100,000 6.8 millimeter NGSW ordered

>capitalizes on advancing technologies to provide increased performance at range, integrated Squad Fire Control (S-FC) systems, improved ergonomics of the weapon, lightweight case technologies, signature suppression capabilities and Intelligent and powered rail designs through systems integration.

Lightweight Case Tech might include textron/lsat or an analogue of it

I don't get why a new caliber requires a new platform.
Anyone?

another blog spam.

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Probably, for all the recoil compensation mechanisms they need for the ridiculous muzzle energy goal.

thedrive.com/the-war-zone/27159/this-gun-paired-with-new-6-8mm-ammunition-could-be-the-armys-next-standard-issue-rifle
>However, the Army’s NGSW requirements call for any submissions to use a special 6.8mm cartridge, known as the XM1186, which has a traditional configuration.

LSAT's cased telescoped is already in development. Fuuuck it's gunna die if this traditional shit gets adopted

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Yeah, they'd better open up the registry again, or else!

Prediction: This will replace the M249 and eventually the M240, but not the M4. 6.8mm will become the caliber of choice for light support weapons, but 5.56mm will remain the mainstay for service rifles. Thoughts?

Wrong. 5.7 will be the new service rifle issue.

>Fuck it's gunna die if this traditional shit gets adopted.
There is the polymer/metal case from true velocity.

Its over FN, you had your chance in the early 2000s. Stop posting on Jow Forums.

I think they are going to try to fit a .338 in there somewhere. The prototype machine guns are pretty close to the 240 in weight, it's just the ammo that weights a lot more. Polymer-cased and a lead free bullet might get it closer to weight neutral.

We’re never replacing the M4. As others have said, maybe it’ll replace 7.62 and the M249, but the Army will be using 5.56 and the M4 a hundred years from now.

I wouldnt say 100 years from now, but I can see it in service well into the 2050s.

Ordering 100,000 of what, exactly? Is there even a prototype out there? Does the Army even know what it’s ordering or how it will do in tests? This story is bullshit all around.

The article doesn’t say there was an order tendered for these guns. It says the Army is “looking to buy” that many. That isn’t remotely the same thing. More hype and fake news bullshit from a clickbait industry rag.

The second article refers to it as an "Advanced lightweight cartridge", God only knows what that actually means.
Could mean polymer cases, just not CT. Could mean a super lightweight, high velocity projectile. It could be a new type of propellant requiring a much smaller case volume.
Whatever it is it's new and probably cool.

Yeah I think they're wanting to change 7.62 and .50 GPMG's(M240, M2 ect) to .338, it's USSOCOM and USMC that are wanting to anyways.

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It may displace some 7.62 weapons as well if the ballistics are good

I think it is probably more about 7.62, but the .50 aspect might help them sell the concept. If you wanted to really split the difference, you'd probably have to go larger.

This is a garbage article. It's typical us military shit. Promises super weapons, sets a vague timeline. This is the military industrial machine at work boys and girls. This is how they get their money and this is how officers get their six figure post retirement consulting gigs. I'm a firm believer that if a better alternative to brass existed that was somewhat cost effective it would already be on the civilian market. But the military has been promising an alternative for over 20 years... If they start shooting rounds as fast as they say then the barrels are going to be shot out quicker then shit. Again nothing on the high end civilian market indicates they've come up with that solution either. Let's put some pr out though to justify the piles of cash we're burning on this project though...

Chief of Staff of the Army Gen. Mark A. Milley on 10 April said that somewhere in the range of 100,000 of NGSW will initially be purchased for Soldiers who engage in close-quarters combat.

With the kind of money they have to spend i doubt they care about shot out barrels. They will just contract to buy them in mass quantity like mags. Great deal for the contractor.

As a guy who was issued a POS shot out m16, it's not the issue of buying barrels it's the physical activity of maintaining that many rifles. Actually getting qualified personnel to do the work so Joe doesn't blow his face off doing gunsmithing work. If they have a new design for a rifle to remedy that (barrel change operator level work) then it would be a big design improvement over the current m4.

