Why does Jow Forums have little interested in helicopters...

With good reason, the Longbow Apache is fucking spooky.

>Radar capable of tracking 128 targets and engaging 16 at once

>Datalinks enable a single apache to target for other apaches or send info to ground units

>Longbow hellfires are fire-and-forget all weather missile that can lock on after launch (can fire the missile from behind a hill, it pops over and tracks the target) and has a range of 8km

>all done under defilade which is nearly impossible to hit the apache in as it slings missiles at you, fucks 16 of your tanks,then fucks off

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I wish a game like Arma 3 or something would replicate that shit.

Why didn't they just keep it as a scout akin the Japanese OH-1?

Nothing in vidya, movies, books or otherwise comes close to replicating or stating what these things can do. It's really sad. No other helicopter has this sort of capability.
The Havoc has a track radar but it's most modern missiles still require constant target tracking and only two can be launched at once.

I don't think the radar was a thing during the fulda gap scare. was it?

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Because it was as expensive as it was beautiful. the army would rather fund dead end programs

Ooh, I'm retarded, it wasn't. AH-64D only came into play in 1995. What was so spooky about regular old Apaches, then?

hellfires and 13 foxtrots with laser designation

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If Ivan zerg rushed the fulda gap you would'nt have needed radar to find him. you just needed hela hellfires to stop him until the Abrams got there.
A response to an armored breakthrough would go like this.

1. A-10 take off from spangdalum on a suicide mission to slow the russians down, hopefully, we have local air parity.
2. Apaches fly in to break up the advance and expend all their Hellfires
3. The M1 and M2 show up to counter attack

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CMANO

Always need moh money fo dem programs.

>Why does Jow Forums have little interested in helicopters?
? Helicopters are awesome. Fuck off

The fear is that a competent peer to peer force would have the means and skill to destroy helicopters quickly and effectively.

>Nuclear mine in the gap goes off

1 of 2 they actually made is in the museum here.

The push for UAVs in hunter/killer teams. The newest model (E) can not only watch the feed from UAVs but have the ability to actually pilot them. Though current doctrine stops it, an Apache pilot can fly a UAV while flying the AH-64.

No shit, dingus. That’s why I made the thread.

After the M1/M2,Apache, and A-10 triad were put together, General Meyer intended to destroy the Warsaw pact forces.
Before the triad, nukes were very likely as the Soviet armor was so superior. The combat life of an M-60 crew was measured in minutes.
The during the late 70s and 80s the Soviets advantage had been lost.
Apaches were the key in the entire plan.
The whole AH-64 organization stays outside the range of enemy artillery. Apache rearms/refuels outside enemy artillery and quickly shuttles in. With two divisions' AH-64 battalions, plus three more at Corps level, the Corps commander had the theoretical capability to mass 5 x 18 = 90 Apaches x 16 Hellfires = 1,440 Hellfires at a threatened breakthrough.
This was how we were going to stop the Soviets from getting to the Atlantic.

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>To fly is heavenly... but to hover is divine

But while you hover, your divine ass will be shot to pieces by manpads and machine guns that your divine chopper's ultra hi-tech scanners won't be able to pick up.

>I understand that the sovets feared the Apache more than the A-10 or the M1 MBT.

Until this bastard and it's pals ruined all the fun.

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It's capable of downing helicopters but so is the patriot. I can't find any record of it being used against helicopters, but it seems to me that it wouldn't work for targets flying under the treeline. I think the only SHORAD they really worry about are manpads and AAA

youtube.com/watch?v=jLjSUxZf5xw

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Then you look at the one the Brits are putting together. Basically the same as the E model (well, it is an E model with some navalised bits) and then throwing a 40km range Brimstone 3 missile on it with even more swarm attack capability than the Hellfire has. (Auto-retarget if target already hit, convoy stop mode to identify front/back as well as the most valuable targets, blocked target rerouting etc)

A big 40km bubble of missile swarming death surrounding every helo's hiding position.

Like you said. Apaches are some spooky shit.

>40km
Oh great job Britain. You've basically necessitated the widespread adoption and development of APS for tanks. This is just like when you made every ship in the world obsolete with the dreadnought. Including your own fleet.

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>samefag backpatting

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I would think the Cobra would be more agile than the Apache given that it’s smaller and lighter.

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That doesn't prove anything you phoneposting newfag.

Scary shit, those poor bastards in the initial defense knew that they had an expected survival time in minutes more or less. The infantry were probably only meant ot fire off a single TOW or Dragon missile and then get vaporized by a tank shell

>the more advanced and agile apache would be safer still

Except Apaches had to return to base after taking SMALL ARMS ground fire during the second Iraq war.

Yeah, because hundreds of US AH-64s and AH-1s has been shot down the last few decades

Oh, wait.

But it was a scout in the first place. Light attack was only a secondary role.

My post couldn't even be considered back patting. I was saying that the brimstone was going to further escalate the arms race between active protection systems and anti tank missiles. Similar to how the British lost the advantage their large fleets had by bringing dreadnoughts into vogue

Can you post a US cold war organisation table of a division or corps if you have it? That sounds based

Imagine how the nato troops in Berlin felt...

