Sp, Jow Forums I was wondering how will war be waged once Human civilization collapses?
With Swords, bows, wooden pikes, and repeating crossbows? Or matchlocks, to prewar revolvers and shotguns that have been hastily converted to black powder? Maybe even to sten guns and homemade Mac 10s, depending on how much infrastructure survives in a specific area?
Will armored vehicles or Animals be the norm?
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Crossbows would be common. All cars have suspension that can be used to make one.
Americans are too retarded to know how to synthesize KNO3 from effluent and there are no sulphur deposits in 99% of the country so guns will be rare
>Americans are too retarded to know how to synthesize KNO3 from effluent
Obsess somewhere else
My country used to pay tax with saltpeter, I'm sure you guys on your mobility scooters are just as capable chemists as us though.
maybe also some sort of gas-powered/air-powered guns.
Seriously? My clay is high in sulfur content. Shit is yellow as hell and makes for crappy pottery in about 90% of the state. Just got to remove it and there ya go. KNO3 is easy to synthesize and grows naturally in many caves around here. You sir, are a dumbass.
Yeah, and now you're letting barbarians rape and pillage their way into removing your cultural identity, thanks Captain Sweden ya cuck.
okay D'Shaun Rodriguez
kn03 can be made from amonium nitrate and potassium chloride. Both can be found in any grocery store and are both very overlooked products. I make it myself all the time. all you have to do is mix both materials down in heated water then chil till -10°C and boom, potassium nitrate crystals. Not an amazing purity but it works.
>implying everyone in your country is a chemist just because your country was known for it in the past
Could you faggots be anymore pathetic? Like I said, obsess elsewhere.
Depends, really. If they are a few big cities still standing acting like city-states. Then I could see seen guns or M3 subs being the norm for those cities armies. With a few armored vehicles in specialized units.
>Americans are too
rent free euro poor
We will literally never go back from assault rifles, smgs, and auto pistols. Some fuckwit will inevitably make garage revolvers.
>Crossbows would be common. All cars have suspension that can be used to make one.
are you talking about leaf springs? that no modern cars have except for body-on-frame trucks?
Foot infantry and horse cavalry, armed with single shot breech loaders like the Remington Rolling Block and revolvers loaded with either early formula smokeless and corrosive chlorate primers. Strong instruction in marksmanship via dry fire by the individual since ammo will be precious.
We'd use guns. A disaster that can wipe out all the craftsmen, machinery, and knowledge related to small arms manufacturing would probably be big enough to wipe humans out completely. So any disaster that doesn't end every last one of us also allows guns as we know them to stick around for a long time. After any disaster, rebuilding starts soon if not immediately after. Even if we do end up going medieval, don't forget we were all medieval before and we have guns now. No matter what, we will end up guns in our hands.
Wait guys guys, we had this exact same thread with the same OP and same pic for the third time now...
Jesus you sword faggots are annoying af. Only way we are going to be using swords is if a mega disaster sets us back so far we don’t have access to anything from the past. Otherwise guns would be in common use and bullet making would resume
The average person doesn't know how to make bullets.
Most realistic depiction of an apocalypse = Threads
Least realistic depiction of an apocalypse = Mad Max 2/3/4
The average person will also die in the apocalypse. Anyone carrying around guns shooting people after the world has ended is either scavenging bullets or already knows how to cast lead balls.
The answer is no. No weapons(guns/ armored vehicles) will rise, except for spears, swords, bows, Animal transportation like donkeys, mules, and horses will be better
Most people will follow this survival plan instead.
>Isolated farmstead
> Self-sustaining water supply and food
>Decades of experiencing farming
>Large Catholic family
>spears, swords, bows
That is basically it. Live somewhere with a good aquifer that is out of the way so starving people don't kill you, have a big family to help work the farm.
GOAT locations are mt. valleys where agriculture is sustainable but not good enough to compete with Kansas.
>YFW Guns will die in your lifetime
Feels good man. They will no give the weak the means to rise above their betters.
Remember to stay Jow Forums, Jow Forums, the strong survive while the weak die. Guns only give a false sense of safety. Whereas skilled weapons like Bows, Spears, and Swords will make superior to gun fags.
