Why are Anglos so bad at designing SMGs?

>anglo smgs are bad
What did you just say about the Sterling?

>Right-o, round up the orphans and get the apple boxes, we've got a bevy o' the ole Scrobs to stamp out on the willy werkers and clangers

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Not him but it was cheap to manufacture like the STEN, didn't require the large initial investment that stampings like the M3 did (important as Australia had like 5% of the population America did at the time), due to its double chamber reciever that helps keep debris out of the action and top mounted the magazine to help keep debris out while also allowing gravity to assist feeding and not using a crappy mag design like the STEN it was exceptionally reliable even in the Pacific Theater that wreaked havoc with other weapons like the Thompson. Didn't have a stock as crappy as the M3 too, which is nice.
It was the Diggers Darling for a reason, and well liked by non-Australians that used it as well. They still were using the things in Vietnam.

the gun weighed almost ten fucking pounds, at that weight it better fucking be reliable

The Grease Gun only weighed about half a pound less when both were loaded. The MP40 was around the same. The PPSh was 9.5lbs, and that's with the 35 round box mag, not the drum. The M1A1 was fucking 10lbs empty.
Most submachine guns of the era were heavy. The Owen is pretty much average in that regard.
Doesn't help that SMGs were mostly straight blowback and need a 2lb bolt for basic operation.

Have you seen the shit anglos design? Just look at their airplanes.

>posted as the P-51 was saved by an anglo engine

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You'd expect them to have learned the lesson after the germans employed it in ww1; during the interwar period even small south american countries were buying smgs

sterling?

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>t. sinking Italian

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Gun
Fuck me this is beautiful, anymore interesting gun histories?

KEK

Based Grease Gun poster

That looks better, probably by then was given a chance to mature. It only got limited action WW2, though.

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*SMG design [was given a chance]

The Allison V-1710 was better than the Merlin in everything except high alt performance,the Merlin only was used because somehow USAAF was even more retarded than the anglos and didn't develop a supercharger for it.

You should've bragged about something actually good and innovative your compatriots made,like the MetroVic F.2,you dumb anglo.

Gentle reminder, the bongs had a jet engine fighter (Gloucester Meteor) in service before the seppos did.

>The Allison V-1710 was better than the Merlin in everything except high alt
Explain. A brief 'pedo survey tells me it had a turbo for high alt work, although development was apparently troubled.

Nonsense, put custom furniture on that shit and put a price tag of 15-2000 (as semi auto) and id buy it
Its not like you're ruining it anyhow because you can just take off the wood about anywhere since it wouldnt be structural

>In 2004, an underground weapons factory was seized in Melbourne, Australia, yielding, among other things, a number of silenced copies of the Owen submachine gun
>legal guns are too hard to get
>might as well build suppressed full autos
Gun control, not even once.

Turbo V-1710s were used in P-38s and that's it. All the other versions were either unboosted (early variants) or had single stage blowers. Had Allison been given the necessary resources, they definitely could have developed a better supercharger for the engine.

The assumption with the sterling and owen was that these would be used primarily from prone positions or from trenches so the idea was that the magazines wouldn't get in the way of someone laying down on the ground or trying to balance it over the top of a trench lip.
General british doctrine was that if you needed a machine gun you got a machine gun, to the extent that they invented the bren gun carrier - arguably the first APC - rather than just give infantry slightly smaller machine guns.
It makes a bit more sense when you consider that the idea was that infantry would always move alongside infantry tanks, and tanks would always move in support of infantry, and this was How War Was Done, and the high command and especially churchill was gonna make war work like that if it killed them.
What changed things was the imminent threat of invasion by the germans made them all suddenly think "hey, what if we made a really cheap and small SMG that we could just arm irregulars with en masse so that germans would have to deal with every little old lady in the country full auto hosing them down with lead?".

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>gun control means more ready access to full auto firearms
>Right To Bears Arms means no one has full autos

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so what is the "everything else" then?

Don't forget that even when it was phased out, it was replaced with the F1, which is a nearly identical slightly improved version of it.

We made the Sterling, no one gives that gun bad rep.

Nah, F1.

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>Literally the best SMG of WWII.

That's not how you spell PPS-43
>cheap
>lighter than most of it's contemporaries
>7.62x25 speedy bois
>exceptionally reliable magazines

The Owen was probably better given the environment it was deployed in, it had several features that made it extremely reliable in harsh jungle environments. The action is more or less sealed off, similar to modern firearms like the AR-15. The inverted magazine probably helped some too. I would imagine issues where the follower rusts to the magazine body where less common. 7.62x25's strengths probably don't shine through quite as well in close range jungle warfare.

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>implying the Owen sub machine gun was bad
user all the countries at that time were fielding cheap sub machine guns that ran. That’s what the Owen sub machine gun is, a mass produced bullet hose. The concept is no different from the Sten or the Grease gun.

