This is what Finland came up with to modernize their aging AKs

>What happens when AK and AR have a baby

Wasn’t there a certain finnbro who insisted on using his outdated rifle instead of getting a new one, and then the Russians came and he killed 500 plus in a 3 month war while still using his old iron sights? I think I have heard s story like that somewhere....

Simo Häyhä?

What should they have picked for fighting in heavy forrested land? .300 blk? 9x39?

>nicer stock
>fore-end for bolting on tacticool shit
Fair enough.

>7.62x39mm
A little bit short in range maybe, but it still works alright.
It would probably have been worthwhile to upgrade to 5.56mm, or 5.45mm (as there's both the availability of industry for that nearby, and it's the old logic of using your enemy's ammunition), but they only have so much money to work with.

If you think that's the result, you haven't seen a lot of guns.

Why switch to those when 7.62x39mm already gives that kind of performance and they have the infrastructure and logistics for it already?
Would be a lot of money for a sidegrade.

They clearly went to 762x39 to keep it lethal while suppressed

>2019
>7.62mm

Oh no, NO 10 and 20 rounds of 12.7 × 55 mm

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Subsonic loads of 7.62x39mm don't tend to like to cycle in AKs. You'd likely need to adjust the gas somehow.

prööt :DDDD

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.62x39mm
>A little bit short in range maybe, but it still works alright.
>It would probably have been worthwhile to upgrade to 5.56mm, or 5.45mm (as there's both the availability of industry for that nearby, and it's the old logic of using your enemy's ammunition), but they only have so much money to work with.
Picture related, this is rather typical forest in Finland, as you can see longer range beyond 2-300 meters would not make any difference and the RK 62 allready has that covered.

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guy, guys, what about this:

>switch from open top box reciever to
>closed top, open bottom reciever
>weld rail on reciever top
>bottom of reciever is closed by a slide on on pin-hinge-AR-style polymer "lower reciever" which also has the stock (in line with bore)
>cut charging handle off of AK BCGs
>put in a dust cover over ejection port
>2 charging handle options:
>1: AR style or
>2: mount handle on left side of gas tube, tube can be pulled back/telescope in the reciever to move the BCG back, tube locks on gas block

I thought that was Segal sensei in the thumbnail.

Didn't they always do that?

Probably, I suppose.
What about urban combat though? Cities and industries is what an invader would target.

Kinda. They used to buy Nagants from them at some point in the past, and they have bought other guns and ammo from them before.

That is a lie since russia no longer have that wide spread 7,62x39 use

It was true way back when they did.

it's old design rifle, doing things like this is like taking piece of shit and trying to make it look good slapping fancy shit on it, but it's still piece of shit with more shit on it.

t.finnfag

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Could still be an argument for having literally every male familiar with the AK platform. Plenty of AK74s on the ground when the Russians come.

Not sure why they get shit on for using it considering it's still the most widespread centerfire rifle round worldwide. Lots of people are going to it or keeping it. IE India which went there FROM 5.56 though the INSAS a shit, Hungary BREN, Vietnam ACE, tons of African and ME shitholes with Galil Aces etc. Pakistan just bought into the BREN 2.

Literally no reason to not use it other than carrying slightly less ammo for the individual soldier and being more of a manufacturing/logistics burden. The latter being not really an issue given over half a century of use.

Grate readers still tel that lie.
Well one lieutenant said that bouncing betties exist only in movies and that m72 law is still good against tanks(most of us agreed that we would use them only against APCs if shtf)

I believe that Finland will stick to ak platform even when true modernization of our weapons happen
Still most trustworthy platform in frozen forest
Russian weapons will most likely be kept as backup plan, we all know how much people like war trophies

You're a fucking retard. The improvements between an AK from 50 years ago and a SCAR are minimal. The imrpovements between iron sights and glass+nightvision are FUCKING ENORMOUS. Outfit an AK to use those, and you have a perfectly suitable modern rifle.

guys? guys pls?