Will standard AR pmags feed 6.8 spc?

Yes, but a 30 round PMAG only holds 10 and starts to bind at 7-8 stuffed in. So if you pinned it to Canada-spec 5 rounds, they'd probably feed.

thats disappointing to hear. Ive always been intrested in getting a 6.8. if it becomes a military standard alot of civilian are gonna have alot of double buying to do. I dont like the 300 black out but alteast its compatible with all my mags.

Which provides half the benefits

Don't worry these new rounds won't a magazine at all. They have a 1200 yard range, can punch through ar500 plates stacked 4 deep, instinctively travel to Target, and you don't need magazines for them bc you can just download them from a dod munitions cloud.

Ok
Now im sold!

Okay but that means nothing. What’s an NGSW? Is there a prototype for it? Is there a blueprint for it? Has one ever been tested? Has one ever been built? Does anyone know what it would look like? Does anyone know how it would perform? Just saying it’s an NGSW doesn’t tell anyone what the Army would actually be buying.

Yes you are right. It's straight up bullshit. It just rationalizes them spending millions of dollars on nothing. "Hey what's going on w that new small arms and munitions project?" "I think it's moving along, col dickhead said in some magazine they were gonna start field tests soon" "oh give them a call and check in on their progress then" and the months roll on and the military industrial complex feeds...

Anyone remember the xm25? I saw that shit in middle School in popular science, figured it'd be my generation's m16, then I realized it was just a way for contractors to bilk us tax payers out of millions

caseless ammo is a retarded idea that will result in faulty ammo

>what happens if it's abused in any way
>what happens in drastic temp changes
>what happens in humid environment

Nah bro, ~~the SPIW~~ ~~the ACR~~ ~~the OICW~~ ~~the XM8~~ ~~the Land warrior~~ ~~the Individual Carbine~~ ~~the ICSR~~ the NGSW is the real deal.

You're right hundreds of millions of dollars.

NGSW is the program.There is no one weapon system. There is only the standardized cartridge. SIG and Textron are the only two names I've seen thrown out, Textron's stuff seems to be based on their LSAT CT guns, while SIG is basing theirs on the MCX.
Now here's where it gets weird. There was six contracts awarded to five companies back in July of last year for the new SAW type prototypes. Those companies included General Dynamics, Textron, and SIG as well. So expect at least three more infantry rifle type weapons to pop out for the NSGW-R competition.
The NSGW-AR contracts, the SAW replacement, could be in Army hands by summer. The 100k I still have no clue how it fits into this.

The new caliber will not be 6.8 SPC. The standard for the new ammo is going to approach .300WM energy and use polymer cased telescoped ammo. 6.8 SPC is just a heavier 5.56 and would never, ever make the switch for the very minor benefits it offers such as better velocities out of short barrels or slightly better ammo composition.

It's way too fast and we've heard nary a peep about any test details. I think those insiders might be getting programs mixed up here. Perhaps this 100k acquisition is some kind of field test run for the new *bullet*. Fit a new upper with this new round in conventional case format, see how it works out.

There is another thing bugging me about the acquisition. They say its for "close combat" personnel at the moment (they doing live fire training with it?), but from everything we have been told about this 6.8 magnum-ish cartridge it would be better to test its limits out on wide open spaces. Perhaps its to see if the crazy loading is uncontrollable when used in the same manner as 5.56?

Maybe this is some serious smoke and mirrors for something else going on?

The main concern that's driving the push for a high pressure 6.8 cartridge is armor penetration, not distance. They are worried about potential opponents having decent armor now and they don't have a reliable supply of tungsten to just give everyone M993/M995. They considered using a tungsten penetrator on the M855A1 but they quickly realized that they'd burn through the strategic reserve of tungsten in a year or so. It's also why the Interim Combat Service Rifle program died so quickly because they realized .308 didn't really do that much better for armor penetration, especially considering the costs in weight, recoil, and capacity, etc. The better range of the 6.8 is definitely a benefit that they will boast about to help push the program through but it's not as important as punching through Ratnik gear at like 300 meters and in

>approaching 300WM energy

user you know physics is a thing right? The army cant magic a new intermediete cartridge with these specs.