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>hopefully we have air parity
That won’t be a problem

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The eagle outclassed every fighter the Soviets had. But the Soviets kept their air defense systems fairly close to the front. We don't know how that would have changed the game.
Check out this puppet show on how a war between Russia and Europe would look today, and keep in mind that Russia is only a shadow of the Soviet union

youtube.com/watch?v=BT7j6xU-Fjo

When I was in Afghanistan, we often had a little bird provide air support for us, they worked well for FOB defences as well since they are fast and agile. Anytime I flew anywhere in country it would be in typically Russian helicopters with civilian pilots, those where sketch af because they where big, slow, and often we had no support for a many hours long flight in a 20+ year old helicopter. Its pretty easy for a rocket to take out blackhawks or larger helicopters in a theater with lots of high mountains, valleys, etc forcing predictable flight paths leading to easy rocket ambushes.

However, nothing beats the sound of an A-10 coming to lay down death. No helicopter instills instant fear from a distinct engine sound and that lovely Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt. So yea, we just need more A-10s. Fleets of them, transport soldiers one at a time in them. Worth it.

What a boomer
youtube.com/watch?v=2N2a-kAvmRo

That's utter bullshit, user.

>Except Apaches had to return to base after taking SMALL ARMS ground fire during the second Iraq war.
A lot of small arms. Dude, A FUCKING LOT. They essentially flew into clouds of lead and still managed to remain airborne, when they RTBed, they were beaten to shit, holes everywhere.

Are you gonna make us post photographs of Dresden burning through the night?

Amusing to come back to see any replies and find that claim.

Unfortunately, no, that isn't me.

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Do you even NOE, bro?

160th was doing fob defense?

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20mm may not hit as hard as 30mm, but those dudes are definitely dead or near to it.

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can we take a moment to appreciate m113 platforms?
those are some useful little fuckers

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Oh no....

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You'd think with the gigantic fucking yams they grow that Africans would make drones out of them. Just hollow the fuckers out, attached propellers and BAM, yam drone.

But 800 cruise missles would destroy those ground based AA defenses. America is going to put HE everywhere before the troops ever arrive

we don't have that capability today, and we didn't have that capability in the 1980s. Saddam is not analogues to the soviets

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During the coldwar my dad was tasked with destroying bridges and putting down/destroying roads etc to stop the russians if theyd come. During excercises it happened multiple times that he'd get the order to blow a bridge before the friendly tanks made it back. He told me that one time an accompanying officer who was in command of the tanks was with him and when my dad got the order to get ready to blow the bridge the officer completely lost it and put his (unloaded) uzi to his head screaming at him to wait till his tanks made it back. shit was fucked

Was it an uzi or a grease gun? Tank crews were issued m3s until the 90s.

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That guy wasnt a tankcrew member but a higher officer who carried an uzi.

Almost entirely impossible, but there is no reason that guy should have had an uzi. They weren't even directly owned by the Army, and He probably would not have flaunted it in a war game. You don't get to pick your guns like that. It is more likely that your old man was mistaken.

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You do realize that the UZI was standard equipent in several europan armies at the time dont you?

Keep in mind, I'm not doubting the overall story, just the Uzi part.
I had a friend who was in an atomic demolition team. His job was to jump behind the Soviets and plant nukes at major crossroads and railhubs. He's told me some pretty crazy stories about Germany in the cold war.

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Which nation was your father from? Was this in Germany?

Im not that guy you responded to earlier, but there was constant NATO exercizes that involved multiple membes at that time too, so he could be from anywhere. What matters is where the tank company CO was from.

cute

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both my dad and that commander were dutch. the uzi was standard issue for them.

also yes in germany. they were stationed there in their sector.

Got it

>competent peer to peer force
404 force not found

Checked

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the S-67 is porn

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A fine looking bird. Conter rotation is cool

How so? I stated a short excerpt of my personal experience and then made a joke.

they also provided an invaluable and important service that made them powerful force multipliers

and while vulnerable to small arms, they are able to use the terrain and tacticas to mitigate the threat

yes we can

>RIP ADATS

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Against even poorly equipped conventional forces, they fare pretty poorly, even the Iraqis beat them in 2003.

>they fare pretty poorly, even the Iraqis beat them in 2003.
their performance was the opposite of poorly, with them acting as force multipliers and surviving in a battlefield filled with numerous AA weapons

This makes me happy I decided to fly Apaches over some cargo or utility bullshit.

They performed well in operations where they had support from ground forces. When used alone, they lost dozens.

>They performed well in operations where they had support from ground forces
>why does aircraft perform most successfully when used in a combined arms assault rather then deployed as a singular weapon without support

thats like saying tanks dont work without infantry and we should just replace tanks with jets
or saying your hammer is useless without nails

It's almost as if you are supposed to combine arms

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Obviously, but the military at least one time stupidly used them on their own and this resulted in high casualties for the Apache force.

but the fact remains that attack helicopters were seen as an indispensable and integral source of firepower that can act organically in support of ground troops and that they are extremely vital in any conflict, conventional or otherwise

Nevertheless, they're far more vulnerable than conventional aircraft, which is why they're mostly used for scouting roles now rather than decisive engagements.

>which is why they're mostly used for scouting roles now
CAS is the primary reason people bring out attack helicopters due to their ability to act from small airbases, good linger time, lower operational cost in comparison to jets, precision, and potent and versatile load out

Against unconventional forces, they're very good for that, but since the botched Karbala raid, the US military has been very hesitant to use attack helicopters directly in such a role.

those traits are universally good against any foe, regardless of threat

Threat matters when its something as expensive as an attack helicopter. Even if you do a lot of damage before the helocopter goes down, suicide attacks are dumb. Iraq took more than a dozen helicopters out of action in that raid in exchange for a few tanks and AA guns, they lost a lot less than the US did in that fight, which is why there was a change in tactics.