Is it true the suppressor companies are lobbying against the HPOa and related bills...

there would be more customers if the product was easily attainable retard.

It doesnt matter why it is dumb ass. the point is no one should buy them at the ridiculous prices. You even have shitty basic cans going for 500 dollars and goyim like you buying them.

Used surefire cans for 700 what a bargain!

Excise tax is same as on firearms, regulation limits the market but there is still no reason to pay that much for a god damn metal tube.

>people shouldn't!
>but they still do
A mystery, truly.

>there would be more customers if the product was easily attainable retard.
Except it won't ever be while theres a 200 dollar tax on it, fuckwit.
Nobody wants to spend $300 on a shitty direct thread suppressor just to have it walk, get a strike and be a write off.
And with the restrictions and barrier to entry theres not enough scale to support making actually good suppressors significantly cheaper.
This isn't theoretical, trying to sell low priced suppressors fails.

The options are no suppressor or an expensive one. Assuming a consumer wants a suppressor, who exactly does it help to not buy one? It's not going to make them cheaper. It's not going to get them less regulated. What's the point?
>Excise tax is same as on firearms,
Except the excise on a $80 suppressor would bump it to $88, not $280. Hi Points wouldn't survive a $200 tax stamp either.

The tax stamp is on the user not the mfg

Anyone with even basic lathing skill realizes how little it takes to make a decent suppressor. Hell, you dont even need a lathe to make an acceptable one.

>because the artificially inflated pricing due to NFA status would wreck their profit margins?
No. It doesn't work like that. Right now, if you spend $400 on a suppressor, the government takes $200, and the manufacturer only gets $200

With suppressors removed from the NFA, you can pocket $100, and buy a $300 suppressor instead -- and they'd rather sell you a $300 suppressor than a $200 one.

Sure, there's the low-end market that's currently suppressed by the tax. But that's expanding the market, not replacing the current market; the customer who would buy a $80 suppressor isn't currently paying $400 for a $200 suppressor+stamp; he's just not buying suppressors.

Well I mean stellite is expensive, so is 17-4 tubing. Machining stellite is also not easy and they machine suppressors to very fine fits and usually weld the baffles together. Then you have overhead and also cost of warranties which for some of them are no questions asked warranties.

Is direct thread really bad? I’m doing a bunch of direct thread form1s, would do quick detach with griffin brakes but that adds like 120$ cost to each one.

The only reason I'd see this being that case.
Is they'd want to keep the market small so that it doesn't give incentive for other companies to make competition.

nah its fine, just remember to make sure its tight periodically, direct thread suppressors can sometimes start to walk out from the force of the gun firing

no because people would just buy more suppressors

Are you really arguing that the cost of the tax stamp doesn't impact buyer behavior?
A Hi Point is ~$200 msrp, a tax stamp would double their cost to customer. Now many of the people in the $200 price range are priced out - the ones that can't afford more, the ones that wanted a low financial risk entry into guns, the ones that wanted it on a lark etc.
And not everyone that was is the $400 market, which was already significantly smaller than the $200 market anyway, stays in it. A percentage of them were buying for a minimum capability/quality (CCing a hi point is terrible for example) and either are priced out or have to move up.
The net result of all this is Hi Point has fewer customers, and so less economy of scale, which means higher priced guns and fewer customers meaning higher prices etc.
And the higher cost you go the less impact it has. People will haggle for $50 off a laptop but do not care at all about saving the same on a new car.
They're ok, but a lot depends on the material and manufacture. As they heat up, they expand and with the recoil they can back out. If they do enough to wobble, you can get baffle strikes. As the other user said, you can just reach forward and tighten them, but they'll also be fucking hot and it will burn you if you're an idiot about it.
That said I have seen a particularly shit one with poor threading expand enough that you could put it off with a little force

It is not that expensive and most aren't made with anything special. 99 percent of the time its aluminum, ss, or titanium at most. Nothing justifying the price they fetch at all.

I didnt say it didnt effect the product demand, I'm saying the price still doesnt reflect what you are actually getting.

I’m using sdta grade 9 titanium mounts, their old design.
What about adding a flat washer? Also maybe adding a heat resistant but heavy friction glove to my inventory Incase I need to relighten it?

Ok but the ones made out of the material I talked about, is that worth it? Even with pistol cans the baffles are 17-4 h900 and they’re usually very very thin with tight fittings. Surely it is expensive to make 12 17-4 baffles so thin and with such a precision?

Not familiar with how much that raw material is. I doubt its worth remotely what they ask or that its much harder to work with than anything else though.

>thin and precise

I'm not aware of any design that requires insane precision. You have safety margins even in commercial designs.

Satellite is very expensive and it’s several times harder to machine than 17-4 and then There’s a complex heat treat.
Precision means right fitting parts which means less wear, less baffle strikes, less things getting generally loose and thin baffles also means less weight.

>less baffle strikes

Even commercial cans that I have seen measured have similar tolerances to what many make in their form 1 cans as far as bullet opening precision goes. Nothing special there. No one is going to make something super tight that will wear and risk a baffle strike for marginal differences.

