lehighdefense.com/index.php?_route_=all/311-ap-ts-155gr-bullet look at this shit. Not for civilians, even though it is our god given right to have ap ammo. Only boot lickers dont want you to have a way to take out the jack booted thugs wearing body armor but oh of course theyll have this ammo to kill you.
Lehigh can easily make a bullets that are AP but not legally ap. Use some obscure alloy or legal loophole or just make the ap element of the projectile legal by having it be less than 25 percent of the weight. a 180 grain 308 with a 44 grain penetrator tip made from tungsten carbide would be very effective but no they wont make a civilian legal product. everyone talks about bump stocks and machine guns and sbrs etc but what we really need to tackle is this bullshit ap ammo law. ap ammo is crucial towards resisting the state if need be and we need to get back the cheap steel core surplus ammo. also, m2 ap is actually legal to make. someone could fire up and start making m2 but no one does even though its exempted.
legal definition is based on alloy and weight, completely bullshit too which is why steel core ammo is banned and they classify every single fucking caliber as a pistol caliber which the law only covers to be able to ban ap ammo flat out and also ban cheap steel core surplus).
Have said this before and I’ll say it again. 30-06 tungsten core bullets can be purchased. 30-06 bullets can be loaded into 308 brass. Tungsten core 308 can Pierce level IV armor. The government says it’s illegal to have AP 308 so this is only for educational purposes :^)
Jacob Jenkins
But it could be used to kill cops and soldiers though. Why would you want anyone to be able to have that.
Nigger, did you not read? That’s the whole point of this, to be able to kill cops and soldiers if need be. If some piece of shit cops swat your house by mistake, complete negligence, you should have the capability of wasting all of them even if they’re wearing body armor. No, they’re not and if they’re acfually tungsten core they’re like 30 bucks a piece. They’re steel core, ie m2 ap as I mentioned in my post. Won’t go through level 4 u less in 300 rum and not as good as tungsten stuff and expensive nowadays.
Anthony Bell
>Why would you want anyone to be able to have that. it could be used to kill cops and soldiers
Daniel Gomez
>The government says it’s illegal to have AP 308
No they don't. The AP ammo sales ban (not ownership) only covers "handgun" cartridges. They stretch that definition as far as we stretch the definition of a handgun, but I'm pretty sure .308 doesn't count yet.
Brody Carter
It does, you have the encore pistols in 308, you have 308 ar10 pistols, you have 300 blackout pistols(defined by caliber and projectiles and not by cartridge so even if no one ever made 308 pistols if they made 300 blackout pistols it would be considered now an ap caliber).
Robert Cook
been really thinking on 9mm sabots something like a carbide .224 or smaller diameter penetrator going fuckhueg velocities should do the trick
Jonathan Johnson
Also, it’s not just sales, it’s manufscturing and importing. Sure, if someone sells you post 82 or 86 ap ammo, or whenever the law passed, you can keep it but you can’t make any of your own projectiles or import anything from overseas.
Cooper Fisher
>Ammo companies won't sell me AP bullets directly >None of the big-name armor companies, even the ones with their own web stores, will sell me their good plates directly if I'm not a welfare queen or a pig.
The second one is an even bigger gay IMO, but at least we can get plates second hand.
Noah Fisher
you've got to be retarded to waste AP bullets on .300 short and weak
Jace Hughes
You’re missing the point. It’s .308 caliber and if someone made a pistol in it it is now restricted from anyone manufacturing ap ammo for that caliber. Also, I would love subsonic ap 300 blackout or even super sonic. Tungsten carbide is amazing at penetration, even at low velocities.
Nathaniel King
I want IMI Purple Tip and I want it NOW!
Liam Howard
Lmao really? What’s their excuse?
Alexander Jones
>The government says it’s illegal to have AP 308 Since when? AFAIK it's only illegal to have AP ammo in a pistol caliber. That was the whole basis for trying to ban M855, because .223 pistols exist.
Isaiah Thomas
Legal liability, probably. One fudd store I looked at would sell to "civilians," but.only if you faxed him a copy of your DL and carry permit.
Blake Barnes
Read AndAnd it’s only illegal to manufacture or import the projectiles, not buy or own.
Eli Davis
So buy it from them. If hes the one guy willing to do it then support him and maybe more retailers will catch on and do that too. If youre buying online then its already easily traced to you, I get thats its extra hassle thats not legally required but thats whats up.
Adam Diaz
No, I mean companies like Troy or 3M won't sell you their plates directly despite having their own web stores, but secondary retailers that buy from them will sell them to you. It's fucking stupid.
Wyatt Parker
First Spear, not Troy.
Carson Nguyen
All things considered is it better to try and shoot through armor or around it?
Lucas Kelly
Are you the guy that kept claiming 10mm +P was illegal? Because I think you are actually autistic.
Easton Brown
Both
>two in the chest >the face gets the rest
Dominic Anderson
law enforcement agencies should be bound by the same laws as everyone in their jurisdiction
Luis Gonzalez
Based.
Eli Rivera
This, a friend of mine that moved from comifornia showed me his leo friend from cali, his ar was uncucked. So I why is everyone else treated as second class citizens?
Asher Barnes
since its so hard to get ap 308 into circulation, why not try to get ap pistol rounds into circulation? is there any way to legally buy pistol cartridge length 308? are there any guns that are chambered in that kind of caliber?
