From a family of antigun with extreme prejudice. Finally got my own place...

Yes. SKS are pretty good semi autos for ban states. No pistol grip, no detachable magazine, and barring the most collectable ones they'll all be under $1k. Or, you could get a Ruger PC carbine in compliant configuration. Have a mauser, too. There are lots of options for bolt action milsurp if that's your thing

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>”Just get an AR, bro”

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As rifles go I do have the Mosin, but a semiautomatic would be nice. I’m leaning towards the sks actually.
I like the idea but I imagine it would look a little bit silly on an ar, no offense if you have one
I would like an American service rifle. I was looking at M14’s but they seem very pricey for a nice one.

M14s are pricey, but not a bad option. The fightlight is surprisingly good looking

You can’t quite get a standard M1A in New York, though there are NY-legal versions of it that come kinda close. They’ll be way more expensive than a CMP Garand though.

If you want a practical rifle, I strongly recommend the PC Carbine as a good ban state option. They’re tough, reliable, accurate, and the takedown feature is really handy.

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Another question since you seem like you would know. I paid $500 for my rifle, all the parts match and the wood is all u cracked and in good shape and I looked down the bore and it looks good to me although I’m a newb I guess. Did I get ripped super bad?

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I’d also invest in a second, 18” barrel for that Rem 870. That makes it a great field/security combo.

I would say you paid a bit much for it but you didn't do terrible the Mosin is not a bad gun to star off with

NYs market is kinda fucked, but yea you overpaid by at least $100, and that's being generous. Unless, it's some rare model but that looks like a basic wartime 91/30 to me. But done is done so don't worry about it.

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So the difference between the M14 and M1 is that the M14 is in .308 and the M1 is 30-06 and that the M14 has a detachable box mag? Otherwise they’re roughly the same amount of gun handling/quality wise? Or nah
Actually a Smith and Wesson 916, barrel is not removable. He gave it to me having not been maintained for 50 years, so... should I bring it to a gunsmith or just oil it and go? Hahah

Did you treat the wood?
I’m pleased as punch with it so I guess I don’t mind.

>M14 and M1 is that the M14 is in .308 and the M1 is 30-06 and that the M14 has a detachable box mag? Otherwise they’re roughly the same amount of gun handling/quality wise?

That is correct (although there do exist some Garand rebarreled to .308).

Handling is pretty similar between them, but the M14 is slightly better balanced - it's got less wood up front compared to the Garand. The M14 can also be loaded with stripper clips, if it's got the guide installed (just ahead of the rear sight).

Most Garands will be USGI military surplus, whereas most M14s on the civilian market will be Springfield Armory commercial production. You'll get more predictable quality from the M14, but CMP does a pretty good job of vetting and refurbing its Garands before sending them to you.

I won't lie; you get jewed pretty hard for $500 for a plain jane Mosin 91/30. At least it's in great shape and all numbers matching, though.

I picked up two guns last week for $530: an Ishapore 2A in .308, and a Mosin Type 53 (Chinese carbine with bayonet), and I live in CA. I did get ripped pretty hard on an Inglis Hi-Power with mechanical issues, though.

Many collectors have a gun that they slightly regret buying overpriced, but it's better to make that mistake early on and know what to look for in the future. Check Gunbroker, Armslist, various forums, and your local classifieds to get an idea for market price; find a quality kitchen table FFL who'll do online transfers for you cheap.

Holy fuck my man you got jewed hard on a bubba job mosin. Big fucking oof. Worth maybe 150.

The M14/M1A is a successor to the M1 with a lot of improvements made. The biggest ones were full auto capability in the M14 (though that’s not a factor in the M1A, which is a civilian-legal, semiauto-only version of the M14), the box magazine, and a revision to how the gas system works, though there were a lot of small differences too. The Garand is fully NY-legal as-is with no modifications. If you wanted an M1A, though, you’d have to get a specific NY-legal version.

Keep in mind that the Garand is still a completely viable option as an SHTF rifle. A little old-school, sure, but it’ll do the job just fine. If S really did HTF, I wouldn’t feel the least bit under-armed if all I had was a Garand.

