Irons or optics for home defense?

Your reading comprehension ain’t great. The premise was no trial and the assumption was people on /k seem pretty damn poor. If you’ve got a lot of money locked up despite being free and clear, what are you arming yourself with in the interim?

they are called red dots, they have zero magnification and unlimited eye relief so they can be used in a pinch with almost zero effort. Check them out some time.

Fuddstick for anything under 20 yards.

Pistol without looking down the sights, probably with one hand. Unless you're defending your 100 acre property or something.

because irons inside of a house are so hard to use.
you could have a store-bought no-sights ar15 and still hit an intruder in a house.
the main consideration is if it's dark in which case you have a flashlight. if you have a flashlight then the center should be approx where you're aiming to begin with.
nothing wrong with a red dot but acting like irons are going to hinder you here with a rifle is stupid
most people who use home defense shotties use irons and their spread isn't video-game tier, you still have to aim.

Did I say it would hinder you? did I say they were useless? Nope. I said they were obsolete and optics are better in pretty much every way so if you have the means it should be what you use.

If you need to look down the sights at anything below 10 yards you suck at shooting.

which is why LEO all use red dots on their service pistols, right user?
in close quarters a flashlight is gonna do all the work for you.
>irons are obsolete
your mama didn't beat you enough

okay Elmer, thanks for the advice.

Every rifleman instructor I have ever taken a class from has highly recommended a red dot alongside backup irons windowed.

The concern is that if you use any firearm of yours that you poured a lot of money into in a self defense situation, if there's a trial it could look bad for you - even if you're completely legally justified, and trial or not your gun could be in "evidence" aka the police sergeant's safe at home

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>backup irons

Have I traveled back in time to the 2000s?

what year is it for you?
we're in the 2000s for the next 980 years at least where im at

>durr leos dont use red dots
>durr flashlights will do all the work
Yeah I'm just gonna hope that irons and a flashlight will be good enough because I don't want to damage my pride. I don't want to take every advantage available to me oh no.
>durr I don't know what obsolete means
it means there is something that eclipses that item almost entirely in terms of functionality. It doesn't mean that the old item ceases to function or has no use, it means that there is a better item now and there is almost no reason to use the old item.

Not like it hurts to have them. Just throw them on and forget about them

this, you can literally have both so I don't know what the point of this thread is.

They pretty much all use them on rifles. And they're in the process of transitioning to optics on handguns too, so yeah. I'd say in 10 to 15 years that will also be standard.

>Hell, I’d be fine with cranking off half a mag of 5.56 no earpro in my house if that means not having me and my family murdered by three shitheads.
Yeah it also might mean that you end up shooting your family through the walls with your spastic magdump.

But it's stupid to concern yourself with "overpenetration" when your life is at fucking stake amirite?

im not telling you NOT to use a red dot.
but you're inflating the importance of them for home defense by fucking far.
>no reason to use the old item
like i said your mama should beat you bloody

im done though. red dots are fine but you act like not having them is a problem in this situation.

well right now even the big boys aren't rocking red dots on pistols and they treat the flashlight as their third eye. so until they actually do, that's moot.

if you don't have a painfully bright light on whatever you use, it might be a hard time for everyone involved.

Attached: obsolete.png (613x157, 16K)

>2019
>not having a budget AR-9 with a 33 round glock mag loaded with hollow points for home defense
wtf bro

You still didn't understand what I said, I said red dots were better, and if given the option it should be what you choose because they are better. Because that was the point of the thread you mongoloid.

>literally always optics if you can afford it.
irons are basically obsolete and should only be used as a backup on modern rifles.
your first post.

it's home defense. you're within 30ft of the target by the time you can see them almost always.
10yds.
untrained women make shots with irons at that distance and hit man sized targets with pistols
but k.

Why would you scoff at having a small advantage if you have the capability? there is no reason not to go with it but you are insisting that people should always be satisfied with irons just because

im saying it's negligible for home defense
you're ignoring literally every possible downside, namely the batteries dying.

thats ok though this is not going anywhere. i've no problem with red dots but for home defense it's not going to make or break the situation.

Flashlight.

this is the best answer.
t. guy arguing reddots aren't that impactful for home defense

That's why you have backup irons Jesus christ
What do you people have against aiming?

Aimpoints don't really die like eotech's do. I've been using mine every-other weekend for a year and it's still nice and bright.

Also OP I would recommend a compact acog if you have the money. It's essentially a red dot with tritium, fiber optics, and a 1.5x magnification.

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For indoors?
If you have a small house having optics probably isn't neccecary, just point fire.

