stores, even the pharmacy industry: the law requires that certain medications are stored in a safe, so as companies go in-and-out of business there's a lot of them being sold. They probably won't come with a "gun" interior, but that's no big deal if you are handy with tools. Just yank out whatever shelves are in there and build new ones for your guns, cover with carpet.

Gun safes that are affordable aren’t really fun safes. It’s a sheet metal box lined with drywall to make it weigh a lot and some carpet to make it seem legit.

None of them stand up to tools (grinder) or pry bars.

What you should get is a locking cabinet that will protect against easy grab and count on thieves stealing other valuables in your house.

Stack On and others make locking cabinets that aren’t heavy, and aren’t expensive. Put one in a closet, bolt it down, and you’ve god the same level of protection as any of the lowend safes.

Just to throw this idea out there:
Another great idea is to get a used cola vending machine. Many people already have these for their garage or "man cave" or whatever so it doesn't look like a "gun safe" to a crook.

Plus, vending machines are very strongly built. They're not as good as a real safe, but they're a hell of a lot better than what you'd buy at the $500 price point. They are designed to withstand attacks from thieves trying to steal the money inside. You can just remove all the vending guts, then you have a very large, very strong, locking metal box you can put loads of guns in and potential thieves probably won't even notice it.

Stack on bro

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why do so many people recommend a product which is obviously shit-tier?

>what is a faraday’s cage?

Lotta nerds in this thread. You can get a steelwater gun safe for under $1000, is it gonna stop a robber that comes prepared? No. Will it stop a random robber from getting all you're guns? Yes. What else can you ask it to do? The best defense is not living in a shit hole and never let random people know how much shit you got in your house

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Your*

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A proper safe will stop a robber who comes prepared.

That said, it's all a matter of what you're putting in it. It's just as stupid to buy a $500 safe for a $300,000 gun collection as it is to put a $2000 gun collection in a $10,000 safe.

not a gun safe

I assume user's point was that you could protect your electronic lock with a faraday cage. Hell, most electronic locks probably have one built-in, at least if they are made out of metal.

That said, electronic locks have a number of other drawbacks posted above. They are, however, very fast to access your safe. A wise move might be to get a combo setup where you have a combination lock with a mechanical backup you can use if the electronic lock fails. I know at least one of the major lock manufacturers (S&G, I think) makes a combo lock like this. At least one of the major gun safe companies (Fort Knox, maybe?) offers it as a standard option. It can easily be retrofitted to any other safe.

Because they're almost all shit. A piss cheap stack on is going to accomplish what most people want: storage, retarded child accessiblility prevention, and basic jigaboo grab and run robbery prevention. If someone is coming with the tools to break into a stack on they have the tools to break into most gun safes on the market. The difference being minutes it takes to get in.

there's a huge fucking difference between getting into a stack-on in 10 seconds with a crowbar versus taking hours to get into a Fort Knox, Liberty, etc.

I do agree that the stack-on makes sense if all you want is basic storage or something to keep kids or curious guests away from your guns, but I certainly don't think it is worth mentioning in the context of the word "safe".

Yeah the difference is about 5 minutes for most "safes". It's a false sense of security. Either pony up thr dough for a legitimate safe or buy something cheap and locking with the understanding that a smarter than the average jigaboo will get in it.

Used safes, but could be hard to find. Sturdy safes come real close to being real safes but start at $1300. Im about to get the 28"w x 60"h with the most popular package, fire lining, and probably the floor plate

>Yeah the difference is about 5 minutes for most "safes".
So don't recommend "most safes" then. There are plenty of options that aren't Stack-on or Chinesium big-box store tier.

>if an EMP or CME
while i respect your sticking by mechanical systems, your reasoning is a bit retarded. life is not splinter cell, you're gonna get EMP'd when a nuke goes off and that's about the only time
and CME, is there a single time in history where this has had an EMP effect on anyone or anything? cmon now

genius
thanks for your wisdom
ancientegyptianrevisionistbro

high quality post

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Sure, assuming price isnt an issue but purchases are rarely made in a vacuum. I can also almost guarantee the brands you think are good are not. Liberty uses the laughable RSC ratings and I dont even think Fort Knox rates theirs. I highly advise you do some research into how much bullshit gun specific safes are.

yeah I never understood people who don't want an electronic lock because of EMP. The whole reason to not get one is so when that thing gets fucked up you aren't locked out and have to drill your safe

>versus taking hours to get into a Fort Knox, Liberty, etc.
You can literally see a video on jewtube of a guy with a crowbar opening a liberty safe up in like 15 seconds m8

>I highly advise you do some research into how much bullshit gun specific safes are.
I gave the same advice earlier in the thread. Did you watch the video I linked to?