It isn’t bubba’d and it’s worth maybe $350 fair market value.

No, I haven't touched it but I think the shop mentioned the previous owner put a coat of BLO. he didn't sand or strip the original finish so I don't care too much. The SKS is just about your only cheap and common surp semi auto. If you're going to continue to be into milsurp I strongly recommend getting into reloading. Ammo costs will always be a problem.
Enfields, many mausers, arisakas, carcanos and M95s are still somewhat cheap. If you really want to get into milsurp, you might as well start there before they get pricey

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Really just whatever floats your boat if state laws allow for it

You’ll have to excuse Jow Forums - they have a weird relationship to the Mosin, where they’ve never gotten over the fact that they used to cost $70 back 20 years ago, so they think that’s what they ought to cost forever in the same way your Boomer grandma thinks movie tickets should still cost a quarter.

Bottom line is you overpaid a little, but not enough to get upset over.

That stock is sanded for sure, bubba done tried to pimp shine it

I checked out CMP, seems like a great way to get one. I’ll keep a lookout for a quality SKS too. I guess the Garand has a special cool factor for me which is part of it for sure.
Assuming bubba’d means modified somehow, no, it was in very good shape and nothing was modified. The bayonets number matches too, and I got all the little trinkets like strap and ammo pouch with it. And the guy gave me a box of ammo, guess he felt bad haha.
Good to hear I didn’t get utterly ripped

You can still buy milsurp in current-production cartridges (Ishapore 2A/2A1, FR-7/FR8, Israeli K98s in 7.62 NATO, Norwegian K98s in .30-06, etc.), but then you'd really be locking yourself out of a lot of interesting guns like this user mentioned.

I've legit never seen Arisakas, Carcanos, or Steyrs being fired at the range, so I can guarantee that you'd attract a lot of attention if you pulled up with one of those.

If you don't know the milsurp market don't comment on value

>The SKS is just about your only cheap and common surp semi auto
I’d disagree with that by emphasizing that if you’re willing to jump through the CMP’s minimal hoops, one of their Garands is a way better value right now. For maybe $150 more, you’re getting an objectively better rifle with way more long-term collector value.

That stock is sanded, my dude. That means bubba.

>Bottom line is you overpaid a little

Is $200 a little? A good condition 43 or 44 91/30, as run of the mill as you can get, is still like $300 max in today's market.

I picked up an antique 1942 VKT barreled Finn M91 on an 1896 Izhevsk receiver a few months back for $425 shipped.

I wouldn't say objectively better; I've fired both the Garand and the SKS. While the Garand loads easier and has way better sights, the SKS has much cheaper ammunition (unless Trump's successor decides to ban Russian ammo imports, in which case rip 7.62x39 guns), weighs a little less, is a little shorter, and has much less blast and recoil.

The Garand is still definitely the more attractive and iconic rifle for sure, though. They aren't making more of them in significant quantities; I'd spring the $750 shipped on a Service Grade from CMP while they still have ones to hand out.

Luckily, we're entering into the age of PPU having obscure surp cartridges available almost year round. I finally fired my M95 a few days ago and loved it. It's only a matter of time until PPU takes up making 6.5 jap, they already make the brass. The downside is that all the surp that was once upon a time unshootable will all the sudden become shootable, and everyone will want to buy it.

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1) You can’t tell if it was from those pics.
2) You don’t understand what “bubba’d” means and just throw that word around the way people throw around “Boomer” and “fudd” on this board.

Great advice from both of you, I’m going to look into the CMP thing. Regardless of the quality of the rifles I’m attached to the idea of having at least one classic American gun in my collection.
Maybe you’re right, and maybe that would matter to a serious collector, but that won’t change how it shoots. I don’t care.

To clarify, not ‘regardless’ of quality. I’m just saying that even if it costs a bit more or one is a bit better it’s a factor for sure.

That ammo is still pretty expensive though; PPU's 7.5 French is like $0.75 a round; their 8x56R is over a Washington a shot.