>glass+nightvision

is expensive and needs marksmanship training. these things are not that far up the list of Russia.mil. in fact, the only country which gives are real fucks about marksmanship is the US and even here degradation has been happening.

pretty sure by glass he means red dots as well.

Average grunt doesn't know how to use irons so we might as well buy glass or red dot for everyone and save a little bit on the long run.

Russia is going full bore into optics with the AK-12. It's happening. You don't need to piss around at ranges all day when you have something like an aimpoint. It's point and shoot at expected ranges with minimal training. My wife was shooting and making hits at 300 in under half and hour and under 200rds. The days of shooting matches being relevant for soldiers are over.

It's so sad to see the AK and variants struggle to compete with modern rifles by being dressed up as a AR-15.

Why does ever rifle ever have to have an M4-pattern stock when it's objectively a waste of room? Is there literally no other modern sliding collapsible stock any more?

Modern rifles don't bring much to the table for a nation state other than ease of mounting optics and IR. This solves this problem for Finland while maintaining the entirety of their arsenal, decades of training, and familiarity. A no brainier really.

Cost though I agree it's stupid. I'd rather have the OG RK stock but I imagine it probably interferes with the new rail or something

sorry brosef but when EU conscripts shoot x
3x5=15 rds of 556 TOTAL (that's my austrian military service of 2006) it's hard to expect ANYTHING. a soldier should know the drop off od the ammo he is shooting and should know how to sight in his rifle. without that bare minimum, even a red dot doesn't help you much. 200rds of training is already upper echelon tier for EU militaries. that all being said, the AK12 is still an afterthought. they really need to let the AK go and need to start a rifle for the coming 50-100 years from the ground up.

>Kinda. They used to buy Nagants from them at some point in the past, and they have bought other guns and ammo from them before.

Nagants no. The one's used in Finland where rifles that finnish forces had taken from Russian garrison troops and their armories that where still in the country when independence was declared in 1917. Later on they designed their own rifles based on the Mosin, using same calibre and all. There is even story how during Winter War finnish troops would use the bolts and other parts from the russian Mosins in their own rifles, mainly because they worked better in muddy/sandy conditions.

economy of scale most likely. those fagpul stocks are everywhere and therefore cheap.

That forend looks neat as hell
The stock and sight rail are already in use, pic related

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Not really
Sighting still needs to happen and learning how to shoot groups
And Irons wont go anywhere

Original RK stock is just fixed tube and I remember many people for who those were a slightly too long

The stock might be lighter but that handguard is certainly heavier, the current one is just plastic, the sight will also add some weight but even then the weight of the gun nowhere near unmanageable

>15rds
Lmao. At least you have "free" healthcare!

dude what the hell? back in the cold war times finland used loads of soviet equipment, tanks, troop carriers, etc.

The sliding stock is really nice when you've got a flackjacket etc.

Didn't they buy rifles and parts from them from Russia and other countries which fielded the Nagant? Both surplus and new?

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Disagree. You can dryfire away bad trigger control and dots only require one focal plane of alignment over the target. Not to mention NVG compatibility if fighting near peers. Iron sites have already gone away here. Most don't deploy with them.

>7.62mm
Finland is basically nothing but thick forests inhabited by sauna witches, using a heavier caliber makes a lot of sense for shooting in brush where you can barely see 100 yards out in any direction to begin with.

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It made things dead 50 years ago, it makes things dead now. Rifles haven't changed much.

He didn't even use a rifle, he's the worlds most accomplished sniper and his weapon of choice was an SMG.

Fins are bigger IRL shitposters than Australians.

The Finns never truly built their rifles from the ground up, they made the barrels and sights and stocks but pretty much every gun used the receiver and bolt of the 1891 Mosin's they captured over the years.

