>The United States has proposed disclosing some of the top-secret details of its state-of-the-art F-35 stealth fighter jet to Japan to encourage joint development of an aircraft that will succeed the Air Self-Defense Force’s F-2 fighter,” the Japanese daily Yomiuri Shimbun reported on April 18. In detail, the U.S. has expressed its willingness to release the software installed in the F-35 to control parts including the aircraft’s engine and the missiles.
>According to the Yomiuri Shimbun, U.S. and Japanese officials have only seriously begun to discuss the Lockheed Martin proposal last month. Overall, the Japan Air Self Defense Force (JASDF) is seeking to replace its fleet of 90 F-2 multirole fighter aircraft, a Mitsubishi license-produced variant of Lockheed Martin’s F-16, by the 2030s with up to 100 new fifth-generation air superiority fighters.
>The U.S. defense contractor last year submitted to the Japanese government a design proposal for a twin-engined next-generation air superiority fighter jet that combines the F-22’s airframe with the F-35’s electronic suite.
Holy fuck. Its essentially a Block II F-22, AKA Super Raptors. The Chinese Just-20 is finished KEK
This is reported by a Japanese newspaper based on anonymous "Japanese government sources" so it's still unconfirmed.
Jackson Thompson
Neat. I hope the US considers buying some too.
Jack Allen
It will end up like the F-2: Defective and cancelled after a dozen or so, maybe even less.
Japan itself admits that financial strength to stem their military expansion is their biggest weakness. And it will take at least a decade before anywhere near ready, at which point any issues the J-20 might still have would be ironed out long ago.
Noah Allen
>American software
So coded by Indians and going to crash the plane with no survivors when the stall detector triggers a false positive from manoeuvring , if the hardware doesn’t suffocate the pilot first?
Dylan Rivera
gr8 b8 m8
Jaxson Richardson
Imagine taking two (2) of Pratt&Whitney’s F135 beastly engines and putting it in the F-22s airframe. Then giving it all the sensors the F-35 has. For sucks sake the F-22 can already carry 8 air to air missiles internally right now. Realistically what could even compete with that?
If it’s going to be built on the F-22 airframe then I don’t see why the US wouldn’t when they have a partner nation willing to help re start the production line and upgrade the fuck out of them too.
Parker Bell
Effectively cancelling the Shinshin as well as the domestic assembly of the F-35 in favor for yet another new plane is perhaps not the best choice for a cash strapped country.
I think having 2 F135s would be overkill. Pretty sure you’d need to beef up the frame to handle the thrust. The F-22 already has a TWR>1, so I’m not sure how useful it would be.
Ryder Walker
>F-22 2.0 project will take 20 years
>in the next 2-3 years, the WS-15 will be ready >the J-20 achieves full performance with two 190kn monster engines, as well as the 3rd generation of GaN AESA radars (current is 2nd gen) and enhanced multiband sensors
Doesnt alter the balance so much. At that time, China might already have 6th gen fighters in prototype stage.
Liam Johnson
How would it take a decade when all the research, experience, assembly lines and its tooling already exist? Sounds like Japan just wants a massively upgraded F-22. With the US moving on with their 6th gen program (Next Gen TACAIR) I dont think giving a trusted partner like Japan access to the Raptor is so unbelievable now.
Jose Rivera
The J-20 is a pretty impressive aircraft for a country with little previous experience in aerospace development, but come on.
Brandon Howard
>assembly lines and its tooling already exist? Is it really? Last time I heard is that even we have a very hard time reactivating it, even if there was political will to do so. Not to mention very expensive.
Aaron Morales
Mitsubishi already fucked the F-2,why do the japs insist on hiring them?
Adrian Adams
>F-22 2.0 project will take 20 years See >in the next 2-3 years the WS-15 will be ready China has been saying this since 2013. No one buys it, or of the absurdly stupid performance numbers they claim when they still have to buy Russian engines because theirs is so shit still.
