10mm

Only 3 people outside USPSA/IPSC have one, and only another 10 actually want one.
And only 30 inside USPSA/IPSC run it.

bullets are stupid and I hate them

Stupid useless trash is stupid and I hate them.
If you can't kill it with a 9mm, then you need something other than a handgun.

That's a terrible stupid opinion and you're wrong.

Not that guy, but to be fair, that’s pretty good logic lmao

You say that like a 10mm pistol is meaningfully different in size than a 9mm.

>9mm won't kill brown bear reliably
>so let's get 10mm that'll do it
Wrong, get a rifle.
If you think 9x25 dillion will kill a human extra dead over just a 9mm, then you are also wrong.

What is the hottest cartridge fired from a (double stack) mag fed handgun? .460 rowland from a G21?

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Pure velocity?
Not the rowland.
Probably .357 sig or 9x25 if you use a 6+" barrel.
Also you clearly have access to the internet and can easily search this info yourself fuck face.

No i mean muzzle energy.

>the numbers after the x on my cartridge are so much cooler than yours

If you think 9x19 parabellum will kill a human extra dead over just a 380ACP, then you're also wrong.

See I can just say things too.

Oh, a completely useless metric?
Cool.
Ke=1/2MV^2
So probably a super light 9x25 dillion out of a 6"+ barrel.
Or you know, type your dumbass question into google

If you think 9mm will kill a human extra dead over just a 25 auto, then you are also wrong.

No i mean muzzle energy with standard weight projectiles for caliber.

A .460 Rowland out of a 6" barrel is pushing 1208fps, so around 744ftlbs.
125gr 9x25 is 802ftlbs (lighter rounds have more)

>It's another Jow Forums thinks they know anything about ballistics episode

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You show me a .380 with 17+ round capacity that's legal in the US and I'll carry it.

You're just a special form of retard aren't you?
Keep moving that goal post

>muh velocity
>muh ft lbs

none of this shit even matters for pistol calibers. 9x25 dildo is no better than 9x19 when it comes to stopping power

buy a fucking FN five seven if it's max capacity you care about stupid retard. it has 20 round mags.

jesus. "9mm is good enough for anything, but also I need 18 shots of it for some reason". tacticool shit for brains.

460 Rowland from a 6 inch barrel is 1261fps not 1208
it's muzzle energy is 812ftlbs

>stoppin powah
guess you also think 9mm is just as good as .357 mag.

>get a .380 it's the same
Show me a .380 with same capacity
>I-I mean just get a 5.7 it's the same
Can't even see your goal post a more you moved it so far.
.380 is a far cry from FNshit .22 micro

Underwood advertises 230gr 1000 ftlb loads but doesn't say barrel length, do you happen to know what length barrel they tested with?

No i mean muzzle energy with standard weight projectiles for caliber, out of factory standard barrel lengths.

You didn't tell me your standard was max capacity autism, retard.

>.380 is a far cry from FNshit .22 micro
If you think .380 will kill a human extra dead over just a 5.7x28, then you're also wrong.

I found a site with barrel.test ranges from 1" to rifle length.

But what loads were used?

Sub .33 call has shown a marked decrease in effectiveness, in handgun rounds they do not have the necessary bullet weight to penetrate deeply enough to reliably damage vital bodily structures.

and yet you couldn't even read the chart correctly

it is

230gr.
I didnt look into it much more, Rowland is such snowflake meme tier, and has almost no real loadings ballistics are harsh to find.

Oh newfags first troll?
You must lurk for a year before posting.

I'm curious what barrel length the Underwwod 1000+ ft-lbf loads were tested on then. Might send them an email.

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Sub .33? Really? Did you choose that arbitrary number just to disqualify .32 ACP? 9x19 bullets are typically 124 grain. 380 bullets are typically 90 grain. 32 ACP are like, 65 grain? So I guess your perfect special bullet that is sufficient and nothing could be an improvement except a rifle is a .33 caliber 80 grain projectile going no particular velocity, because apparently velocity doesn't matter at all so let's just say it's going at 800ft/s.

Perfect. Let's make this new cartridge and make pistols for it with 17 round magazines and anybody who buys anything else is retarded.

This chart is fake. Everyone else with similar setups gets much more velocity.
Stop posting this fake and gay shit.

Once you have enough energy to penetrate sufficiently, there is no point to having more especially if the bullet exits. Having more velocity to enhance sounding is more important. Hence why 9x25 > 460 rowboat

used to be bigger in the 80s/90s

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Well, now you have to.