With around 250 confirmed kills/hits.
Everything above that is unconfirmed but most likely goes over 300

>Lmao. At least you have "free" healthcare!

also note how I wrote

>3x5=15 rds

we never just got the 15rds. we got 5rds at a time and the instructors were wearing body armour and their side arms. these shits were literally scared one of us would freak and go on a spree. and that was 2006. I can only imagine how things much be now...

Lmao wtf, we just get handed full mags in the Finnish army
too bad we don't really get to fire in full auto

Finland bought and received captured Mosins from their allies who had stocks of captured Mosins.
Finland never technically made their own Mosins - just rearsenalled the old ones to their own specifications. They made their own stocks, barrels, trigger assemblies, and sights, but never any receivers.
While I don't doubt that some troops might have swapped bolts in the field, Finns never made their own bolts, just reused captured ones in their rearsenalled rifles.
Later on in the cold war era, Finland was compelled to buy Soviet arms as a matter of political appeasement to their big neighbor, which is why Finland has things like PKMs in its armories.
Later yet after German reunification, Finland bought up all of East Germany's old 7.62 AKs to keep stockpiles of rifles in reserve.

>Didn't they buy rifles and parts from them from Russia and other countries which fielded the Nagant? Both surplus and new?

I think you are mixing two rifles here. Finnish did buy AKMs and it's different variants from other countries and this was in the 1950s all the way to early 2000s. But before WW2 the rifles used in finnish army where either Mosin-Nagants obtained in 1917 from the Imperial Russian armories or brand new rifles built in local factories. The latter where the more dominant. During WW2 large amount of new Mosin-Nagants where salvaged from the battlefields. I don't think finnish goverment ever bought them, from Soviet Union atleast, because before WW2 the Soviet-Finnish relationship was kinda bad for that kind of arms trade to happen.

Many SFs in Finland use RK-95s + ACOG as their make-shift DRMs, engaging targets at 450 meters with little issue.

For longer distances, there's TK-85, TRGs, SVDs and even the PKMs & ITKKs.

Nobody gives a fuck about the towns, and the typical view distances in Finnish cities is seldom more than a few hundred meters either.
In general, when SHTF, Finns disappear innawoods.

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To be fair the Suomi was just a good, solid SMG.
Hell, Russia didn't start seriously looking at SMG's until they got absolutely chewed up by them in the winter war, before that they still had the mentality of SMG's being uncouth American gangster guns like a lot of other countries.

>Later on in the cold war era, Finland was compelled to buy Soviet arms as a matter of political appeasement to their big neighbor, which is why Finland has things like PKMs in its armories
Could have been worse. At least PKMs are fucking good.

ironically, LOS and engagement distance will be longer innacities than they will be innawoods.

Desu even that was ruined by some faggot who went on a shooting spree in 90s
>Be me
>Have 5/20 eyesight
>Literally unqualified for some tasks and cant legally drive without glasses
>Dont use glasses because theyre fucking annoying and fuck up the hearing protection
>Still get full loads when doing live fire exercises
Absolutely ebin

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It was like 500 kills with the Nagant and 200 with the Kp31.

>SMG

there is only one SMG worth considering.

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I've always been somewhat taken aback at how bad Euro militaries are at shooting. Now I see why. It's the opposite sort of suck in the US. I've probably fired a million rounds by now, our logistics are so fucked that often we get told to spend all day just dumping hundreds of thousands through SAWs and clapped out M4s because we can't store the ammo and they don't want to send it back. Everything that isn't going into combat is nearly 100% niggers and beaners now so it's incompetent as fuck.

>there is only one SMG worth considering.
Ironically that SMG was so good that finnish made their own version of it and produced it well after WW2.

It's more galil style when it comes to sights and furniture. I like it for the most part.

Russians copied suomi mag and build ppsh and then they made it even cheaper and then finland copied that but made it use drums too

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Finland bought and received as aid Mosins from Germany.
They additionally contracted out manufacture of replacement parts, including barrels, to their other allies and neutral countries.
M/24, M/28s, and M39s has barrels made by SIG, Germany, and Belgium in addition to Finland's own VKT and Sako

Well, they had to get it right eventually after tarding around with the PPD and PPSh.

