I got a question for the few israeli kommandos around and guys who have worked with the IDF,
how true are all the claims about the IDF being one of the most professional and best trained militaries of the world you hear regularly actually?
Are they really that good or is it mostly legacy reputation from stomping arab militaries during the cold war?
Israeli Defense Forces
Joshua Morales
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Hudson Reed
I would assume a mix. I mean everyone has to serve, and when you get conscription quality goes down.
Mason Powell
>military reliant on canned tuna MRE’s, and deployment to a “wall” security position.
>best trained and most professional
Pick exactly one.
Luke Garcia
We're a conscript army so that alone should give you an idea. Yes there are some super effective and professional units. There's also a shit ton of losers and slackers and just generally terrible units as well that make us look like the Soviet Army without the hangover. Women are mostly shit and really do just prance around taking Instagram pics. No the ones you see a lot are not the majority, and yes the ones you see are ultra thots. The Army is heavily politicized and I personally hate dealing with Palestinians. Not because they're muslims but because they're annoying as fuck and loud and consistently make trouble. At the same time Israeli settlers are a bunch of fuckwads who do the same thing. They antagonize each other and I have to play referee. It's all so tiresome
Mason Perry
We had an IDF user tell us a few days ago.
Zachary Wood
It's a bit of a meme
Jacob Johnson
>how true are all the claims about the IDF being one of the most professional and best trained militaries of the world you hear regularly actually?
Definitely false. The IDF has declined dramatically in overall quality and readiness since the 80s. There are still elite units on par with other developed nations, but most people are conscripts who don't want to be there and don't take it seriously. The IDF has also transitioned further away from being a legitimate military and now functions largely as a quasi-police/border patrol force. Those are two very different things and it's hard to do both well.
>Are they really that good or is it mostly legacy reputation from stomping arab militaries during the cold war?
Reputation and propaganda.
Isaiah Jackson
Many Arabs consider the IDF to have one of the worst infantry in the region, or at least less experienced and motivated than the regulars of Hezbollah, Hamas, Kurds, SAA the Iranians and IS. They often deride the Jews and say that they only inflict more casualties because of their material advantage. The Arabs assure themselves of this over the internet.
The average Israeli conscript certainly is less impressive than his forebears from the 1960s or even the 1980s, being a millennial basedboy working tech and office jobs instead of a hardy kibbitznik. This is why Breaking The Silence is so prevalent among this generation of Israeli soldiers compared to the occupation of Lebanon 1982-2000 (who were pussier than the generation from 1948-73), they have become weaklings and faggots, infected with liberalism.
Israeli infantry also receive the dregs of the Israeli conscription class, the best go the the Air Force, paratroopers, Golani, tanks, in that order.
Adam Wilson
t. jobnik
Jeremiah Cox
Lmao, IDF got one of their tanks destroyed by 70iq sandniggers this week.
Hunter Nelson
>From the old ARRSE wiki entry on the IDF:
>Has proved itself repeatedly to be a highly effective army with excellent leadership in the defence (sometime pre-emptively) of Israel's borders but suffers really badly when politico's use it for 'peacekeeping' or riot control.
>Operates under a 10 eyes for an eye policy, ie don't piss them off or they'll get you, your family, your pets, your neighbours and their pets and then bulldoze the block into pancakes for good measure. This has done nothing to stop retaliatory terrorist attacks and in fact only makes it so much worse.
>It also has done nothing for morale which is in the toilet these days. Resentment is fierceist against being sent to the Occupied Territories purely to defend the insanely right-wing ultra-Zionist fundies, whom successive governments have encouraged to aggressively disport themselves thereabouts (tax-free). A tiny but vociferous minority of conscripts not only support these Bible-is-my-real-estate-guide shitbags but have signed up precisely so as kickstart their righteous claim to some old guy's olive groves. These cnuts are easily recognised by their crocheted skullcaps and their Brooklyn/ Golders Green/ Montreal/ Jo'burg accents
How true is the excerpt above? Especially the latter part?
James Flores
I find this post authentic and heterosexual
Blake Lee
They're a largely conscript army consisting of 18-20 year olds who are only going to put in their two years. If they didn't have western support and equipment they would have been wiped off the map by now. Krav maga and most of the shooting and tactics that are exported are bullshit that was designed to keep 18-20 year olds from accidentally killing themselves or teammates and not immediately getting filled in. Only in the past few years did they implement a minimum age in their SOF units.
Tl;dr no
Lucas Gomez
>masters of media and manipulation, literally lying about everything 24/7
>their military is the best in the world
I could not imagine anything worse than being a shekelstein conscript, kvetching about the heat while watching the roasties in your unit fuck niggers.