OPs title was right, chinks are already freaking ITT
Lucas Williams
Which codes? The ones that cause asphyxiation or the one that forbids the plane from getting near thunderclouds because it cannot take lightning strikes?
Alexander White
>Not waiting until a new Emperor is crowned so that can name the Block-II the Mitsubishi F-0 and make the Chicomms shit their pants.
Leo Wilson
F135 engines are weak shit for going faster then mach 1.5
Bentley Turner
Oh shit, actually new emperor happens in October. FUCK BUYS WW3 is about to happen.
Nicholas Bell
>It will end up like the F-2: Defective and cancelled after a dozen or so, maybe even less. They had almost 100 F-2s.
Eli White
The tooling and assembly lines are in storage. >Last time I heard is that even we have a very hard time reactivating it, even if there was political will to do so. Not to mention very expensive. It would be expensive. The US has had no reason to restart the production lines because there is nothing that still to this day is a true match for the F-22. The USAF is already looking to the future its 6th gen fighters so there is no real point to revive it.
This all changes when a partner like japan is willing to help pay large sums of money for whats being described as a Block 2 F-22. Not only does the US and Lockheed get to make tons of cash, it also opens the door for them to get even better Raptors to act as a stop gap for when 6ths gens arrive instead of using F-15x for this roll.
user,last year GE engineers were arrested for selling turbine tech to China.The chinks may be exaggerating some numbers and the reliability probably will be RD-33 tier,but the WS-15 is coming soon.
>a-any day now!!! Yeah I’m sure they can take some stolen turbine data for commercial aircraft and whip up a top tier fighter engine when they still can’t even make a copy of a Russian engine that they have had in their physical possession for decades. Get a grip chang lol
Isaiah Perry
no they are not, now end yourself and i know what are you thinking and i have answer - intakes
Parker White
I see the PRC sponsored shills area already in full on SEETHING damage control at the thought of Japan shitting on their Joke-20 """stealth fighter"""
Gabriel Brooks
What's the point in investing hundreds of billions of dollars into designing a new super-fighter when you can put it into streamlining the production of older ones and have 100 F-15s in the sky for every one J-20?
Justin Watson
Yeah because maintaining, arming, storing and buying spare parts for all those hundreds and hundreds of F-15s when the world is moving toward 6th gen aircraft is so much cheaper and smarter right? Dont be a brainlet user, Quality > Quantity. always has and always will.
Cooper Garcia
>RENT FREE
Nathaniel Ortiz
> what's the point of using their money to prop up inefficient military-industrial complex when they can buy anything they want from the USA?
That's the question you should be asking user.
Hunter Hernandez
kek, we all share this feeling about this
Ayden Howard
Because morale is so low due to PC faggotry that despite offering massive bundles of cash, the Air Farce can't get enough pilots to sign up to keep the aircraft they have flying...?
Daniel Young
>with little previous experience in aerospace development you might want to read a book once in a while.
Nolan Butler
yeah because Nazi Germany won ww2 because of its better quality tanks am i right guys ?
Parker Rodriguez
>China has been saying this since 2013 Nobody even knew about the WS-15 until 2-3 year ago. Make sure your anus stays between your other set of cheeks, fag.
Parker Powell
>when they still can’t even make a copy of a Russian engine that they have had in their physical possession for decades. Why is your mouth between your buttcheeks?
Robert Kelly
Ah, you're familiar with the early F22, 35, and current 737 max issues as well!
Blake Wood
holy fuck this chink is absolutely boiling mad lel
>you might want to read a book once in a while. I wouldn't call chimping other nations aircraft designs and engines to account for a whole lot of experience. Name on domestically designed original aircraft china is building or currently using. Oh look, you cant.
>Nobody even knew about the WS-15 until 2-3 year ago wrong. china has been claiming that they have had the super duper sekret engine in the works for the Joke-20 forever now. >a-any day now it'll be ready! you'll be sorry you'll s-see! thats been on repeat for the last 6 years now at least.