I was pretty happy to see Wolf making .303 British, but it has a reputation for keyholing like a bitch. Wish we could still get imports from China, I'd bet a bandolier of 7.62x39 ammo that they still have the tooling and machinery for making 6.5 and 7.7 Jap ammo (as they did in the early 50s for the Korean War, in their captured Type 38s and 99s) holed up in a warehouse somewhere.

Fair enough. Ammo becomes the price issue after that though. 20 CPR for Wolf 7.62x39 and about 60 CPR for modern garand stuff, but I guess reloading can bring that down. After i get a Type 46 and a nagant revolver, the CMP will be next on my list. I think this NYanon is a bit money conscious though, so I'd say SKS>Garand for him.

You absolutely can tell it is sanded. That stock is clearly not finished in the shellac that all refurb 91/30s have. The grasping grooves are rounded out. The only refurb stocks that come close to that light color are laminate, which that does not appear to be. And yes, I know exactly what the term bubba means, you're the one who has no clue.

Well you asked about value and you got a bunch of people replying with values that are for an un fucked with mosin I'm just trying to realistic so you don't get ripped off again

I’m willing to save a bit more for a quality garand like the ones they sell. What exactly are the requirements for that program? You just fill out the form on the website and they send it to an FFL? That would be great, especially since the value seems to be really good.
Honestly as long as the parts that matter work I’m pretty happy.

I bet french and Austrian stuff should start coming down in the coming years, the rifles will get more and more popular. I'd bet it'll get to .303 costs at 60 CPR bulk. Even if they don't, at least there's a steady supply of reloadable brass. You're probably right about the jap tooling, it's a shame it'll probably never be used to provide for the U.S. commercial market. Now I just need to spend a few hundred on dies. If you haven't yet, grab some of the MEN surplus .303. It's cheap and performs quite well, non corrosive to boot.
Pretty much. You need proof of collecting activity, just join the garand collectors association, and proof of shooting activity, which any RO can fill out. I haven't done it, but it doesn't seem hard.

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You will also need to provide proof of membership of a CMP-affiliated club; Garand Collector's Association is the go-to for minimal hassle over this.

You will also need to provide proof that you're involved in some marksmanship activity. If you shoot at a local range, bring a copy of the form and get the range officer to fill it out for you.

thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/eligibility-requirements/

thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/marksmanship.pdf

>You absolutely can tell it is sanded.
Bullshit

I unfortunately live in CA; SGAmmo seems to be the exclusive carrier of .303 Britbong and they won't ship here.

I dunno about the French and Austrian stuff - the reason why German and American stuff is so expensive, is because there's a lot of historical mystique and personal value in it. The average guy in America wants to own "the same rifle my great-grandpa took off of a dead Nazi *insert NCO rank here*" or "the same rifle that he carried through the Battle of the Bulge."

Unless your name is Jean-Jacques or Jakob, you most likely won't have the same attachment toward a MAS-36 or a Steyr M95. Which is a shame, because both of those guns are mechanically very interesting - and were used in wartime fronts that are (wrongfully) mocked or outright overlooked.

Will do. Can’t wait.

Also, do people really cast their own ammo? Like they cast the bullets themselves? I don’t know if that’s more cool or more scary when I imagine myself trying to do that

*of .303 MEN German surplus Britbong, my bad.

Yeah, I’m holding the rifle in my hand and I’m not an expert but I do my share of woodworking and I don’t think it was sanded. Or fired particularly often for that matter. I removed a lot of Cosmoline smeared all over the action.

>do people really cast their own ammo
Yes. They often scavenge the lead from discarded wheel weights from automotive shops, or mine the berms at firing ranges and shooting spots for lead. (The former isn't as common as it used to be, though - shops are realizing they can get scrap value from the lead.)

Casting your own bullets (using free or dirt cheap scrap lead) is how people can get crazy cheap reloads, but you have to be careful - most guns today were designed with jacketed ammo in mind. Too many cast bullets out of a Glock barrel (with polygonal rifling), for example, can lead to dangerous pressure situations.

You also have to be careful with ventilation when doing this; the fumes from casting lead are not good for your health at all.