I'm not claiming a Liberty or a Ft. Knox is as serious as a genuine U.L. listed safe, but I disagree entirely with your claim that the difference in time is "5 minutes". That's absurd hyperbole.

I work in the metalworking business. I've ran a machine/fab shop for 20 years. I own a variety of tools which could get into a safe--from mag base drills, to plasma cutters, oxyfuel torches, electric and gas-operated cutoff machines, all manner of grinders and saws. And while I certainly could get into a Ft. Knox or a Liberty, it would take me a lot longer than 5 minutes. I know for a fact I could get into a stack-on in that time, either by prying or using a grinder with a cutoff disc. Even a cordless grinder could get in in under 5 minutes.

Clarify your hyperbole please, it's your 5 minute figure which I think is ridiculous.

I stand corrected, I don't know much about liberty, but I am familar with Ft. Knox.

Which model was it? I assume it must be pretty low end for a simple pry attack to make sense. When I'm talking about safes "taking hours" I'm thinking the price point of mid range of Ft Knox, costing roughly $3,000. The few Liberties I have seen have been around that price point too. Maybe I've only seen high-end liberties? I dunno. Anyway, that's where I'm coming from.

Bruh high end safes are only rated for like 30 minutes up to 60. RSC is something like 5 minutes minimum to pass and only includes basic tools like screw drivers and pry bars of certain lengths or weights. Many can be circumvented by tipping them. All of it goes out the window along with your stuff if they find your basic cutting tools in the garage. It's extremely bleak. The Gun Safe industry is a huge scam.

Used Fort Knox on Craigslist for $900. Older model from 1990s. New ones are 3k. Good buy?

Yea I just keep my guns under the sink. Cuz who the fuck would look under the sink for guns

>Bruh high end safes are only rated for like 30 minutes up to 60
give me an example of what you mean by a "high end safe". To me, "high end safe" means a real safe with a real UL rating as a safe, not RSC. I'm thinking Mosler or Kaba, probably costing a minimum of $20k. That's "high end safe" to me.

I agree 100% about the rest of your post.

Which model? The low-end Fort Knoxes are not very good. The nicer ones can have 1" thick steel all around, including hardened layers to defeat grinding and others to defeat torches.

>RSC is something like 5 minutes minimum to pass

so you're not talking about a mid-range Liberty or Fort Knox like the other guy is
youre talking about the bare minimum for an r s c rating.

not the same thing at all

Fort Knox Executive Series. "The door is 3/8" thick steel."

Craigslist guy not high end safe guy

>Craigslist guy not high end safe guy
Yeah, I figured.
See if you can get the serial no from the safe or ask the seller if he has any more info from when he bought it. Here's how Ft. Knox works: they have a variety of safe models which have a standard thickness. In this case, the main plate in the door is 3/8--that's what's meant by "executive series". However, you can order more steel to be added as an option. See if you can find out if this safe has any added options, which is a very common thing. Really, buying a Ft. Knox safe is a lot like buying a car: there are base models and all sorts of options/upgrades available too. Just like how car dealers offer special "option packages", Ft Knox does that too.

That said, the door will have a 3/8 main plate, and it will also have another layer (probably about 1/8) at a minimum. The fireproofing material is sandwiched between those layers. That's not a high-end safe by any means, but 1/2 inch of steel is no joke and that's a good price too. It's not like safes wear out. Worst case scenario you drop $200 to put a new lock in it for peace of mind. Looks like a good deal to me. You'd have a hard time getting better for that price point.

Nice. Thanks for all the info

is taking an angle grinder to the door the only way to get into a safe? my uncle passed away and we have no idea what the password is and there are some magical funs waiting to be liberated in there.

I have locksmith experience, I can help, but more information is needed. Are you talking about a "gun safe" or a real safe? That's very important info.

Also, what kind of lock does it have? Key? combo? digital? Post pic if you have it.

1) you talking gun safe or real safe?

2) d

it's digital. knowing my uncle it's probably a "real" one. its massive. like refrigerator height i should have snapped a pic of the brand. the logo was painted on the side.