>Whereas skilled weapons like Bows, Spears, and Swords will make superior to gun fags
pic related, you're the guy with the sword
>Post Apocalyptic conditions
>"Just go to the grocery store man!"
>"Then chill your ingredients to -10c"
You Sir, and not going to make it. Especially if you think convenience stores and electricity will be commonplace in any kind of collapse.
Enough bullets are produced each year to kill every person on Earth twice.
We'll still be using guns after the nukes drop, and the ammo supplies will either last until the final man dies or until civilization is sufficiently restored to manufacture new ammo.
Europeons.
T. Abdul Muhammad mulahalla
This,
Hell if shit went down tomorrow and i only had what i have on hand to defend myself/feed my family, i am confident i would die of old age or desease before ammo ran out, and i dont even have that much.
Something like this happens in Albania, a huge stockpile of Ammunition supposedly was supposed to last for decades in case the cold war went hot, it only lasted about five years.
US civilians have billions of rounds of ammo stored, they shoot better than US GIs. After the Blue cities burn them selves out, the borders are secured, utopia
Most likely this.
What if after SHTF, supernatural beings start appearing? What then?
I doubt gun fags are skilled in aiming.
Rofl, I can't even imagine how that guy thinks you could use a fucking leaf spring on a crossbow, even ye olde car springs from the 70s are thick and heavy as fuck.
A mixture of both, perhaps? Those weapons aren't exactly mutually exclusive to one another.
You can cut them to size dummy, you are using the leaf spring for the spring steel it's made of.
Ok soiboi, now how are you going to thin out 1/3rd inch thick steel with hand tools?
Have you ever even seen a leaf spring in real life?
Uh, sauce user?
There is enough ammunition stockpiled to last at least several years.
I think bows would be a good thing to have though.
U.s. has ammo stores from the 80s that is still in reserve and still in working condition. Just cause Albania couldnt get their shit together, doesn't mean every one else is not.
I think the real reason guns would go out of commission is the guns themselves, not the ammo.
Guns break pretty damn fast, especially when they're outside and not in a safe. And you can't just send your rifle via fedex to get it fixed, in post-apocalypse world.
Actually, I can see gunsmiths becoming pseudo-royalty in a post apocalypse... it would be like rice kingdoms, but with guns. Whoever knows how to repair guns would rule.
As soon as you get city-state or higher civilizations beginning to emerge, they can build simple electric arc furnaces to melt down scrap steel into ingots, then use gingery lathes/machine shops to machine those ingots into guns.
From there, they could use the Haber Process to make ammonia, the Ostwald process to make Nitric acid out of that ammonia, and use the nitric acid to nitrate cellulose (from sawdust or cloth) and make simple, single base propellents. They could even nitrate glycerine (which is a common byproduct of soap making) so that they could make double base propellants and high explosives. All of this would require a fuckload of electricity and labor, which is why only a city-state or bigger could realistically get away with it.
The hardest parts would be making the springs for repeating firearms, pressing brass into cartridges (you can get around this by milling brass cartridges on a lathe, but it's incredibly inefficient, both in terms of time and in terms of brass), and making primers. Primers are both really hard to make and really dangerous to make.
The TL;DR is that you could see, at a minimum, bolt action rifles, and maybe as far as modern assault rifles and tube artillery, relatively quickly, because a lot of the key components can be made in relatively small workshops. Any village big enough to have a blacksmith could field matchlock muskets at a minimum.
I sincerely doubt they would be making automatics. Maybe revolvers.
Revolvers, and stuff like bolt action and pump action rifles, would be a lot more reliable than automatics if ammo quality is questionable.
Making the actual guns wouldn't be that complicated, it's just a question of having a machine shop, and there are already guides available on the internet on how to make a machine shop from scratch. The hard part is making ammunition that doesn't kill the user, doesn't kill the person making ammunition, and goes bang every time, with roughly the same burn rate and amount of pressure.
Oh, and springs. Springs are a motherfucker, and you need those to make basically anything.
Just make an Ice Shack or live somewhere that experiences snowfall. You know, like an actual white person.
Touhou
>You know, like an actual white person.
adaptability to cold =/= white
>t. mutt
icefishing is fun
Depends on severity of the damage I guess.