Any CMP is absolutely going to be a fine shooter - they won't sell one that isn't. The Field Grade ones are $650, and will be in just a bit rougher cosmetic shape. The Service Grade ones are $750 and a bit prettier. You don't really need to go above Service Grade unless you're a serious collector.

If you're in western NY, you might also consider driving out to the CMP North Store in Port Clinton, Ohio and buying it directly from them. Call before you go to make sure you know what they have in stock, though.

That’s fascinating, I didn’t know that was common. Assuming you have a pretty good setup, is it worth the time invested or is it more of a hobbyist or prepper(no negative connotation) thing?

>I unfortunately live in CA; SGAmmo seems to be the exclusive carrier of .303 Britbong and they won't ship here.
.303 isn't hard to find in California. I've even seen it at Bass Pro in San Jose.

Liberty tree collectors has it, but not at the nice cheap price. Sorry about the California thing, that must suck. M95 carbines can be had in the $300 range, Mas 36s are a bit more. But yes, the price will keep me from having any German guns for a while, I already have one 98 pattern mauser so I just can't justify the money when that'll get me ~3 other guns i want in good condition. Lots of people cast, and it's a great way to keep ammo costs down. Personally, I just buy bulk FMJ bullets and don't bother with molten lead

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7.7X56 is carried at bass pro shops?
$650 for a good quality garand is great. I wish I’d heard of that before.

Reloading period is much more of a hobbyist thing; I would be surprised if even 5% of those who shoot recreationally, have a reloading setup of any kind. Of those 5% or so, I wouldn't really know how many cast their bullets - but it's definitely in the minority; you need open space or very good ventilation to do so.

You obviously haven't spent as much time looking at milsurp to be able to tell if something is sanded.

It's been sanded and refinished, don't kid yourself. Ignoring everything else, the finish is the wrong color from what the Soviets used.

Since you like milsurp, start with just handloading and worry about casting later, if you want to. You don't save money by reloading, you just shoot more for the same amount of money.

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Nobody believes you can tell that and OP has already said he doesn’t care even if it was so please just fuck off.

I feel you; I dropped close to $650 on an Israeli K98 Mauser pretty recently. Wish I could've pulled the trigger on them just 5 years ago or so, but I was underage then.

I've been eyeing those as well. So much surp and so little time. You're right though, becoming of age in the post cheap surp era is suffering.

What everyone believes and what is true can be two different things. In this case, they are, because I'm right. And that's what's really important.

I think you're right too. The stock does look funky

Okay, so for this I basically just need to buy.. well honestly I’m still a little confused about calibers. Caliber designators refer to XX.YY, let’s say, with XX being the diameter of the widest point of the bullet, that I get. But the second number, YY, is that the length of the cartridge? I’m asking because for 7.62x54, for example, would I need special bullets for that xYY, or just for the XX? If the question makes no sense I can try to rephrase.

What part of “fuck off” are you having trouble understanding?

That is the length of the cartridge casing, not the entire cartridge - you can seat a bullet to drastically different depths and have cartridges with very different lengths. For 7.62x54mmR, for example, the 7.62 refers to the diameter of the bullet in millimeters; the 54 refers to the length of the casing in millimeters, and the R refers to how it is Rimmed - with a rim that protrudes significantly out from the base of the casing.

Now you're mad and its funny

in AAxYY as in 7.62x39 the AA is bullet diameter and the YY is case length. That's the metric standard for cartridge naming. The thing is, it's all approximate. Take 7.5x55 swiss. When you reload that you actually use .308 diameter bullets, not .296 as the name implies. So, you could use the exact same bullets for 7.5 swiss, 30-06, .308 and many other cartridges. A reloading handbook will tell you exactly what bullets to use, and with what powder charge

Your girlfriend’s balls are sanded.

Also, the caliber designation tells you nothing but the dimensions of the case you'll have to buy. There are four main components to a cartridge: bullet, case, primer, and powder.

Bullets are specific to the cartridge - 7.62x54mmR, for example, uses a .311" diameter bullet, whereas 7.62x51mm NATO uses a .308" diameter bullet.