The owen was certainly nicer than a sten, the sten had several prominent flaws. The owen's arguably better than the grease gun, but both are solid designs.

I would be interested to see how the PPS did in sand and jungle and the Owen in places with a real winter.

The F1 isn't a bad gun at all, realistically they could have probably stayed in service another 10-12 years as they are a relatively 'modern' gun with dual stage trigger, fairly light and easy to control. About the only real killer was they get old and a bit sloppy, plus like most open bolts there's a good chance of shooting yourself once in a while. Very reliable too.
Lot of them ended up all over the place, Malaysia, Zimbabwe and scattered through some of the SEA nations.

Best thing about the top feed mags is that little bit of gravity assist on the spring and if you go planting yourself in the dirt, firing from prone it keeps the mag from getting mashed into the mud or otherwise being in the way. Owen's are a fairly large gun and pretty agricultural things really but they're built to a cost- think something like an Owen in the 1940's would run you about $20-30 and a Thompson was about $70-80 with all the extra machining and components that had to go into them.
Much as people hate on the Sten's (quite rightly- they are fucking horrible) they are staggeringly cheap at about the time you're buying a $70 Thompson, you can buy 6 sten guns

Both the Owen and F1 are still in armouries here and there, mostly as examples of 'cheap arse guns' to familiarise troops with in cross training and just relics of old timey days that haven't been binned yet for whatever reason.

>Both the Owen and F1 are still in armouries here and there
The US military still fields m3 grease guns, because they are too cheap to throw anything away, and they fit inside vehicles better.

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More than likely there's some of our navy armouries that have an F1 squirreled away somewhere, they really loved them.
I remember talking to some marines ages ago still dragging around their M16A2s and having a laugh at the old girl, they're a fucking nice rifle. Heck when we needed some longer range rifles in Afghan we gave the fellas a call here and said 'yes, something in 7.62 please and quick'
Next fat bird that landed just dropped all these modernised M14's that someone 'borrowed' off the yanks around Vietnam and never really gave back

>Just look at their airplanes
Like the Spitfire, Mosquito and Lancaster, you mean? Ugly, ineffective machines all.
>/irony

>Had Allison been given......they definitely could.......
But they weren't, didn't and you've no evidence that they could to support your baseless assertion. Get over the fact that, until the Merlin saved it, the P51 was a paperweight

>Anglos

Try again

>Nigel: I've made the ugliest rootytooty point and shoot
>Pauly: hold my spaghetti

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Tbh Anglos are the most jewified peoples, as soon as the plebs get involved they try to save money in all directions even if it means plated silver dinnerware and glass bead jewelry.

They can make nice things - this before WWII in small numbers to satisfy a few toffs and in-groupers. Its well made, if bit old fashioned. Also a knockoff.

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The Sten wasn't great, but it was what it needed to be, a Scrobbily Wobblington which could be made really fast and really cheap, because they needed all the subguns they could get right that second.
Quality varied due to many being made in small workshops, and the magazine design was copied from the MP40, which didn't have a very good magazine, so they're by no means the best of their kind.

The later Sterling, however, was a much better take on the Scrobbily Wobblington, being properly factory made, and actually feature a pretty good new magazine design.
If you want another example of that kind of gun done really well, you also have the American M3A1 Greasegun, it imitated the magazine design of the Sten, but it was all properly factory made, and much more consistent in quality and reliability.
The Greasegun wasn't hurried the fuck into literally whatever production was available in an absolute "Oh shit, oh shit, oh shit!" moment, however.

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someone has been making luty smgs and selling them to criminals in WA for about a decade now and the police have 0 leads on it

Good

I always found it amusing that the Germans actually managed to SIMPLIFY the Sten gun even more.

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In all likelihood a bunch of different people are doing that.

>1 produced per man-hour of labor
That is just ridiculous.

Otto Skorzeny, the head of the Germany's special forces, praised the sten gun and said Germany should develop something similar. Light, cheap and easy to train someone on it was good enough. It wasn't designed to last a lifetime, it was a weapon built to fight and win a war in the next 5 years, not sit in an armory and be passed from soldier to soildier for 50 years.

You wicked piece of vicious tin!
Call you a gun? Don’t make me grin.
You’re just a bloated piece of pipe.
You couldn’t hit a hunk of tripe.
But when you’re with me in the night,
I’ll tell you, pal, you’re just alright!

Another point about the sterlings mag is that instead of a bent piece of sheet metal for a follower it has two rollers that roll the cartridges into the stripping position. I can't think of any other firearm that uses something even similar to that

I can't decide which is a cooler way to rack the bolt, the M3's ratchet or the A1's fingerhole

I dunno, why are G*rms so bad at fighting wars?

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> this before WWII
the lanchester was produced from 1941 dude

I worked in the HMAS Stirling armoury in 2007 and there were still serviceable SLRs in the racks. No idea on F1s but likely tucked away somewhere.

Fuck off Slav, you've lived here most of your life. Spiritually Anglo'd.