>backup irons
i thought we were talking about pistols desu
>What do you people have against aiming?
flashlight is your third eye and where you're looking+aiming.
it's what they did well before red dots were even a thing and they still do it. they dont look down the sights or down a red dot as they clear the house cuz that's going to cause tunnel vision

pic is from vid, which is just the first room clearing youtube vid i got. but it has guys doign what im tlaking about. i wanted something w/ flashlights but that'd be shit to record anyway and these guys do it.
youtu.be/CzbgloZiYuk

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Not everyone can point shoot reliably. I'd rather know that I'm hitting something than think that I'm hitting something just to get fucked by Tyrone with his chrome 45

Yeah a lot of those guys looked like they were using they're eotechs.

oh my god. i wont lie i expected this
>A team of guys use their sights when stationary while others conduct actions
>while moving through the room they are not looking down their sights without someone else already on the target

the shitty fbi video from a year ago also has it but i avoided it because it's so shitty
youtube.com/watch?v=TfmUviERA4o

that one famous swat raid has great examples of it but it's longer. if you haven't seen it then maybe it'll be interesting. hard to get a good pic but when they go downstairs you really see it because it's actually dark.
youtu.be/wl3PG4LdYoU

flashlight best answer

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Why would you use anything other than a shotty for home defense.

what if I get into a gunfight with 20 men trying to invade my house for some reason

where were you when the shotgun mag thread was up?
obviously you get a shotgun with a magazine. you DO have a shotgun with detachable mags, don't you user?

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Then you're dead kiddo

Irons will serve you fine if you actually train with your gun, but that being said anyone who says that red dots aren't objectively superior in every possible way is just coping.

>30 rounds of 5.56 compared to 8 rounds in an extended 24 inch shotty
>5.56 penetrates less than buckshot
>almost all shotties don't have a rail for lights
:thinking:

What? Are you shitting me?

>5.56 penetrates less than buckshot
nooooooope

in some places this can be a potential problem. what i've been led to believe is super shitty states the courts will try to paint you as someone who WANTED to shoot the intruder from the get-go. So much so, you let it get to that point for the chance.
Evidence: Your kitted out weapon of war.

>30 rounds of 5.56 compared to 8 rounds in an extended 24 inch shotty

If you need more than 8 rounds to blow a away a few dudes then what the fuck are you doing, also buckshot is so much better to shoot at 2am when you wake the fuck up to bang bang crash and are still trying to figure out wtf is going on.

>5.56 penetrates less than buckshot
Yeah, no

>almost all shotties don't have a rail for lights
Either buy a shotty with a rail or use the advanced technology of duct tape

This is one of the reasons I think using an AR15 or any other modern military style rifle for home defense is a bad idea. You're much less likely to be prosecuted and/or convicted if you shoot somebody with an off the shelf pump shotgun with walnut stocks and a bead. It shouldn't be the case, but it is the case.

durr durr bedder da be judged than carried blah blah yeah but it's better to be neither.

combo of this

So you think that you're going to both be robbed by a three man team, and you're going to kill all three with five shots each which is extremely accurate for someone who just woke up in fear?

Let me guess, the robbers are all wearing black bandit masks and you'd blow the smoke off the end of the barrel once you're done, right?

Look it up retard.
Look it up retard. A shotgun proves nothing in home defense that an Ar can't do with less risk.

>Look it up
>The burden of proof is on you
>Despite literally everyone with a brain using a shotty to btfo home invaders rather than muh tacticool AR

Optics are always better if you can afford them IMO, but then irons are hardly inadequate or anything. I just prefer the simplicity of big ol glowy single focal point sights to irons, personally.
>youtube.com/watch?v=CiHHgjaR0TI
Maybe if you spent more time listening to people with real world experience instead of the newest flavor of the month tactical timmy you'd be less wrong when you opened your mouth.
>muh normal fragmenting rounds
Completely unreliable fragmentation when encountering common housing materials, when they don't fragment they act just like FMJ, which means massive overpenetration
>muh frangible/varmint 40gr JSP/HPs
More reliable fragmentation on common housing materials, they also don't penetrate near the FBI spec

5.56 is better than handgun rounds when it comes to overpenetration, but shotguns blow it out of the water while still offering way better terminal performance

Any test anybody ever did that shows 5.56 over-penetrates less than buckshot was biased to achieve that result by somebody who wanted to justify using an AR15 for home defense.

People want SO BAD to use their tacticool AR whenever they can.

>taking the bait
Thanks for the easy (You)'s

>pretending to be retarded
nope just actually retarded

Is this thread entirely populated by Eurofags or has Jow Forums officially reached /v/ levels of retardation?

ammoland.com/2019/02/houston-gunfight-as-deadly-as-ok-corral-home-owner-uses-ak47-in-self-defense/#axzz5lBupCPbC

Do you know the meaning of the word "obsolete" ? Apparently not.

