5.56x45 vs 7.62x39

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Holy shit someone is going to die if you shoot them with either fuck off idiots. Stop min maxing this shit like it's OSRS

ok listen here nigger normie faggot.

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The only reason you wouldn't die if I shot you with a 7.62x39 is that your fat rolls would stop it

What a weak round then

7.62 has such small cavities compared to 5.56

I know this is a bait thread / made by a retarded noguns, but i'll bite anyway.

>muh wound canals
Is a fucking meme. A straight shot with 5.56 will kill you just as dead as 7.62. The difference is, one of those can kill you through a brick wall.

I've rubbed one out at every place I have worked except one. I want to go back there part time just to do it and then quit.

Doesn't 5.56 need a 20 inch barrel to properly fragment?

>le cavitation maymay
Bro science at its best

Low weight + high velocity = proper fragmentation
The 5.56 can rotate too quickly in a 20 inch barrel and essentially spin itself apart if the twist isn’t properly calibrated to the barrel length.

> He will never pop some guy in the lung and then sit back to let him continue shooting at you, content innthe knowledge that your superior wound cavity has assured your oppenents death within mere minutes.

If .243 can't vaporize a 58gr bullet with 1-in-10 twist at nearly 4000fps, how does a 5.56 do it with 55gr in a 1-in-7 at only 3000?

>user doesn't even understand basic terminal ballistics, the post
Just sad.

>that temporary cavity in your asshole after you make a huge poopy

no, it needs to surpass a velocity threshold unique to the bullet youre using. a longer barrel makes for a higher muzzle velocity and therefore extends the range a bullet can reliably fragment.
Commonly accepted thresholds:
>55gr M193 @ 2700 fps
>77gr TMK @ 1800 fps
>Nearly every HPBT regarded for fighting use @ 2250 fps

>5.56
Stop being a fag and get something in 7.62x51 or better.

>7.62x51 or better
so 5.56?

Is it ever NOT?

That smaller, but permanent cavity after you blast diarrhea at over 2200 fps.

Because .243 is larger than .224 you silly goose

It was sort of a competition to see who could jerk off in every Porto potty on the FOB first.

Ok retard. Let me shoot you in the gut with my AK and see how you feel

Notice how this is 7.62x39 vs 5.56x45 7.62x51 is undoubtedly superior to both of these in certain scenarios

>ok dude I have no argument because I’m a low iq boomer who believes muh bigger round is better so how bout yuh stand there in a hypothetical situation and let me shoot ya wit it hurr-durr
7.62 fag trying to cope with a shit round that plummets in effectiveness past 50 yards

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Yea but muh .338 lapoopuh hur dur lmafo

here's an idea. have guns that shoot both. its literally the most american thing, like carrying a 45 main, 9mm in the back and a .38 on your ankle just like an american is supposed to.

I shoot 7.62x51. Get fucked with your weak bullshit.

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Why the actual fuck did this thread continue past this point? That's the answer. Full stop. Everyone go home.

Hey friendo. I am curious about how an AR-10 holds up structurally and the rate of fire. How do you like it?

Love my SR-762, I don't know about other AR-10s, I definitely wouldn't go cheap with one, mine is a short stroke piston setup with a cold hammer forged chrome lined barrel, chrome plated piston, operating rod, bolt and bolt carrier with specific bolt carrier and upper reinforcements for "carrier tilt" associated with piston ARs, specifically AR-10s. She runs like a champ, I can't say enough good things about this gun

But 7.62 actually has better flesh penetration than 5.56 because it's heavier and slower. So use 7.62 against fatties and 5.56 for everything else

Have you chrono'd your shit? Because I gauranfuckingtee you that your muh 556 isn't the advertised velocity. We've had this fucking thread twice today already.

Cheap lake city 55gr fmj goes ~3100 fps out of my 16” and around 3220-3240fps out of my 20” barrel, so yes muh 5.56 is going that fast

No where in the thread is the 7.62x51 mentioned and there isn’t any argument against it so why bring it up

Thanks, probably going to get one. I like your whole rig.

>being this new

It was here

>Thread about terminal ballistics of common "combat" cartridges
>Lol 7.62 is sooo stupid just shoot em with a smaller boolit for speed
>Lol 7.62 boolits can't go fast

>WHY ARE YOU POSTING ABOUT A (((FAST))) 7.62 BULLET????