Ian Johnson
>military reliant on canned tuna MRE’s
Link?
Kevin Sanders
Andrew Thomas
Nope.
David Adams
>>Has proved itself repeatedly to be a highly effective army with excellent leadership in the defence (sometime pre-emptively) of Israel's borders but suffers really badly when politico's use it for 'peacekeeping' or riot control.
Mostly right
>Operates under a 10 eyes for an eye policy
Very, very situational. Only ever done when someone really pisses off command (like the suicide bombing+kidnapping of a soldier during a humanitarian ceasefire that caused the IDF flatten the surrounding in attempt to cut them off), when it proven to have unproportional long-term benefits such as bulldozing houses of terrorists that actually killed (nowadays it's just braking non-supporting walls on only one floor) as deterrence or in special cases such as with Black September where it was a case of "they murdered our athletes, so deconstruct the organization top to bottom: from founder to the accountant and even shoot the pizza guy that didn't sell them out".
>don't piss them off or they'll get you, your family, your pets, your neighbours...
The furthest extent of "collective" punishment is the house demolition thing, and even that in only extreme cases and when the family promotes the guy as a martyr.
>This has done nothing to stop retaliatory terrorist attacks and in fact only makes it so much worse
Wrong. Israeli military and gov are nothing if not pragmatical, which what led to the demo solution in the first place, and why it would be abandoned if it wasn't effective at preventing blown-up bodies in the streets.
>morale which is in the toilet
Moral is mostly fine, I say this because I was on the low-end of moral so I know how people around me were. Moral is mostly hurt from the other side, with ROE prohibiting from shooting back at ID-ed and armed terrorists cause it's bad PR (every 19yo with a Kalach is reported as a unarmed dindu youth). Moral is as good as it usually gets in peacetime in a dominating military.
Brody Gonzalez
>Resentment ... against... sent to the Occupied Territories... to defend the insanely right-wing ultra-Zionist
Not really.
1. No one calls them "occupied territories"- that's deemed a radical left terminology.
2. "Zionist" basically synonyms with "patriotic"- so protecting "ultra Zionists" invokes less antagonism than it would protecting some American flag-waving redneck for an American soldier.
3. "Judea and Smaria", how most normal people call it, is the most action packed area, where soldiers often open their eyes to both the fact that Arabs are humans after all, and the fact that they're a bunch of barbarians. Most people are trying to get stationed there, while Border Police, the ones doing most patrolling there, not the military, have over 100 candidates per spot.
4. You might be referring to fringe organizations such as "Braking Silence", about which the national consensus is that they're a bunch of anti-Israeli liars, which is what forces them to target mostly international audiences to have at least some traction.
The rest of what it says sounds like shit coming out of the mouth, even for me.
Jackson Reyes
dairy and meat user, alot of Jews don't keep kosher when they eat the IDF feels it needs to, so alot of IDF soldiers get deliver when they are in the field or on a check point somewhere
Aiden Ross
You forgot the olives to go with the canned tuna
Nolan Carter
Someone has the photoshoped version were they removed the stains please?
Evan Jones
>The furthest extent of "collective" punishment is the house demolition thing, and even that in only extreme cases and when the family promotes the guy as a martyr.
You were probably not born yet, but collective punishment was widely used during the first Intifada. Palestinian protesters got their houses bulldozed, Palestinian workers were banned from passing checkpoints, shop owners got their goods seized and farmlands were bulldozed and/or seized. Maybe now it’s rare, but it wasn’t during the early 1980s.
Michael Brooks
>BLM in Israel
Holy shit these people are literally surrounded by their enemies and they have people on the inside trying to weaken their resolve and their politicians are ok with this
Not even the fucking jews are safe
Joshua Walker
>Not even the fucking jews are safe
Jews are getting (((jewed))) too, what a time to be alive.
Charles Clark
lol no. I mean, sure, there are units, namely the various elite special forces, that are top tier by western standards. The average conscript, however, is merely good; he's somewhat comparable to American troops, probably even on similar level with the more competent Euro counterparts, but he's still no match in training and experience terms to the average marine- simply due to much smaller budget and way shorter service time.
It's as good of a conscription module as you can get, trash either getting filtered out of the system or tunneled to trash POG work while stars are monitored from early high school to be assigned to the most appropriate units, but it's still a conscription system in a modern, western-like country which limits service to 3 years tops for anyone not choosing career path.
