So the UK and France have nuclear weapons, does anyone on Jow Forums know why this is necessary?
The UK has four submarines, France has fighters and submarines.
So with the US nuclear deterrent apart of NATO, why do these nations have their own deterrent forces?
There's also the nuclear weapons shared agreement with Germany, Neverlands, Belgium, Turkey and Italy.
Other urls found in this thread:
en.wikipedia.org
twitter.com
I just don't understand, these nations are supposed to be under the US nuclear umbrella, so why have them?
The UK wanted a sovereign capability
France wasn't in NATO from 1966 to 2009
Why though?
Because what if the UK and USA disagreed on something
Oh, you know, like Suez?
France has nukes so they can sell nukes to Israel
Right, but Suez was kinda only a small thing?
I thought that was South Africa?
the UK has their own nuclear deterent because the United States, in the 1950s, refused to share any nuclear secrets to any other nation, thus the British embarked on their own nuclear program.
The French, as previously noted, were not part of NATO due to political disagreements and the French being pompous pricks as per the norm, so they developed their own nuclear armament.
A big driving factor in this was that they don't know what the United States would dictate requires the use of nuclear weapons, for all they knew the commie fucks could be using chemical weapons and nuking London and Paris and Nice and the US wouldn't retaliate with Moscow, so they devised their own nuclear triad with their own doctrine of use.
The French would escalate to tactical and strategic nuclear weapons the moment the Commie Bastards crossed the Rhine in order to protect their national sovereignty. The British have their orders sealed away in some goddamn letter in event of nuclear attack and comms lines being cut.
>Right, but Suez was kinda only a small thing?
It's pretty fucking big when it shows the USA can pressure the UK over international affairs.
Why would you give your nuclear fucking arsenal away as a bargaining chip to be used against you.
>in the 1950s, refused to share any nuclear secrets to any other nation, thus the British embarked on their own nuclear program.
But didn't they join with the Americans?
>The British have their orders sealed away in some goddamn letter in event of nuclear attack and comms lines being cut.
I assume you're on about the letters of last resort la' ?
>only a small thing
It was the USA slapping British ass and pulling their choke chain. WW2 may have started the end of the British empire, but Suez is what ended it for all time. The UK became life support for London, and the US held the debts that made London their bitch.
>Right, but Suez was kinda only a small thing?
Suez was the fucking real world case of the USA becoming the dominant global power
>The British have their orders sealed away in some goddamn letter in event of nuclear attack and comms lines being cut.
I thought the British had acrtive control over their nuclear weapons, like every other nation?
They do have active control but the letters are a back up should there be a first strike on London (specially Westminster)
France was in NATO the whole time they just withdrew from the integrated command structure.
Because the rest of NATO trusts the US only as far as it means US dollars, bodies and equipment. They dont trust the US with their own national security, apart from allowing a couple of airbases here and there so its not their planes getting shot down in the first wave. Why would they ever trust the US with our nuclear deterrent, especially when they have a habit of kicking off wars, doing backhanded shit in 3rd world shitholes and generally being pretty rogue in the international stage?
So it wasn't in NATO
They did, Eventually. It took the Soviets developing their own nuclear weapons and several years after the fact for them to do that.
Yep, those.
They did "join" the americans. Having their own nukes did a lot for them however, in terms of research (lots of science and also research into radiation protection etc). The main thing however has already been touched upon. That is, if Britain/France has nuclear weapons, then they are also in the driving seat should the USSR attempt something and the US be unwilling to respond. It's a bit like a dr strangelove-solution.
So what they say about Americans and knowledge of history is actually true... Go read a fucking book you redneck ignorant.
Also who's pretentious here, two European countries that want to ensure their sovereignty by their own means or the Americans that actually believe that all of the Western world depend on them ?
\thread
Also you Americans a worse than the SJW you so happily shit on. You want everybody to be free but only if it's your specific variety of freedom under your specific rules.
When you're a global hegemon, you can do it too.
France was still part of NATO politically, de Gaulle just wanted full control over their military and didn’t want to have to go along with NATO decisions. France made agreements with the US that they would fight if the Soviets attacked and during the time they were “not” in NATO they participated in NATO operations in the Balkans and the Middle East.
my favorite part about the UK getting Polaris is that it was litteraly given as apology for the failure of the albm project skybolt failing
en.wikipedia.org
So no, it wasn't in NATO. I don't get why this is a hard concept for you.
Hegemon my dick. Don't you realise your economy and social canvas is totally boned ? All americans under 20 want is more state intervention, more welfare and socialism. Your society is decadent and being eaten from the inside by socialism, neo-marxism and political correctness. Your men are becoming weak an your intellectual elite is self centered and doesn't care anymore about the betterment of the nation. You will not be able to resist the flood of chinks that will inevitably take over the American economy.
To be fair that can be said about all of the developed world. Also the British will be the first to fall.
>yadda yadda, here's my non-weapons related OPINION on social issues - don't you understand I know the world better than you despite lacking a passport
France was a full NATO member and had two nuclear plans. One for use with NATO and one for use If France should face a threat alone.
Because in WWII Britain had the world's most advanced nuclear weapons program - codenamed Tube Alloys. When America entered the war we gave them a shitload of advanced tech in return for antique destroyers and Tommycooker Shermans. Tube Alloys was folded into the Manhattan Project and the USA and UK had an agreement to share all nuclear technology. As soon as WWII ended the US reneged on the deal so Britain had to start again from scratch despite being effectively bankrupt. We got to work on nukes and hydrogen bombs which we successfully tested in the 1950s. Uncle Sam came sniffing around and saw that some of our stuff was better than theirs so agreed to start sharing again. Ever since we've had this weird independent-but-not-really-lol nuclear capability. Our Trident missiles depend on being serviced in a US facility which is a pretty strange definition of "independent".
I believe the trigger is if the sub can't pick up BBC Radio 4 that means Britain is gone so open the letter and follow the orders.
>Subs radio system malfunctions
>140 nukes is suddenly dropped on France
I support this timeline
Probably something cuckish like "sail to Australia/Canada/NZ and place yourself under their control".
>the UK has their own nuclear deterent because the United States, in the 1950s, refused to share any nuclear secrets to any other nation
worse than that the US cut the british out almost before the war was over, despite solemn agreement to share the results of the manhattan project and despite britain making signficant contributions to the project both in terms of scientific staff and the tube alloys data which underpinned the entire project -and inspired the einstein letter- Truman was a cunt of the first order
Reminder that nuclear weapons doesn't exist.
>I've not seen them so they don't exist
Do you also not believe in air?
So all the hundreds of hours of video of nuclear tests recorded by multiple nations are all faked by some international maffia?
Sounds perfectly resonable.
*Citation needed
Hegemon my dick. Don't you realise your economy and social canvas is totally boned ? All americans under 20 want is more state intervention, more welfare and socialism. Your society is decadent and being eaten from the inside by socialism, neo-marxism and political correctness.
This is your mind on europoor education and propaganda.