>Why is your mouth between your buttcheeks Why does china continue to buy flankers from Russia? Why does Pakistan choose to use Russian built RD-93 engines in their chinese bought jf-17s instead of the crappy chinese copy of it, the WS-13? I could go on and on owning you, but I think reality does a much better job than I can.
Dominic Jones
Let me guess. You use Charmin Ultra Soft for your napkins.
Evan Hernandez
So stealthy it actually dives in deep water
Henry Howard
>I have no arguments so ill seethe instead Stay on topic to the thread. If Jow Forums is making you this irrationally angry, I suggest you take a time out and cool your head. It's not a good look chang. Very embarrassing!
youtu.be/fkJ-2hb4N4c Shit the single engine F-35 can already out turn and maneuver the J-20 with its 2 (two) Russian built engines and meme canards. Imagine what a F-22 would do with twin F135 power plants. It wouldn't even be fair lol
Lucas Lopez
Wrong. There's nothing about the engine that limits high-speed performance. Intake ramps and potentially the bypass would need to be redesigned, but that's trivial.
Landon Hill
you didn't even know what the J-20 looked like until 3 years ago kek who are the "chinese" that claim things? Pic related?
What kind of flight hours are Chinese pilots getting these days? I can't imagine it's much less than the US anymore.
Parker Edwards
>you didn't even know what the J-20 looked like until 3 years ago >L-look at my toy models... be a-afraid! This is some new advanced type of chinese COPE we got here boys.
No point in state of the art tanks if you have to tow your artillery by horse and have not nearly enough trucks for logistics.
Asher King
>Thread about Japanese Air Self Defense Force considering the purchase of a custom aircraft from an American contractor >Thread immediately devolves into Chinkposting God dammit guys
Eli Diaz
Yeah engines so great that Pakis deem the Russian RD-93 engines to be vastly superior over the garbage WS-13 lol
Brandon Cruz
read some RAND reports.
They have around 200 hours annually for the first line 4th gen fighters and their performance in multi-national Red Flag-esque excercises with Pakistan and Thailand, who are both western trained, is very decent according to the pilots that faced them.
Adrian Russell
Chinks are EXTREMELY insecure. This get much worse when it has to do with Japan. They just cant help lashing out in baby rage.
Christopher James
WS-13 doesnt even exist. It has been a still birth.
The WS-19 medium thrust engine for the J-31, on the other hand, has recently been revealed.
I did this in the past few threads too, so excuse me if I'm repeating myself, but it's just too good. If you're looking to get a good idea on the mindset of some of these Chinese shills, go to r/AsianMasculinity and r/AZNIdentity. I had hoped it was satire, but Jesus.
Brandon Lewis
>considering to purchase >OP immediately states that China being BTFO
heh, in the end, the Japanese will end up buying more F-35 and crashing them.
As of now, every single of their domestic attempts at aviation has been a failure.
Even a fucking passenger plane like the MRJ aka "delayed indefinitely".
Jacob Parker
lmao what is that picture even supposed to be??? Did you forget that garbage propaganda doesnt work on people with above double digit IQs living outside of china? The rest of your post is just as rubbish lol
Ayden Cox
One is doing a maneuverbility airshow demonstration, the other is doing a verification test before delivery to a combat regiment.
Nice airshow, tho. Nearly as good as China's 4th generation J-10B's high AoA demonstration for the last airshow.
Owen Rivera
It's always interesting to me that they have these issues, especially considering how generally advanced both their aerospace and heavy manufacturing sectors are. I mean, nearly everyone in the US buys Japanese cars for quality, and their space program just landed a sample-return spacecraft on an asteroid the other day. There's zero reasons for them to have trouble building aircraft, and yet, here we are.
Ian Fisher
An engine with serrated TVC nozzles. Something the Japanese will likely never have by themselves.
Unlike their navy, their aviation industries have been always very fragmented and poorly organized.
Daniel Roberts
Do you have any idea as to why that is? Japan has the economic and intellectual capital to produce a strong aviation industry. Presumably it would be profitable, especially in light of recent plans for military expansion.