Sure, it could be argued that "it's no brainier to defeat Arabs", but nonetheless, being under equipped, surrounded, outmanned and outgunned and still coming on top is still an impressive feat by all in all respects. But that's past glory, which is great for enthusiasts and for dick measuring. Nowadays, this image is maintained via world-class, home grown technological superiority, often renowned methods and doctrines (and no, nothing "best in the world", cause no such thing) and large scale hands-on experience many soldiers get (be it POG intell analyzes, advance SigInt or combat experience)- which is not nearly as glorious as BTFO-ing all the Arabs so hard that they're still butthurt and in denial about it to this day, but it does help with maintaining solid image of a flawed but pragmatic, experienced and effective force. And image that I, as a biased party, would claim to be mostly representative of reality.
Josiah Wilson
Actual Israel user here
Ground forces are meh, lots of dumb useless conscript fags. We rely heavily or air artillery and tanks to make up for the weaknesses in infantry. In a conventional war they’d be able to blow away any of our neighbors but the asymmetric stuff is tough
Ground forces were peak strength in 70s/80s and indeed world class back then. We got lazy and overly focused on counterrorism in the 90s and 2000s. After Lebanon 2006 things started to improve.
Hudson Cox
fake
Nathan Ross
it's footage from the video game ARMA 3 man.
Last IDF tank loss was 13 years ago.
Noah Jones
your average hezbollah volunteer will be better at infantry asymmetric warfare than your average IDF conscript but the Arabs pretty much masturbate this meme too much. Even in 2006 Hezbollah took a 8:1 loss against the IDF. If they were better man to man this wouldn't happen.
Liam Jenkins
Conscripts are shitty as conscripts tend to be, the volunteer/special units are pretty good.
Really is a simple answer.
Owen Evans
IDF's main weakness is it has mediocre infantry due to issues typically associated with conscript armies. Air force is still world-class not just in tech but also training/professionalism and they try to make up for it with that.
Now that the IAF has accepted women combat pilots though their standards might dip like it did for the USAF.
Jonathan Collins
You know what's shit and entirely overblown? Mossad. I visited the US and was legit shocked by how many people think those chucklefucks are some super deadly elite ninja units. Every Mossad dude I've met was a pencil pushing faggot. Their operators are good but nothing on the level its played up to in the USA. weird stuff. Also, best HUMINT comes from the Army and they're on par with the US or UK so let that sink in for any veteran anons from those armed forces. A shit ton of Intel is from drones and SIGINT.
t. Ex IDF grunt
Kevin Nelson
Mossad is small and underfunded. It has about 2,000 employees. Part of its abilities are deliberately hyping up themselves as being everywhere and capable of doing anything
Ironically Jow Forums and this board feed into that, making Mossad behind literally everything and having an army of paid shills to defend it online instantly.
Jeremiah Jenkins
>might
I think you mean inevitably
Luis Gonzalez
It's almost like they're not a monolithic hive-mind or something.
Jordan Hughes
That's just what a shill would say
David Perry
True, wasn't born then yet, still know more about it than most people that lived in that period because I actually bothered with reports, data and literature- as well as knowing to deduct some stuff from personal experience with the same systems that were present then and by interacting with both high and low level decision makers from that period. That said, I'm not arrogant enough to proclaim myself an all-knowing expert or something, so please do call me out on BS, I love being proven wrong.
So about this:
1. That was decades ago. Not that it doesn't matter and doesn't have an effect to this day, sure, but we judge policy and situation based on relevant current decisions and actions, not on stuff from the previous century that might or might not effect some aspects of the current situation. Otherwise, no discussion about WW2 would ever get passed the bloody sandwich.
2.
>protesters got their houses bulldozed
Protesters? I find it hard to believe, simply because it's extremely inefficient in both resources coast and operational effectiveness. Afaik, you'ed have to be a rather peaceful protester armed with a smoking AK to get this kind of treatment
>Workers were banned from passing checkpoints
and they still do whenever some shmock attempts to blow up a bus or shoot-up a family in their home, mainly getting barred from entering Israel-proper (no worse than Mexican on the US border, really), until whoever did it is caught (ie it's a tactical decision, not some random punishment, and such it was during 1st Intifada as well).
>farmlands were bulldozed and/or seized
On that I straight out call bullshit. Wasn't really done during the retaliation-ops golden days, and defiantly wasn't done during the 80's.
Cooper Garcia
>Gilad Shalit was kidnapped in 2006
Holy shit, I suddenly feel much older than I should.
Nicholas Peterson
>Jews drink their own koolaid, jeopardizing their security
No surprise, they basically did the same thing in Europe with Refugees Welcome and now the last of the Holocaust "survivors" in France are getting murdered by North Africans and Turks.
Isaac Hall
I retract all my claims and statements in in favor of bit too pessimistic due to understandable butthurt, so it should a pinch of salt, but it's at least 70% true nonetheless.
Jaxson Evans
bump