Good luck mate, they are discontinued, luckily my local shop still had one in stock. The only issue is that the handguard is there to stay. I like the handguard, except the only way to put attachments on is by screwing on tall ass rail sections, but that doesn't bother me too much, there's not a whole lot I want on the front of this gun.

Are you actually using 55 gr for defense? Target is fine. But that's really stupid for anything else. 68 or 75/77 grain is what's being used in serious roles, and those definitely aren't hitting those numbers. You could run the chrono yourself, and you should to verify, but I'll tell you right now, I did. And it's why I switched. With the higher grain weights, it's in the exact same boat as x39, just with less mass and a lower sectional density.

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My offer still stands. And since the effectiveness plummets at 50 yards feel free to stand at 500 instead.

>while the 5.56 stays above 2,200 fps until ~300 yards

Barely. What's more interesting is at 400 yards its basically a 22LR pill at 100 yards

To dunk on small caliber baby boys

Based

>Mfw

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And at 400 yards 7.62x39 has hit the ground with its rainbow trajectory

Also you're factually wrong.
5.56 at 400 yards is still faster and transfers more ft/lbs of energy than .22 at 100 yards. Dont be silly.

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>and yet another caliber war thread

>7.62x39 has hit the ground
It's like you can't understand trajectories and compensating for drop. It's a lot, but it can be compensated for.
>still faster and transfers more ft/lbs
What? What the fuck is your basis for that?

Fuck off retard.

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>.22lr doesn’t even exceed 1700 fps try again

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Shoulda rephrased as in nowhere in OPs post is 7.62x51 mentioned

7.62x39 cartridge can’t go fast, 7.62x51 can go fast

Cut him some slack. Lots of Jow Forums follows the military only. They aren't aware of domestic duty or hunting loads.

Even in higher bullet weights 5.56 stays above 2,200 fps in the 200-250 yard range, try to cope more faggot, nice of you to post a pic with no source

How fucking retarded can you be like seriously dude are you moronic? 5.56 at 400 yards is at ~1900 fps 450 ft/lbs with a 55 gr bullet, 40 gr .22 lr velocitors are 1100 fps ~110 ft/lbs at 100 yards. Please neck yourself with how much of a retarded statement that was. By using your stupid fucking logic I can claim 7.62.x39 at 300 yards is a 7.62 tokarev at the muzzle because 7.62x39 reaches ~1600 fps by then but the only difference is the heavier bullet of 124gr vs 85gr

It's not no source, dipshit. It's fucking Chuck Hawks. It should been immediately obvious, and even if it wasn't, the argument of SD should have clued you in. chuckhawks.com/sd.htm
>hurr my gold dot
I'm fucking aware of it, but it doesn't change the sectional density of the round. Read actual information other than stuff that's put out by the people trying to sell you the shit.

Wow nice gain of 150 fps while having to go down to an anemic weight of 21 grains still no where near 2,200

55 gr at .157 sd vs 60gr at .171sd vs 68gr at .194 sd, wow such difference not like the extra .037 sd from 68gr to 55gr is gonna make any measurable difference in how fast you kill a human, cope harder faggot

>I've been presented with information and chosen to purposely misrepresent it and learn nothing.
Cool story.

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You are either poor or a faggot but more than likely both

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What is your point though? Do you seriously doubt a 5.56 55grs ability to kill a human? If you, you need to re evaluate whatever sources you have been reading

Don't be an ass, dude. You want serious work? Lots of agencies procure case after case of 62gr gold dots, fusions, and tap for their patrol rifles because the 69/75gr HPBTs aren't great for auto glass and bonded bullets are, SD be damned.

Holy shit you can read

Lies. Those hornady guys aren't as smart as you think they are, they are talking in simple terms to make it easy for idiots like you to understand.

No. Ak rounds cant do the slightest fucking thing against targets behind cinderblocks unless they have steel cores.

Youd have to mow down the wall and then shoot your target.