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here you fags go
>your welcome

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those would be 50 rounds of 6.5 using a very normal p90-style mag
>26 OAL
>16 barrel
>ar ergonomics
>ends up 1" wider than p90, and 6" longer or ps90 length

why 6.8?
>I WANT A 270 LIKE MY DEER GUN BUT FASTER, FLAT SHOOTER, DROPS EM DEAD GOOD I TELL YOU HWAT

Who said anything about it being an intermediate cartridge?

Nigga, we going back to battle rifles.

there are hmx and adn based "powders"
existing 65000 psi is brass limit
polymer cases allow for faster powders
mass and velocity give you an energy which gives you a powder
bullet shape based on range goals give you a barrel length for a given powder
cartridge shape gives you efficiency and packaging requirements
explosive powders negate the above within the current frame of reference
suppose 100,000 psi is possible with the cases, barrels can be shorter, and cartridges can be any shape
if they use existing powders, then they are only gaining mass and volume benefits from messing with the case, so not much is gained except maybe fitting 7.62 in 5.56 size and mass... barrels and whatnot don't change much although could get a bit shorter, so loadout just becomes 5lbs lighter due to ammo mass reduction
think of it like telling wildcatters they get 30% more pressure in the case, some minor changes to the rifles are seen but mostly just ammo mass/volume benefits.

>The U.S. Army is looking to buy somewhere in the range of 100,000 of a very capable, lethal rifles under the Next Generation Squad Weapons (NGSW) program and 6.8-millimeter ammunition.

No they won't. This is XM-8 program all over again.
PS: Reddit specially dedicated to you faggots.

>This is XM-8 program all over again.
At most it will be a M4 that fires a new ceaseless round.

100,000 weapons. Not 100,000 rounds.

>order 100k to test
>thinking it's happening

Oh my sweet summer child, the .gov has 3 billion rounds of 5.56 in stored FWIW.

this makes my dick diamonds.

A caseless or case telescoped round would require a vastly different operating system, so it wouldn't be an M4 any longer. An AR is really defined by its upper and action, not its lower.

That said, one of the rifle prototypes shown by Textron had 100% AR controls, charging handle in the same old dumb place and all.

Open the link ya dum dum

who makes the rifle.

>The second article refers to it as an "Advanced lightweight cartridge", God only knows what that actually means.
Most likely it's the three-piece "hybrid" cartridge that SIG have showed off.
Steel (or maybe aluminium) base, brass body. 25% reduction in weight (whether that's compared to an all-brass 6.8 cartridge or just 7.62, I don't know)

These will make ammo cheaper eventually yes? And better for environment?

I'm down for that. Considering shooting black powder recently for cost and environment.

270 cartirdge is a brother to the 30-06. 6.8 shares the bullet, nothing more

Its about overmatch and defeating body armor.

308ar.com/army-new-6-8-mm-round-becoming-reality/

>6.8 shares the bullet
and it's an odd bullet to choose with little development lately and probably a lower bc than 6.5mm or 6mm. 6.8 is a strange pick to me unless they were still obsessed with the 6.8 spc of the past still being the future

There might be a certain bullet weight target they are after. It may be too long in a lead free if the caliber were smaller.

Internet heresay was they wanted a ~130gr 6.5mm bullet but couldn't get it to fit length wise on an all copper bullet, so they went with a slightly shorter, fatter bullet.

This is the absolute truth that none of us wants to face. They really fucking nailed the logistical weapon for frontline troops in the m4 platform/5.56. love it or hate it, it's not going anywhere. Maybe lighter ammunition. Maybe s few tweaks, but it's not going anywhere. Forever. It's the m2 of small arms.

Does XM1186 really refer to a traditional cartridge and not 6.8mm polymer-cased-telescoped?
All the reports so far have said they like the PCT designs for NGSW (including Textron's), not the alloy-cased designs.
In fact how do we even know XM1186 actually exists and isn't just a placeholder name for whichever NGSW-AR cartridge they pick?
It makes zero sense to ask manufacturers to submit prototypes using 5 totally different cartridges if they already know which one they want.