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>do not have the necessary bullet weight
Sectional density is a thing, you know.

>why doesn't Glock do something
They're lazy and would rather have all the sales go to conversion sellers. Less people would buy a 9x25 than a GAP though, it's dumb.

>Everyone else
Who else? What numbers are they getting?

Dubs confirm, you have to now.

You could do a lot worse

There's no dubs there idiot.

Literally every 9x25 video on YouTube.

Because no one makes 9x25.

Its literally a wildcat. 28cpr 10mm VS what? A dollar plus for 9x25?

why couldnt one load a 65gr into the 9x25? Dont tell me you dont handload in current year user

Isn't 9x25 just some dumb 357sig copy?

>.22 mag won't kill a person reliably
>so let's get .223 that'll do it
You're a fucking retard, and I'm sick to fucking death of everyone simplifying different loadings and calibers down to absolute horseshit single factors. Ballistics is a nuanced science with a billion different variables. Why the fuck do you think people make all the variations you see? It's to get improved ballistics. Not because they just were looking at a 9x19 going "this is great, but I want it to be 1mm wider, because the sky is blue."

well this is wrong. 7.62x25 is a thing thats lethal for a long ways.

STOP BEING POOR!

Sorry, don't wanna blow 50 dollars firing like 20 bullets

>comparable sample sizes are for losers
>p values don't exist
This always bothers me. 9mm is going to have the highest rate of incidences, because it's the most widely adopted. The next closest should be .40, because the FBI went to it instead of 10mm in the 90s and everyone else followed suit, before going back to 9. Oh. Look. Those have the highest success rate. What a motherfucking coincidence.

Idk why they're so stupid probably budget costs they should have went with 45acp purely because it's a heart stopper and you couldn't cross a 45acp like you could brush off a 9mm

Shhhh it's just easier to let them go. Sectional density doesn't exist, 5.56 is the most lethal rifle round ever made, penetration is solely a factor of big ass bullets, fragmentation thresholds are all exactly identical, you know. Big boy ballistics. None of this whimpy science and nuanced bullshit.

My range I belong to has dumb Fudd rules witch velocity limits. Is there a resource or place I can learn about the physics of penetration? I wanna make a simple PowerPoint at the next meeting to prove these rules are fucking dumb.

They banned 357sig because it's too fast for the pistol range but 10mm is a-ok

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I.... That's.... Sweet Jesus. I'm not even sure where to start on that, my man. That logic is pants on head retarded. How thin are the backstops? That should worry you. As for resources, Chuck Hawks is a good starting point. Penetration is a function of velocity, but also sectional density, contact area, etc. Here's a primer on SD: chuckhawks.com/sd.htm

Its fucking dumb. They say "no magnums over 1000fps" so no regular 357 magnum but 9mm is OK. No 357 sig because that's too fast but it's not a magnum but 10mm is OK. No 22 magnum because that goes faster than 1000fps out of a 18" barrel which also means no 22 magnum out of my revolver with a 4" barrel even though it can't break 1k fps. Again, remember that 9mm out of my 5" barrel is OK even though that's like 1200fps with a 115gr bullet but no 22 magnum because it's a magnum even though that's barely 1k fps out of a 4" barrel with a 40gr bullet.

But user I don't want to carry a rifle and a 10mm with the right loads will absolutely kill a bear reliably

JuStAsGoOd-user posted his table, but you can't point to one video as evidence?

What sort of fudd fuckery is this, no .357 Magnum on a pistol range? Take a dump on the counter and never go back

I have a picture on my computer I'll post it if this thread is still up

A picture of the range rules *

Holy fuck. Do they sit around sipping Hoppes? I mean what the fuck. Magnum means literally nothing anymore. 1000 fps is a super arbitrary number, because no modern handgun cartridge, except mUh fuDdY fIvE is jogging along that slowly. In ballistic terms, that slow, and fat boy bullet is stopping half way to the target to have himself a drink and a snack. It's nothing.

The only 10MM worth shooting is basically the same price.
28 CPR is literally just 40 so why not just shoot 40 for less?

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It’s the same thing with more case capacity and as such more powder.
It can even use the same exact case. Which gives the big think about idiots who claim “357 is rated for higher psi than 9x25.” You can tell Saami any number and they will accept it. It’s not something they come up with. You can’t use 40 brass to make in-spec 357 Nig (neck will be too short) so the next step up to form it is to trim down 10MM brass. 9x25 is just untrimmed 10mm brass.
It’s literally the same thing with more powder. Anyone who says 357 Nig is better is a brainlet.