>digital
a few options then.
-Many brands of electronic lock have default master codes which are known to locksmiths.
-Depending on the brand of the safe, a locksmith will have information regarding exactly where to drill a small hole in the door which they can then use to unlock the mechanism inside. That tiny hole is then welded shut.
-If you have to cut into the safe the door is the worst part to do it; the door is the thickest part of most safes. The sides/back/etc are usually a lot thinner and easier to get into.

There may be other tricks possible too, but it all depends on the brand/model.

cool, that helps us a lot. it will probably be a long while before before my aunt is ready to deal with all that kind of stuff, but it's good to know that a locksmith should be able to help. my cousins are saying he had about 60 guns so it'll be fun to sort through them when the day comes. i was sorting his ammo and he had at least 10 grand worth stockpiled in his basement.

>give me an example
TL-15 or above

I think we're both on the same page and getting lost in posts about my original intention, which was many safes people perceive as good because they cost more than a 400 dollar Stack On are also a shitty RSC rating and are easily defeated in real world crack head tech conditions. You need to spend several orders of magnitude more to get what I would consider an actual safe and not just a glorified 5k locker, and if you're not willing too, then why spend half of what you need to make yourself falsely feel better.

Liberty's 5k safe has the same security rating as their 500 dollar lowest end safe. Fort Knox isn't as forthcoming with their actual ratings but I'm seeing at least one place list their more pricey models like the Legend are RSC as well.

Most modern cases have a way to open them with a key if they lose power (because people forget to replace the batteries), so the whole "Gubbm't gunna fry my safe" thing is a non-issue. That, and the fact that generating a pulse that powerful would likely result in leveling your house anyway.

Personally though, I think it's quicker and less of a hassle to just use a fuckin key than to deal with biometrics or 6 digit codes. For a stand up safe, you shouldn't need to get into it that quick anyway; that's what pistol safes are for.

Agreed 100% about the first part.

Regarding the second part, ratings aren't everything. Clearly the thicker, heavier, construction of the higher-end models would take more time and effort to cut, pry, etc, compared to the lower-end models. I'm not claiming that they are as good as a proper UL rated "Safe", but I don't think anyone is getting in one in 5 minutes....

....unless they pull that dumb shit.
A 3-dial combination lock safe lock is an honest bitch to "crack", even for a pro. That silly little key backup though? Fucking idiotic. Easily picked, bumped, or raked. That's a huge fucking weakness added to the safe.

On a proper safe you need the key to unlock the knob before you can *turn* it...then you enter the combo. It's not a backup, it's another layer. And if you want a really serious safe lock, you get one with a skeleton key like pic related. Kaba-Mauer Primus C has 14 levers for something like 13.5 billion possible variations...better than even a 4-number combination lock.

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>$500-$700
>safe
Oh no no no no
*wheeze*

Curb your Autism.

k, poorfag

you can also call local locksmiths and ask if they deliver safes, many do. Its easy to drop-ship to a locksmith and they can get it in your house from there.

ive noticed safe fags are pretty autistic. i think its because a lot of people arent really into safes, so it irks them when people talk about locking mechanisms and ul ratings and stuff. kind of like when normies talk about guns or something.

gunsafereviewsguy.com/
sorry for the TLDR of this site, but its very thorough

Nah, we just hate poorfags who think a $600 gym locker is adequate protection.

For some it is

This is brilliant. Good for any heavy shit indoors.

no, its definitely austim.
in any "what safe should i get?" thread on any forum, its guaranteed someone will inevitably come in with the "achshually, thats just a metal locker. thats not a REAL safe"

>its guaranteed someone will inevitably come in with the "achshually, thats just a metal locker. thats not a REAL safe"

Well they're not. Some are made to look like safes. Would you call a bb gun that looks like an AR15 a "rifle"? I mean they both look the same. They both shoot projectiles.

Pic related, this is what a real safe looks like.

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Looks like shit bruv

Who the fuck cares, it's a safe not some faggoty furniture you and your boyfriend picked out at Pottery Barn.

Tann is a British company. user was being cheeky.

You're dealing with barely human retard thieves?
Buy a cheap safe, put a used hi-point in it or diecast airsoft pistol, fake costume jewelry, whatever etc...
Cheap safes only are good at being heavy.
Cut a false square out whatever flooring material it's above, along with carpet, hide actual stash under that.
Most criminals don't bother looking beyond a "find".

Just moved into a new spot. Pulled the dimensions and I should be able to fit a safe in here just fine. Until then I have my pani/k/ room

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