Of course it can. .22 shorts can kill, however unlikely. 5.56 never should have gotten the prominence it has, though. It was a compromise for a specific use case, and it doesn't apply to you, me, or even cops.
>It's cheap
Fine, I won't argue this, it is. But that's it's whole job. To be cheap and lethal enough for government work. Whether we like to admit it or not, the Russians are ahead of us in one single thing, and that's small arms development. The IAR we just got, it's the Russian RPK. They're saying 5.45 is a dead end. And it's capable of loadings ever so slightly edging out the 5.56. Not current loadings, but as far as potential of the round, it's greater.
They're dumping it, and going back to 7.62x39, with better bullet design. If these cartridges no longer fill their intended use case for the people who ALREADY chose it as a compromise between logistics and lethality, what makes you think it's still better for you, the guy who needs it to service a handful of targets, extremely effectively, once?

Again, it's a compromise though. There's no reason a bonded bullet in another caliber wouldn't outperform it. The propagation of 5.56 is textbook institutional inertia applied to the entirety of the military industrial complex we've built. Which, I love that industry, like a distant father, but it has it's faults. "We already have all these government surplus'd m16s. How do we maximize their potential as cheaply as possible?" And we've been snowballing from that for 50 years. And it likely will continue for 50 more.

>They're dumping it, and going back to 7.62x39
Why lie?

that thing looks sexy af

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It's a post chock full of bullshit. What's one more lie?

I'm not lying. You're just not paying attention. tass.com/defense/1043299
They have solicitations out for options on new bullet designs now, specifically that punch armor better. Kalashnikov has contracts to manufacture something like 150,000 new AK-15s. Which very clearly demonstrates it's more than just talk. They're making shifts for a peer to peer war footing.

I'm waiting for a real rebuttal. Tell me how 5.56 didn't trickle down because the military picked it up. Highlight for me the massive differences in design and doctrine between the IAR and the RPK. Please point out how an entire industry will move away from 5.56 to any new round, because obviously manufacturers want to pitch all that paid for tooling and switch to something else.

Every round is a compromise. 5.56 will kill the fuck out of someone at any distance I care to shoot to. Someone isn't going to argue "hey man, I just wanted you to know, my lungs are liquefied, most of my heart is in the hallway, but one of the fifteen rounds you put in me got deflected by my spine after severing every bone in my arm, if you were using a 400gr softpoint, that wouldn't have happened"

Why stop at the 7.62x39 compromise? Why not 7.62RFN? Why not 8mm Mauser? Why not 338 Lapua?

Also AK a shit. .300blk is 7.62x39 but with modern bullets.

>armor piercing
>7.62x39
Nope. They're going to develop something new, not go backwards.

>There's no reason a bonded bullet in another caliber wouldn't outperform it.
Sure. DEA had some 6.8 LWRCs for that.

> textbook institutional inertia
That's not Mr. Burns steepling his fingers, that's a limitation of budgets. Switch a major municipal PD over to .300 blk. Every officer has to ditch his 6920 for a new whatever, has to rezero, has to recertify on it, you have to ditch all that expensive duty ammo, and if you're lucky enough to provide frangible/fmj range ammo , you have to buy god knows how much of that. And that's not even considering the audit when city manager wants an ROI estimate for the switch.

You have to prove a hell of a lot of improvement to get those wheels moving. Fuck man, most PDs don't even have trunking let alone encryption. Their way more worried about that then a bunch of rifles that spend most their lives lockes up in the car.

>Tell me how 5.56 didn't trickle down because the military picked it up.
>I said one thing correct, so everything I said is correct!
But that's not how it works, retard.
>Highlight for me the massive differences in design and doctrine between the IAR and the RPK.
Ok, we'll start with design. The M27 almost makes sense, the RPK is retarded. That was easy.
>doctrine
Not everyone gets an RPK.
That was also easy.

Agreed, on all counts. And that's exactly what institutional inertia is. It works fine, I guess. So there's no reason to overcome the challenges presented by switching to something marginally better. The issues caused by not doing it, aren't enough to outweigh the cost of fixing any deficiencies therein. If you can keep something limping along, in a large organization with a tight budget, that's exactly what will happen.
If you can't see the massive similarities, I can't help you. What will happen is they'll make an m4-ish variant of the IAR too, and then you'll have the rpk and ak set up just the same, albeit backwards in terms of development. It's just early in the adoption cycle yet. I mean come on. 12 fucking pounds? Full length pic rails in 2019? I love picatinny, but I wouldn't saddle a grunt with that fucking weight hanging out there.