If it's really bad and all production is basically halted and people get nuked to the stone age the only ammo available for guns will have to be scavenged. It would probably be the ressurection of 9mm SMGs seeing as 9mm is common all across the world.
If the damage is light? I bet ya people could still produce ammo and shit.
Kaguya and Mokou. They're lovers.
>there are no sulphur deposits in 99% of the country
Pyrite deposits are found in commercial quantities in at least 10 states. Coal is found in commercial quantities in 25 states. Gold is mined in commercial quantities in 24 states. At least 6 states produce commercial quantities of petroleum. Sulfur and sulfides are incidental byproducts of all of these activities. While there is some overlap between the various production streams, there’s enough divergence that it would be safe to say that 75% of the US has or produces sulfur.
Now, this brings us to the important question; are you too stupid to do 5 minutes of research, or are you just a low-effort troll?
Well, if you really want to dick wave, there’s a couple of easy metrics you can use. Lets start by disregarding the fact that your 3rd world country was once so poor they couldn’t pay taxes in cash. That’s not something to brag about, btw.
Anyhow, lets keep it current. What you do is, look up how many Nobel prizes for chemistry your country has received in the last 10 years. Do the same for the US. Then you look up the number of chemistry related patent applications your country has produced during the same time frame. Finally, take the resulting numbers and divide them into the respective national populations, in millions. You wind up with number of Nobels, and number of patent apps per million. If the numbers for your quaint little workers paradise equal or exceed the numbers for the US, then yes, you’re competent chemists. Is your numbers are less than ours, you have to accept the fact that you’ve been beaten by a bunch of obese, homeschooled rednecks. Don’t bother showing up to the Olympics.
Do you mean casting bullets for muzzle loaders? It’s not rocket science. Back when it was a common thing, a significant percentage of the people who did it were illiterate.
I forgot to add the part where you look up the US patent applications.
OP probably just started watching this retarded fucking show.
They also don’t know how to make swords, what’s your point? It’s much more likely some government or military remnants survive whatever calamity hits humanity and restarts ammunition manufacturing than humans beingso set back that we have zero access to Industrial Age tech or knowledge
If a civil war begins in the US, then Mad Max will seem like a good fairy tale for kids. Pray for Trump to avoid it.
Trump is an awful president. Vote for sanders or warren.
a sten gun is simpler to make than a revolver
Vote for Pedro.
Yeah, but if one of the rounds has too little energy or a misfire, the gun won't cycle. If it has too much energy it'll blow up the gun.
Until somebody manages to make primers and powder that are really consistent, automatics are going to be pretty jam prone. On top of that, without industrial metal stamping, every single round is going to have to be milled out on a lathe, and will cost a ton of money.
I can see a world where everyone goes back to bolt guns and revolvers for a while, to save on ammunition and prevent jams.
Dragoons will come back. Get hype.
Funny, I pay taxes to protect your borders.
Yes, bicycle dragoons.
While you were studying the autism, I was studying the 18 inch hacksaw faggot
Lol, we have these wizards that we call "engineers". They can make nitrate salts out of thin air. Have fun being a shit scraping peasant on m'lords farm though.
Who's this Young Maiden?
I wish I saved that Mad Max thread off Jow Forums a couple years back. Went into detail discussing how to keep manufacturing firearms and ammunition
I get that this post isn't serious, but I feel the need to reply anyway.
Even a small village with a blacksmith can make basic firearms. Unless people forget how to piss in straw, firearms will always be the meta for human warfare.
Sounds about right.
Almost perfect.
But, smokeless powder is actually the bottleneck not the primers. Primers are a homogeneous mix that is pressed into the primer cup. The actual compound amounts can be mixed in almost any quantity, and they are formulated more to give a hot spark than for explosive power.
Nitro cellulose and glycerin are both VERY powerful secondarys. Additionally NC has to be processed for days to render it stable enough for use. Then the 2 have to be incorporated in their raw and least stable forms with organic solvents that later need to be removed. First the mix has to be pressed or extruded into its final shape. All kinds of factors go into the burn rate from grain size to the remaining solvent.
The NRA has a great book about the process of making ammo. It covers everything from die design to primer mixing. The smokeless powder section is pretty much "lol, don't even try without a phd in chemistry"
None of that will matter when supernatural creatures start appearing.