>logic is atf will never suspect ap 308 coming from a handgun or carbine
AP pistol ammo is exactly what the laws ban Anytime a "pistol" is made in a traditional rifle caliber all ammo is thus deemed pistol ammo and AP
Same shit happened with 7n6 >7n6 is imported with steel core >nobody wants a repeat of 7.62x39 so nobody makes 5.45 pistols >someone allegedly attempted to import polish 5.45 smg (looks like an uzi, i forget model off top of head) in semi auto >ATF sees this as reason enough to declare 5.45 pistol ammo >7n6 banned for import
Angel Bennett
Oh part of the reason you are not allowed surplus 7.62x39 is because olympic arms made a 7.62x39 AR pistol and all mild steel core 7.62x39 was declared pistol ammo and by pistol definitions of AP it was thus banned from import.
So anytime you see an olympic arms rifle make sure you spit on it.
Tyler Allen
>Definition of lvl4 is being able to stop .30-06 M2AP >The same bullet going slower will penetrate lvl4 What did he mean by this?
You could put over a quarter ounce of explosive powder into a pistol projectile and it would be illegal without the proper loicenses
Owen Howard
This is literally almost all business. 3M sells in bulk to retail stores and goverments/entities because selling individual items to civilians would cost them more money than they'd make.
Liam Peterson
didn't they cuck out and quit selling solid copper 5.7 projectiles?
Angel Clark
Through, people like to whine and cry about how ap is nessecary but the reality is that plates are small and bullets hit hard, armor or not.
You shoot at a guy center mass in level III or IV with a couple rounds of .308 or even 5.56 and he's feeling it. The fact that a lot of the silhouette like his gun, arms, shoulders, and legs aren't protected; it really puts the fact that armor is just there the keep you alive and not in the fight into perspective.
Jordan Turner
No.
Connor Ramirez
No you can still buy those from multiple vendors
Jayden Jenkins
Nm I was thinking of Barnes 45gr Banded Solid bullet in .223 being turned and loaded into 5.7.
Anthony White
>god given right
Elijah Wilson
>He says while living in a country literally founded by killing soldiers.
Grayson Gutierrez
put pulled pork on the menu
Cooper White
Why does the tail of that aircraft have the Purina logo on it?
You can buy armor from Highcom directly, as a civillian and it is used by multiple agencies, and is just as high quality as Hesco. You just have to send them your ID after the order to prove your a real boy. And multiple onlines stores will sell you any other armor, just check the sticky on gear queer.
Sebastian Nelson
I always found it weird people didnt mention ap ammo and the like more, especially in regards to the 5.7
I had always it was because of the weird amount of bootlicking thin blue line fags in the gun world.
Samuel Ward
very good thread OP, this issue we almost never talk about but it really is very important. I would like to read more about what options are out there for armor penetration, but the firearms industry isn't very interested in it.
I am currently planning to build a 300winmag as my next bolt gun, and I have about 500 30-06 steel core projectiles I can turn into my AP ammo, as I'm pretty sure a steel core projectile going that fast will go through any personal armor. I also have 90 rounds of the m855a1 (planning on finding some more of that), 2k rounds of 7n6, and 2k rounds of LAP green tip for if someone wants to take my guns. I've been looking at solid copper bullets to make a .243 AR with AP rounds as a battle rifle that would defeat armor at a distance.
Sebastian Gutierrez
M2AP loaded to 300wm still wont beat level4. theres yt vids of it
Cameron Anderson
>why woukd you wanna do that Fucking retard, when they finally push too far thats who you’re going to HAVE to be killing
Zachary Sullivan
Why do all of this extra shit when you could just get a 10mm?
After head shots the groinal cleft is the thinking man's target. A shattered pelvis = 100% combat ineffective and you can't tourniquet the arteries in there...
Juan Miller
Yep. For those who don't know, that's a brass bullet, and thus would by default be considered AP handgun ammo. Barnes has an exception for the (unmodified) bullet, under the sporting purposes clause: >a projectile which the Attorney General finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes
So Elite Ammo was buying these "sporting purpose" Barnes bullets, chucking them up in a lathe, and modifying them with deeper grooves to enhance terminal effect. ATF decided that this modification meant the original finding no longer applied, and treated them the same as if Elite Ammo was making new bullets from brass stock.
>Doesn't understand the whole point of the second amendment
Sebastian Smith
if i'm not mistaken, the legal limit for explosive filler without being a dd is 1/4 oz or slightly over 7 grams. if you were to fill a bullet with 7 grams of ETN, it would contain the chemical energy of roughly 2.5 50 bmg rounds. just barely within the legal limit. this is ofcourse purely hypotheticaland and it would be dangerous to try such a thing in custom shotgun slugs
Angel Foster
Includes the pushing charge as well in that weight
Gabriel Brooks
>what is explosive ammunition
Bentley Rogers
A thing you don't use gunpowder to make.
Camden Howard
Nah
Chase Hill
Dagney dagger
Its vaporware for now, when it becomes real I'll buy hundreds of rounds of their 10mm ammo though. Its supposed to be able to pierce level 3 rifle plates.
Angel Davis
????? What’s the design here? Material? Weights?
Jaxson Foster
Fuck that, its the (((atf))) that's our enemy
Blake Parker
No hes not, watch the online movie "deadly effects" a guy takes real fucking NATO to the chest at point blank and doesnt even flinch.
Ian Gomez
Winmag m2ap wont beat level 4
Nathaniel Anderson
10mm wrecks standard pistol armor with solid copper loads yeah. But dagney dagger ammo / steel core 10mm could punch through level 3 rifle plates and truck engine blocks.
Charles Ross
Unknown material, known to penetrate level 3 armor with a 10mm pistol, it's a lightweight high velocity bullet, probably sub 100 grains in the 10mm loading.