Primers have to be matched to the kind of casing; you would use typically "Large Rifle" primers to reload 7.62x54mmR.

Powder type and charge is very specific to different combinations of bullets and cases; I would highly recommend buying a reloading manual that contains a list of published and safe loads.

Ahh I see. So I could buy pretty much any 7.62 bullet and stick them in my happy little rimmed cartridges with some happy smokeless powder and it wouldn’t damage my rifle as long as I stayed within acceptable grain limits? Also, can there simply be ‘less powder’ and empty space rattling around or is that unwise from the standpoint of creating an effective explosion? I would think the casing would need to be packed fairly tight and that your wiggle room would come from how deeply inserted the bullet was.
I think I’ll get into reloading and buying bullets. Seems very economical.

I seriously don’t care about the stock. Money comes and goes, I’m glad I bought something that makes me happy. Pic related security cam frame of me leaving the gun store

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Once you pop the primer, seems like a bitch to replace. The brass I would probably just build up a supply from buying complete rounds seeing as 7.62x54R is fairly cheap. I am still a total novice after all.

There is a safe low and a safe high amount of any given powder for any given bullet diameter and weight. Too little pressure can take your fingers, so can too much. I load right at the "starting load" unless I get notable poor accuracy from that. So, for example, I load my 30-06 with 48 grains of 4064 powder and a 150 grain .308 bullet. That's just above my books starting load and is pretty tame.

Some ammo can't be reloaded easier. Cheap 7.62x54R is probably primed in the Berdan style, and isn't easily reloaded. Boxer primed ammo is easy.

>Once you pop the primer, seems like a bitch to replace
If you want to reuse your brass, you would need to push out the fired primer and put in a new one.

>7.62x54R is fairly cheap

Not all cartridges are reloadable - the cheap 7.62x54R Tulammo or Wolf is not reloadable, "Technically" steel casings are reloadable, but you won't get many uses out of them before they become unusable (cracked neck or bulge near the case head, signs that you should scrap the case). Most steel casings are also Berdan primed.

In a nutshell, Berdan primed casings have two holes in the base - you can check for them by shining a light into an empty case. Boxer primed casings have a single large hole in the base.

You can also technically reload Berdan primed casings, but this is generally not advised - the primers are extremely hard to come by in the US; the vast majority of commercially sold primers are Boxer primers.

You can get brass cased boxer primed new production 7.62x54R, though, but it will cost you about 60-80 cpr, depending on where and how much you buy at once.

You guys have been very helpful, others in the thread too. I’m definitely going to get one of those garands or a nice sks. Thanks a lot

Understood, thanks. I’ll get a reloading handbook.

They haven't been cheap for years, especially it the People's Republic of New York. Also,
>oof
>>>/reddit/

If you get really into surplus firearms, be sure to check out the /msg/ threads here. Seeing as how you're from NY and most cheap modern stuff there is restricted due to laws, you'll probably end up with a lot of bolt action rifles or low capacity semi autos and if you like the historical aspect of military surplus, you'll probably end up with a ton of it. Hope you have fun with your guns and welcome to the club.

To add on to this, you can convert berdan primer cases to boxer, but it's an annoying pain to do and I don't recommend it unless it's some oddball shit that nobody makes new brass for.

>150 for a Mosin in 2019
Tell me where people are selling them for that so I can buy literally every single rifle they have

Op I’d go for an SKS or a large ring Mauser, the Spanish ones require a bit of research on to know what’s good, but a Czech 8mm will be great. I’d suggest a Yugo M59/66 SKS or a Turkish, Czech, Yugo, or other 8mm Mauser, if you decide in a Turk Mauser check the serial numbers as they liked to swap out the parts Willy nilly.
I bought a Turk Mauser a while back and I didn’t check it thoroughly, turns out it doesn’t shoot milsurp ammo well so I have to buy steelcase stuff.

Learn to love shotguns. I live up here too
Lever actions are fun but ammo is pricey for rifle caliber ones, but shotguns are great fun imo

>youtube.com/watch?v=nw2aFTPAnAw

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>youtube.com/watch?v=mby4hOq-DpI
>312,955

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