Your material may very well be harder to work with than something like 416r but I still very much doubt it is worth what they ask for it. Then theres also the question of whether its even worth the extra money or if it's all marketing and hype.

If its like inconel then I dont think it is price warranted. Even inconel I think is under 10 dollars per pound

I dont buy the hype in this shit. Especially not the people who insist there is a high R&D cost to making these things. None of the designs are revolutionary or somehow requiring lots of R&D.

You may be right about working with stellite, I dont know about that, but even if you are I doubt it warrants the cost for just a suppressor and further that's one single suppressor material out of the whole market. A material that I think only one company uses too right?

Plenty use stellite, rugged, silencerco, dead air etc.
it’s several times more expensive and either just as hard to machine or worse.
It’s very corrosion resistant and retains strength over temperature really well and it’s very abrasion resistant. Couple this with a 17-4 tube and the suppressor is bomb proof. Will basically last forever.

And how much is stellite per pound? It sounds not dissimilar to inconel.

>will basically last forever

I would expect that from multitudes of materials. Titanium as well.

It’s hard to tell because i can’t find anyone selling bar stock that doesn’t sell only over the phone but probably like 20-40.
And again, more difficult to machine though I’ve read some makers stamp baffles out(not dead air).
Titanium doesn’t nearly have the tensile strength or hardness of stellite, it loses that quijclynwith the rise in temps and not only that but titanium is very reactive and will spark and deteriorate fairly quickly.

Tensile strength and hardness isnt all that relevant here, titanium will last a life time as a baffle.

If you dont like titanium there are plenty of choices, inconel too as mentioned.

>20-40

thats quite a bit. Again though I doubt it justifies the price.

I think people should make their own and form 1, or just not register it at all instead of giving these suppressor jews and the gov money.

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Hardness is relevant to baffle erosion and tensile strength to plastic deformation or bursting when talking about the tube.
Again, titanium doesn’t last. It’s reactive and when it’s sand blasted by a gun shot it also then ignites and sparks. This is worse with higher pressure rounds and gets worse as it heats up.
For 900-1000 I think stellite with 17-4 ss is worth it

>900-1000 dollars

Jesus Christ. I can buy two fucking guns with higher tolerances for that price. I will never pay that much for a god damn metal tube.

I havent seen titanium fail as early as you make it sound, and either way as I said there are other materials.

Still a better deal than getting jewed on optics lIke with acogs.
At the very least the materials used are legitimately expensive and are very hard to machine. You would never ever be able to make it at home anywhere near the price of what you can get commercially. Crrtisnky no where near the quality because it needs to be heat treated properly.

>Crrtisnky no where near the quality because it needs to be heat treated properly.

What?

Also the requirements for a suppressor aren't nearly as demanding as you make it seem, especially if youre making your own and can just replace the baffles. Inb4 atf reeeeeeing.

I dont think any of this shit that you are proposing would exist outside of the absolute biggest Gucci paypigs if it weren't for regulations.

I agree optics are a rip off too, so are triggers. Especially things like the binary triggers.

Also, talonite seems to be a similar cobalt alloy that is more widespread. Im still not convinced this sort of thing is needed at all or that the price is justified but at the very least IF you spend money on it it is better than spending that much on bog standard SS or something.

That isnt saying much however.

Off topic but how much do you guys figure it actually cost to make an acog? And I mean at cost, where they wouldn’t lose any money but wouldn’t make any.

I dont want to speculate. Maybe the other user here
Knows more on that than I do. Acogs are harder to understand and more complex than suppressors.

He is a fat finger phkne poster.
Auto com ppl lete is a bitch.

And I'm still repeating what I said in my first post. The tax kills economies of scale while also pushes companies away from cheap and easy designs because they don't sell, leading to higher prices less choice than you'd get in an unregulated market.
If you think you can offer a better deal to customers and stay profitable in the current environment, do it and dominate the market.

Im saying that regardless of the reasons that price is disgusting to charge and shouldn't be bought. Id rather see the market for Gucci shit be nob existent and people make their own, preferably not stamped, until the laws change. Same with full auto firearms.

The point I disagree with though is that it seems like youre implying that cheaper designs dont last, I disagree with that. You do not need a cobalt alloy to make a lasting quality suppressor.

>Having a tax that's exactly the cost of the item you are buying is better for the market than having almost no tax on that item at all

Dude h'what?

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Or there's a huge fucking government barrier that effectively cuts the market into a single digit percentile of the total gun and firearms market.

It is a catch 22 to suppressor businesses between increased market entries by other businesses that would drive down market share but the consumer base would increase by magnitudes. The suppressor market would look something akin to the optics market if suppressors are ever deregulated.

user, that's basically exactly what he's saying.

Imagine selling a million $80 suppressors instead of a thousand $800+$200 suppressors.

But they wouldn't be the ones selling those millions of suppressors. The current small, boutique companies would be blown out of the water by waves of chinkshit.

Kevlar machine gunner's glove. Do not get it wet while in use or it will steam roast your hand.