Julian Perry
>go to r/AsianMasculinity and r/AZNIdentity One of the most pathetic displays I have ever seen. This is what happens when chinkoids believe all there domestic chinese propaganda and come to the west and get confronted with reality.
Oliver Price
Imagine getting BTFO by a single engine multiroll aircraft that’s G-Locked.
Top kek the J-20 is trash
Hudson Rogers
Looks like they just hung a cut up trashcan on the end of a WS-13. What a mess lol
Isaiah King
>muh chink wunderwaffen
Believe it when I see it.
Xavier Young
You aren’t getting a hundred anything’s for the price of an F-22. Certainly not a hundred F-15’s. It’ll be like three or maybe four at most. And one F-35 is more valuable than four F-15’s
Austin Hernandez
It’s bad. I don’t even think whites have any sort of genetic reason to be more successful than any other race, but most of these posts are insane. If that’s any way representative of the thought process of incoming Chinese leaders, I think the west will be safe for quite some time.
Charles Harris
>monster engines That don't work nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/problem-can-chinas-j-20-stealth-fighter-be-picked-radar-44417 >"The J-20 was supposed to be powered by a specially-built WS-15 engine, but the Chinese have been unable to mass-produce the W-15 due to severe quality control issues stemming from its single-crystal turbine blades. Intent on rushing out the initial batch of combat-ready J-20’s in 2017, the PLAAF was forced to resort to the inferior WS-10B engine as a temporary stopgap solution. Among other problems, the WS-10B’s thrust-to-weight ratio is insufficient to power the J-20 at supersonic speeds without the use afterburners, which compromises its stealth capabilities."
Jeremiah Williams
>nationalinterest >2017 next time you are going to tell me that CIA operation was untouchable in 2011? ;)
Which will be never. You're talking about a country that even Russia refuses to sell shit too because they'll just reverse engineer it and create terrible copies. They don't have the benefit of being in a constant state of war like the US and Russia, so they come up with this hilarious "monkey see monkey do" bullshit like their Humvee rip offs and all those weird QBZ rifles that they got conned into thinking would be the next big thing.
Ryan Sullivan
Too bad that issue was already covered by Boeing and was known by basically every western pilot.
Maybe it's because the state is involved.I will tell you of a similar case. > japan produces high quality tech components > jap gov decides japan should lead computer industry > creates fifth gen computer(joke writes itself) > invests over 400 million dollars > project is a failure > no even japs themselves use "fifth generation" machines > in the end,they gave the tech they made for free
Aaron Allen
>from 2019 and I bet you thought the CIA article was written in 2012.
Noah Watson
>there is nothing that will match the F 22 Kek. Is this the American equivalent of we don't need at Su 57s because it's the best fighter in the world?
Anthony Ross
Name 1 (one) 5th generation fighter that was better than the F-22 in the 1990's. Name 1 (one) 5th generation fighter that was better than the F-22 in the 2000's. Name 1 (one) 5th generation fighter that is better than the F-22 in the current year.
Ill wait as long as I have to for your response captain dipshit.
Sure,except this time it's true, and the F-22 is actually combat deployed in usable numbers. The US really doesn't need more air to air capabilities at the moment. It's always nice to have more, but given current American dominance of the sky, further development of air superiority platforms will be cut before other, more vital programs.
Dominic Richardson
None of the source you cited are remotely reputable.
Kayden Brown
Then why is the F-22 discontinued in favour of the F-35 program in spite of it being clearly 'inferior'?
Alexander Sanchez
>I don’t know what the fuck I’m talking about: The Post You’re literally retarded. Consider suicide.
Hudson James
The USAF needs new multirole aircraft much more so than air superiority platforms. The F-35 is a lot more flexible in that regard.
Which makes it better than the F-22 in the current year. Got it.