I don't think a single person in the whole United States has been prosecuted for any home defense shooting involving people breaking into your home.

It all depends on the state you live in. Had 2 home defensive shooting in my time here in Georgia and both cases no charges were brought against the homeowner and their firearms were back in their possession within about 2 weeks. I think a lot of the whole “your gun will be gone” comes from states where gun laws are stricter or where there was more to the shooting than just home defense.

Whatever you can use effectively to eliminate the threat.

regressivism is "in" now.

cqc you dont really need to aim. be the rifle.

sneed

based

>Live someplace where you can legally get away with using an AR in defense of home
>Not also be living in a house in which any gun you have will not railgun its way from one corner to the other

Stop fucking missing. Drywall and 2x4s does not stop bullets well.

Asshurt tubefag detected

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neither
youtu.be/YiHgNXxIcuo

Circle dot

not him but if three dudes break into my house my dog will have woken me up by the time they are in the front yard/back yard and I think me with plates, helmet, dual NODs, and a supressed 300BLK with a PEQ can handle 3 dudes and possibly only use half a mag.

>which is why LEO all use red dots on their service pistols, right user?

More and more of them are actually. It's like the transition from revolvers to semi-autos ~30 years ago. The only reason they're not all using them yet is cost.

This

If you've got low, varying light, irons sure as hell are hard to use.

It comes from a significant portion of cops stealing from evidence lockers.

Well there was that guy that ambushed those people after they broke in for the fifth time or whatever. He only got convicted because he recorded himself executing one though.

EVERYONE IN THIS THREAD DEBATING SIGHTS ARE FUCKIN RETARDS IN A HOME DEFENSE SITUATION DON’T SPEND TIME LINING UP YOUR FUCKING SIGHTS LIKE YOU’RE AIMING TO SHOOT IT WILL BE UNDER 5 YARDS FUCKINGG POINT SHOOT WOTH YOUR FRONT SIGHT HOVERING ON THE TARGET IT WILL NOT MAKE A GODDAMM DIFFERENCE WHAT SIGHTS YOU HAVE AT THAT RANGE

>proactive home defense - optics
>reactive home defense - irons

based capslockiscruisecontrolforcool poster.

Yea that doesn’t happen. Your gonna have to show me stats that “Significant” portion of cops steal evidence before I believe that.

>April of 2019
>not having a Falkor Petra SBR in .300 winmag with a drop in auto sear and a bayonet
bro are you even trying

>Let me guess, the robbers are all wearing black bandit masks and you'd blow the smoke off the end of the barrel once you're done, right?
No. He's just seen the home invasion sequence in John Wick 1 and is planning to bury some weapons and Krugerrands in the concrete floor of his garage. Then it's off to the tattoo parlour

if you use proper ammunition 5.56 can have minimal overpenetration
fast light bullets tends to shatter when hitting things rather than going through like slower, heavier bullets

40x rifle scope so you can look at the person your shooting at in the eye pupil.

>He only got convicted because he recorded himself executing one though.
And moving the bodies.
And not reporting it to the authorities for a day.

Really wonder what he thought was going to happen.

Point shoot

HE'S TO FAST

What PEQ you using? Thinking about getting knockoff Russian peq since the extra weight shouldn't bug me much for what I'm using it for

*TOO

>flashlight
a red dot is going to be hard to use too if you can't see your target. you're just gonna see red dot.

I have an 870 Marine Mag pump with ghost rings. extremely low maintenance, no batteries, nothing to fail. It sits by my nightstand year in and year out. I believe, for me, a barricaded position with a 12ga is as good as it gets. If I had to leave the house (nearly 0% chance) The AR with an Eotech would have to come out of the safe.

peq4c on my 20 inch m16a4, L3 peq15 full power on my 16 inch and l3 peq 16 full power on my 10.5 300blk . Don't get a russian one, get a DBAL if you're on a budget. Also keep in mind that lasers work both ways, so if you're fighting someone with NV capability they can see you as soon as you hit the switch. I have an elcan spectre 1-4 that I can use passively with my NVGs for if I have to go against someone I think might have NV. On my 300 blk I have a xps-3 for the same reason.

Neither, instinct shooting at 25 yards or closer

really though, most times something goes bump in the night I grab my AR and go white light. It's usually a cat or racoon or something. If I hear human sounds I would 100% kit up, which take sme about 60 seconds to throw my PC over my head, put my helmet on, and switch my tubes on. My PEQ stays on dual Illum and i change batteries every 3 months. I also keep my bedroom door locked so it would take anyone trying to get in some time get into my house, then find my room, then get into my door. I have reasonable confidence I can be ready for a fight before anyone gets inside my house as my dog wakes me up by growling when something isn't right. He's a weird dog, he doesn't really bark unless its another dog or unless I'm not with him