No, they're just going to make every new weapon look exactly like an AR so they can keep the same manual of arms until the end of time.

I hope it's BS, as these articles normally are. Imagine clearing rooms with a long, bulky 6.8 that's basically a magnum SAW.

The sane answer would be to keep M4's at the individual level, and unify ammo between SAWs and GPMGs instead of SAWs and carbines - probably with a 6.5 polymer CT.

Nothing wrong with AR charging handle, in fact it's superior to knuckle scraping side charger.

seems like a lot of extra bs to go wrong

It's no more complicated than existing belt feds. The push through design is supposed to be really easy to clear stuck rounds

>It's no more complicated than existing belt feds.
apart from the whole cartridge assembly hinge feeder thing I guess sure lmao

Your average basic bitch ceramic level IV armor stops 30 06 AP rounds. Our enemies already have this as standard kit.

Do they honestly think this 6.8 meme round will penn more than that? This is all vaporware hype

thats a big guy

This is nothing more than a 21st century Stoner 63. It will never leave any lasting impression

Nope. Ammo uniformity between SAW's and rifle's. 7.62 NATO is not going anywhere yet.

China does not, lol. Line troops dont have armor, half dont even have radios.

If it goes super fast. At some point you need mass to penetrate and not just velocity, hence going up in size & weight from 5.56, but if you can keep it going fast then the dual improvement in both attributes might be enough.

Of course, the round as described for months now seems like it will kick like crazy. No way should it be even remotely comparable to intermediate cartridges if they want that kind of AP performance without using tungsten.

It depends upon the construction of the armor. Penetration is a function of velocity and sectional density *if* the armor is a malleable material: soft body armor and metal (it's just a lot less malleable). Rigid materials like ceramics dont respond in the same way as metal because they are for more resistant to deforming (breaking the molecular bonds). In that case it really is a matter of smashing power, delivering enough energy on target to break the ceramic. Composite body armor is a thing and it combines the benefits of both materials. Currently it's mostly just metal backed ceramics, which can be defeated with a big ass lead projectile wrapping a tungsten core. The issue is when layered steel/ceramic plates come around.

Textron’s Prender on Making Ammo Lighter, More Lethal

m.youtube.com/watch?v=JhRhSWTeHYo

Yeah, picking the inferior option over 6.5 Grendel, because actually picking the best option terrifies the Army

.338 is even dumber, it gives a very, very minor performance increase in a barely relevant field

You want antimaterial function? Go up to 12.7mm or go to grenades and missiles fired out of grenade launchers

>all copper bullet,
Because copper coated steel core steel case is hard, and because the Pentagon is too lazy to hire some scoops to wipe their ass for them

You could have ammo uniformity between rifles, SAWs and GPMGs with SAW just being shorter barreled GPMGs, with a competent bullpup design, quick change barrel and 6.5 Grendel ammunition

At :30 it says fully consumed-no case to eject, but at :51 it shows an ejection port and later it shows the case being ejected.
What am i missing.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=WlM8IHij6Hs

/thread

and if you had been watching 5 seconds earlier, it shows you the cased ammo, that does require and ejection port.

>>However, the Army’s NGSW requirements call for any submissions to use a special 6.8mm cartridge, known as the XM1186, which has a traditional configuration.

This author either doesn't understand the difference between a bullet and a cartridge or is simply being fake news.

SOCOM is interested in .338 MG for niche roles, like a light vehicle where the weight of an M2 is undesireable.

>This is XM-8 program all over again

If you were actually familiar with the XM8 program you would understand how dumb you sound.

Sig's case head looks like Shell Shock, which would imply nickel plated aluminium.

The 6.8 bullet the Army is using is a VLD design, think of 5.56 vs .224 Valk.

>Your average basic bitch ceramic level IV armor stops 30 06 AP rounds.

1930's era .30-06 steel core.

>Our enemies already have this as standard kit.

No they don't.

Do you understand the relationship between bullet length for a given weight and the material used?