Logan Butler
>Then why is the F-22 discontinued in favour of the F-35 program in spite of it being clearly 'inferior'? First of all, the F-22 was never discontinued for the F-35. I have no idea how you came up with that. The F-22 and F-35 fill completely different rolls and are designed to work in tandem with each other. Second, There are a lot of things in the F-35 that just straight up are better than the F-22. Namely its sensor suite and avionics. The F-35 also enjoys a much more advanced and robust RAM material than the F-22 as well has a much brighter future for upgrades and growth.
Stop posting in these threads like youre hot shit when clearly your obviously clueless.
See Shit man I’m not even agreeing with the guy you originally responded to. I’m also not even a planefag. Your claim that they discontinued the F22 in favor of the F35 is false, and the F35 also fills a completely different role as a multi-role aircraft compared to an air superiority fighter. Just know what you’re talking about before you post next time.
Julian Ortiz
At the roles that the Air Force sees a need for improvement in, yes. The F-22 is still considered a better A2A platform, but the USAF doesn't feel the need to spend their limited budget on air superiority over more pressing concerns in other areas.
Isaac Smith
>US sells the recently developed F35 to numerous countries >US to this day refuses to sell the F22 which was developed over 10 years ago to any other country
Can Jow Forums redpill me on the F22? Exactly how good is it?
the F-22 is a racecar, the F35 is a pickup truck. sometimes only the race car can do the job, but 99% of the time the truck is the better choice.
Isaac Ward
>Can Jow Forums redpill me on the F22? Exactly how good is it? best pure air superiority fighter to date. >US to this day refuses to sell the F-22 The US is trying to sell some type of upgraded F-22 to Japan which is the whole point of this thread. >which was developed over 10 years ago to any other country user the F-22 first flew in 1990's, its getting close to 30 years old now.
Nolan Richardson
this the story was only reported by Yomiuri Shimbun, no follow-ups, and it's not in line with the policy announced in the mid-term defense plan they issued recently, so we gotta take this with a grain of salt.
it's HIGHLY unlikely the F-22 will be the base airframe for the F-3. one of the reasons is structure. japan's been working on development of an advanced fastner-less composite frame for F-3 which they've already completed years of fatigue tests on full-scale models like this article says: aviationweek.com/defense/glue-japan-uses-composite-fighter-substructure this technology can't be utilized for an F-22 based F-3, because the F-22 has the conventional metal structure, and there is no way japan ditches the innovative structure that contributes to reduction of both weight and observability. the F-2 was the first fighter made with this kind of tech and japan's gonna go further with the F-3. >To make the larger wings lighter the skin, spars, ribs and cap of the wings were made from graphite-epoxy composite and co-cured in an autoclave. This was the first application of co-cured technology to a production tactical fighter.[13] This technology for the wings encountered some teething problems, but proved to be a leading-edge use of a technology that provides weight savings, improved range, and some stealth benefits. This technology was then transferred back to America, as part of the program’s industrial partnership.[21]
to make an F-22 variant with this structure, re-engineering of an entire airframe is needed, which requires A LOT of costs, negating the point of adopting an already existing airframe to reduce costs. furthermore japan gotta pay the costs plus fancy license fees to lockmart (tens of millions of $$ per unit). so clearly it wouldn't pay off, compared to its own new design from scratch.
except it's not? developments of domestic aircraft, be it C-2 transport, P-1 MPA, or even F-2, have been successful and those are working great. the delay in the delivery of MRJ wasn't from technical issues but certification in the US.
Isaac Butler
>sharing what may be the shittiest part of the entire platform
Oliver Harris
>US will give Japan the next generation F-22 Super Raptor before it makes any itself I will never believe this to be true
Zachary Baker
Considering that they have to make the F-22 airframes from scratch anyway they might as well take the time and effort to make the airframe better.
Asher Jenkins
Why? Super Raptor would be 5.5G; we're moving straight to 6.
Hudson Brown
At that point it’ll pretty much be an entirely new aircraft, like the F-2 is to the F-16.
God, imagine a slightly scaled up F-22, fucking erotic.