>PPSH-42 and not 41
user I. . .

What? Swedish active duty and fired thousands of rounds during basic training.

Sorta, during the Winter War, Simo(finish sniper) insisted on using open iron sight mosin instead of a PU sniper mosin. He said that the scope lens fogged up with frost to easily and the glare gave away your position.

Ah allright. I am guessing the Belgian ones where before WW2? And then german manufacturing during ?

They havent changed from 7.62 for the same reson the US still uses 556. They have tens of millions of rounds in storage, and hundreds of thousands of rifles in 762xVodka, so the logistics of replacing it all isnt worth the maginal increase in preformance.

Don't forget having to rise head higher.

>What? Swedish active duty and fired thousands of rounds during basic training.

sure you did. claims like these are worth nothing. though maybe SWE is different, dunno. I do however know that in my country, atm there are only 2 outdoor shooting range sused by both the cops and the .mil. COUNTRY WIDE! two ranges. are able. to. deal. with training. and maintanance. of shooting skill. of. our. armed. forces. and police.

its all by design. and they were wearing armour because they knew they were shit shoots with their Glocks. I mean soft kevlar would not have helped against 556 from AUGs. but if there was a scuffle they might have shot each other with their pistols....

All during, to the best of my knowledge. Belgian barrels were used on some M39s, which were mostly made in wartime.
Don't quote some anonymous fuck on 4chins on this, though.

There might become performance increase with new casing but Finland wont be adopting it.

What he writes is a huge suprise for me to. In Sweden we have conscripts and a fucklow budget but everyone still gets to fire tens of thousands of rounds in all sorts of ways.

Lmao, we have like 30 fields (around 10x10 km of land where we do live fire with all sorts of shit) and 1 - 3 regular ranges per regiment.

Where do you live?

>conscripts fire
>tens of thousands of rounds

now nobody believes you. say you are standing .mil personnel, possibly SF, fine. but conscripts? 10ks of rds? get the fuck out.

Almost everyone in our platoon was trained to use the MG, and a MG gunner could easily do 10k rounds in a week-long exercize. After all thats still just around 40 belts. We were in for 9 months and we used our rifles/SAWs at the field or range almost every day.

Same here in Finland aswell. When I was in service was part of the tranport/supply company. And we shot way more than that. Even did pistol shooting. The regular infratry, marksmen and the ranger companies shot alot more than we did.

That said, logistics people only shot a lot during the first three months. After that they might only visit the range once every two weeks

What kind of third world country do you live in?

well I just report what I have seen during my service and what is currently being done for .mil and .pol here. 10s of k or rds. seems like a lot to me. when I treat myself to a shooting session every 3 or so months 1000rds seems like a lot, almost too much.

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Ammo is cheap

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not really, 1000rds of 223 is 400€ which is 1/3rd of my pay...

.223 is dirt cheap in the US thanks to economy of scale.
On a government contract, you can get get the stuff pretty damn cheap too.

me too

Do you rub your keys against that rifle?

That was the original intention, but now it's because they already have shit loads of domestically produced 7.62x39 plus the magazines. There's no point in tacking on the added cost of swapping out rounds while also keeping the same basic rifle to save costs. Finally, I would contend that 7.62x39 is a good choice for Finland. Your talking about heavily wooded areas or urban combat, which are both places where 7.62x39 excels with it's superior barrier penetration and lack of long range shots. Finally, 7.62x39 performs very well in extremely cold environments.

Does your military practice with sticks while making gunshot noises like the Ugandan Army?

It's a rifle passed down from conscript to conscript, it has probably been used hard for decades, who knows what's happened to it in all of this time.
Being an AK with a machined receiver though, it'll hold up to that, it's just some scratches.

Reminder that Simo Hayha is as real as Santa Calus.

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