>The NRA has a great book about the process of making ammo. It covers everything from die design to primer mixing. The smokeless powder section is pretty much "lol, don't even try without a phd in chemistry"
Is smokeless powder that difficult to make?
yes and no. Its certainly possible to make it in a small scale set up, but it would require a huge amount of R&D to develop anything like a commercial powder. The chapter is a rough outline of a couple of processes and some practical conciderations / anticdotes. Nothing like the detailed write ups that the other subjects get. pic related
The book is "Ammunition Making" by G. Frost BTW.
>once Human civilization collapses?
What sort of collapse? It's hard to envision the world reverting to much further back than the 1940's or so for very long. And back then the world had machine guns, jets, and nuclear bombs.
The average person now doesn't know how to make a gun or ammo and yet both are ubiquitous in armed forces. The same was true back when peasants were using spears - most of then didn't know jack shit about blacksmithing.
>There are still people that think that WW3 today would be nuclear and don't know about ARTICHOKE payloads
Remember that Project Pluto meme? A nuclear-engine infinite range cruise missile that flies at treetop level killing everyone with sonic booms (yeah ok) and spitting out radiation salting the earth so nothing can grow (doubt it).
Well they have a mach 100 nap-of-the-earth tic-tac drones that spew out modern (LSD-25 was discovered in 1938) super-powerful bio/chemical hybrid psychedelic payloads that permanently latch onto your receptors like parasites and send you into an absolute helltrip and if you have kids they'll be tripping balls too, like AIDS.
5 minutes from the furthest end of Russia to the other, a spread of 10, maybe 1 minute south to north in China.
That's why Russia made those autonomous cobalt UUVs, not even to fire at the US but to put their own people out of their misery if that shit was ever launched.
So basically if you're Russian/Chinese you're going to be in mental hell a long time if those cobalt torpedoes don't go off. Westerners get skeletonized. Not even cockroaches survive.
Minuteman/SSBN/B-52 = job security at this point. It's SSGN drone motherships that launch what I'm guessing is designated X-52 but it's that tic-tac thing the Pentagon/CIA/Skunkworks was trying to say was aliens to the public but it was really a threat to Russia.
youtube.com
Here's the X-52 or A-52 or whatever it's called dropping a tracer agent on Santiago to test the spread. If you're a survivalist you're wasting your time.
You sound schizophrenic.
Where are you going to get hacksaw blades in the apocalypse retard?
My understanding was that primers are both very complex mechanically and prone to blowing people the fuck up because you need to work with primary explosives in order to make them.
Ah, ok.
schizo mode ACTIVATED
No, just difficult to make safely. In the early years smokeless factories would explode all the time, and workers would be paid a hefty wage to make up for the risk of death.
Jury rigged firearms like breach loaders, revolvers and bolt actions will be commonplace, while more sophisticated weapons will be controlled and owned by various warlords, and the faculties and knowledge to maintain them will be a hot commodity. Reloading will be a must know for the village gunsmith, granted I am not quite sure what goes into making even the most primitive of cartiges. We may have to go back to paper cartridges. A good question to ask for this sort of thing is "can this be made by a hobo with non electric hand tools in the wilderness?" If the answer is yes, then chances are that it will see extensive use post-collapse.
Barrels aren't hard to make, shotgun shells aren't hard to refill. I'm not saying a post-apo world would produce great, reliable shotguns, but it'll make them alright.
Like digging toilets, smoking meat, and using insulation, guns are the kind of knowledge that is here to stay.
I see, thanks.
Primer cups and anvils are one stamping operation each to make. The priming compound is handled wet, so it is nowhere near its max sensitivity.
>Sanders
>Warren
Why are burgers so fucking fragile that all it takes is something like this too trigger like 10 of them? Easy (you) farm detected
Post guns
Guns won't help you once the monsters start appearing after the SHTF, user.
>even in your fantasy your still retarded
She did jack shit with that gun.
>Nukes hit
>"Damn, time to start using spears, swords, and bows."
Manufacturing primers would be pretty difficult even if you had all the know how, equipment and chemicals on hand.
>amonium nitrate in grocery store
wat?
Not an argument.
Don't you have that?