>IAR
stop calling it that.
>What will happen is they'll make an m4-ish variant
wow dude you should like, go work at the IAR factory making micro IARs

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But the version for the Marines is a trumped up 416, specifically designated the M27 IAR. It would be like me referring to an m16a4 as an m4a1. You could. And be sorta right, ish. But you'd also be a fucking retard.

>It would be like me referring to an m16a4 as an m4a1.
You're right! But we're not talking about the m27 in this case, but a theoretical shortened, carbine version of it. Much like an m4a1 compared to a m16. If only that existed. I've copied and pasted your previous statement in case you forgot, you seem to be having a hard time here.
>What will happen is they'll make an m4-ish variant of the IAR
That'd be an HK416. Which exists.

I know what the problem here is though. You're a nogunz retard who only knows what an IAR is because of videogames. Now please just fuck off, I'm really sick of arguing ballistics with someone who has never shot a rifle.

>noguns
It's all so tiresome. It wouldn't be called the 416 if it were adopted, retard. And the Marine corps would put their own brand of autismo jizz all over it, just like they just did in creating the IAR. In conclusion, go be a nigger somewhere else.

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>it'd have a different name and maybe minor differences!
Wow, it's ok you didn't know the gun already existed, it's fine man.

what about 5.45

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What exactly have you posted that hasn't been unintentional bait, simply because you're so ignorant it's unbelievable?
>thinks there are no doctrinal differences between M27 and RPK, despite m27 being standard issue to all marines
>claims Russia is going back to 7.62x39, for armor penetration of all things, something the round is terrible at being both slow and large
>spouts nonstop fuddlore and going off on tangents unrelated to your original arguments solely in search of being right for a change, rather than supporting your beliefs that are actually being questioned

buy a gun, shoot it, you'll understand things better.

Are you the last person to realize that the M27 IAR is the new USMC service rifle and that the whole IAR concept was just a backdoor way of adopting it? The only "massive similarities" it has were on the completely pointless solicitation requirements they used to bypass any competitive bid. They don't have plans on making a smaller version, they're giving it to everyone with the possibility of a DMR version which is basically the same thing with a longer handguard and a different optic. They didn't issue RPKs to everyone and they didn't promote the use of "suppression by engaging with precision fire" as the main way to use it for "automatic rifleman" purposes.
>bUT iZz HEAvY
They don't call them crayon eaters for nothing. HK just knows how to jingle keys in front of Marines (and to a lesser extent the entire DoD) better than everyone else.

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7.62x39mm has more energy and more momentum than 5.56x45mm up to 200, 300 yards. It’s very effective at destroying cover like cinderblocks and bricks. More energy means also more recoil. Effective range is lower than 5.56x45mm.
5.56x45mm does fragment, creating really nasty wounds, but only at a velocity > 2500 feet per second. It has a flatter trajectory, making it accurate at longer ranges, but unless heavy bullets are used it loses lots of effectiveness at those long ranges.
Here’s some good data: snipercountry.com/5-56-vs-7-62/

Finally, in term of accuracy the AK platform shouldn’t be underestimated.
Chinese AK iron sights up to 500m: m.youtube.com/watch?v=qFgyQuTVxpU&list=PLRAERgkjmiuPDotvvudtaQnp8JsxTGAZk&index=16
M4 iron sights up to 500m: m.youtube.com/watch?v=6QM2eFL_B2A&list=PLRAERgkjmiuPDotvvudtaQnp8JsxTGAZk&index=20
It’s only using an ACOG that the M4 could outshoot the Chinese AK: m.youtube.com/watch?v=iClA16wL60E&list=PLRAERgkjmiuPDotvvudtaQnp8JsxTGAZk&index=12
The M16 with iron sights outshot both: m.youtube.com/watch?v=OGHKD_X6-Rw&list=PLRAERgkjmiuPDotvvudtaQnp8JsxTGAZk&index=19

Instead of shitposting on Babylonian pottery forums, people should go out and train their skills.

>GRINDR
>ARSE MAN

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7.62 faggot trying to cope so hard