>9x25
>Copy of 357 Sig
Wanna know how I can tell you're a nogunz zoomer?

>The only 10MM worth shooting is basically the same price.
You are fucking stupid. There is more to shooting than just self defense shooting. Target ammo is 28cpr stop kidding yourself.

>I am hasguns because I use a hipster bullet

>not necking 10mm to .312 case
>not loading lehigh defenses THV round
>claiming your meme round is superior to mine
>Year of Oyr Lord 2019

In all seriousness. Why not neck a 9mm shellshock case down to .312 bullets and load super hot load?

9mm thv was claimed to hit 2400fps out of pistol length barrels back in the 80's. Theres that one company that loads a 50grn schp that hits 2000/fps out of subcompact 9mm pistols, and 2100+ in 4.5" bbls in multiple peoples videos on youtube.

Then there's 960 rowland. Which I guess can be replicated with normal 9x19 brass instead of 9x23 winchester, selecting short bullets and maximising the OAL of the loading.

But I want to be able to shoot through barriers amd 9mm will have a harder time with many barriers that 10mm could punch through.

No, 9x25 was created in the late '80s for IPSC raceguns.
The idea is to
(1) make major power factor of 175
(2) do it with slow-burning powders to increase muzzle exit pressure, making compensators more effective.
The idea was to improve on .38 Super by adding more case volume to allow slower powders. So the maximum pressure was not particularly high; that wasn't the point, as any velocity over 175PF (1522 fps @ 115gr) offered no benefit. Also it needs a large-frame gun.

.357 SIG was introduced in 1994 as a duty round claiming to match .357 magnum ballistics in a small-frame autopistol, where hotter is better, and thus is has a maximum pressure slightly hotter than 10mm.

So not a copy, and not dumb, just a similar round originally developed for an entirely different purpose.

>tell Saami any number and they will accept it
>implying 9x25 is even a SAAMI cartridge
First, it's not in SAAMI standard, go look: saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.3-CFP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf
Second, once a max pressure is widely published, whether as a SAAMI spec or otherwise, commercial ammo makers are under significant pressure to either abide by it or label their rounds as +P. If Cletus dremels out his feed ramp "for reliability", then blows up his gun and sues you, you want to be able to say either "Don't blame me, I loaded it to the published spec" or "Don't blame me, I told him it was hotter than spec."
So if you're planning to buy ammo (from the handful of boutique ammo makers who offer it) rather than loading your own, the difference in published pressures, and the resulting lack of performance difference, is a perfectly valid consideration.

If you're loading your own, of course, there would be no good reason not to go up to .357 SIG pressures, and avoid the underwhelming results shown in & .

I'd rather have more power than I need than a cost ineffective pipe dream caliber. Besides which 10mm is goat so your opinion is useless.

Or 460 Rowland
Only 200 FPS less than 45 win mag, might even be able to get a little bit more than 1400 FPS with it.

What I’d really like to see would be 460 Rowland or better yet 45 super, necked down to 10mm and 9mm.
The 45 acp of the 10mmtjong already exists but I don’t think anyone makes a 45 super case necked down to 10mm. 45 super uses stronger brass than 45 acp.

I posted two separate sources, one of which literally videotaped his whole test. Put up or shut up.
Good question, IIRC it's been asked of underwood before by other anons, they just keep getting a response of "we're planning to eventually". Given how their other loads perform though, you'd probably be talking about sub 100fps velocity gain, so i don't really see a reason to wait on the 9x25D version when you could just have the .357 version right now.
>2000fps from a 6" bbl with expanding and FTM bullet designs on the market
>th-that won't produce any rifle like wounding, it doesn't even have a stock
Oh look, another 9mm apologist regurgitating what he heard on the latest episode of cuckygunner instead of doing any actual research on the subject. What a surprise.

REMINDER that pistol caliber wars are fucking retards.

youtu.be/T6kUvi72s0Y

If you use anything other than 9mm, you're a total baka.

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>lucky gunner
>takes at least 2200fps for wounding from TSC
>doesn't mention bullet frontal area or disruption as factors
Seriously hope you're "trolling"

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7.62x25 is an excellent penetrator and is sub .33. 32 ACP is also and FMJ penetrates deeper than all “standard” pistol caliber JHPs. You are dumb.

That's essentially what 7.5FK is

For humans it is

Don’t need 18 shots of it, it is just the capacity which full size duty pistols where made to hold

New fag gfto

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