What did Stoner mean by this?

user, i'm sorry to inform you but outside of the AR realm charging handles tend to be fixed.

Well sure, but why are you talking about "outside the AR realm"? this thread is about ARs. the pic posted above is also an AR. "Outside the AR" isn't relevant to this discussion.

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That's a pull-style charging handle on an AR-10, user. It works just like that on an AR15, except that the hook to pull it is vertical rather than horizontal. you can't push the bolt with that.

And all this can be done by changing handle. Kalashnikov won again.

Good idea, but the carrier gets mad hot in DI guns, so mid firefight you better have asbestos gloves.

Using a reciprocating charging handle as a forward assist comes with all the problems that a forward assist does. Mechanically they're doing the exact same thing.

But a reciprocating charging handle doesn't require any additional parts like a forward assist does

Stupid Commie Guinea deserves a free helicopter ride. A DD is not enough.

And? The forward assist is such a simple design that it is impossible to break. It requires no maintenance and the parts within never see the light of day once the rifle is assembled. Moreover a reciprocating charging handle has the potential to injure the shooter or get caught on the environment.

There's no clear winners here. Only tradeoffs.

Under normal operating conditions you're perfectly correct but every extra part is a potential point of failure, theoretically. I don't disagree with you though, it's functionally just a matter of taste

If your bolt wont fully go into battery, you can tap the foreward assist, or if the bolt isnt hot, you can use your finger to help push the bolt back physically, using the indent made in the BCG.
/thread
ksg urself

It's also somewhat useful for silently chambering a round, and also when doing a press check to make sure the bolt is seated. There is also a procedure for making sure the barrel drains after being submerged where you pull the bolt back enough to vent the barrel and you use the FA to re-seat the bolt. I agree though it's terrible for clearing malfunctions

Go fuck yourself, retard. We've been over this dead horse.
No.

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A forward assist is a necessity on a rifle with a non reciprocating charging handle

>but every extra part is a potential point of failure, theoretically.
This is not science. This is engineering. There is no room for theory here. A part is not a point of failure simply because it exists.

Forward assists are unnecessary. Better to do a malfunction drill than force a bolt into battery.

So, which one is it?

If you need to push into battery your rifle is probably fucked anyway. It boils down to:

>Repair the rifle in the field but have no firepower or means of defense for the time being
So no forward assist

or

>reduce the rifle to single shot, using the charging handle to eject the spend cartridge and the forward assist to seat the new cartridge, resulting in a massive decrease in firepower but never reducing it to zero
Then a forward assist

It boils down to personal ideology but keep in mind you can still service a malfunctioning rifle with a forward assist, but cannot force a non-charging handle rifle to seat if you absolutely have too.

youtube.com/watch?v=N60tjBa6OCc

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I dislike it just because it makes the gun uglier.

Every goddamned time we have this cocksucking thread it's the exact same replies and the exact same fuddlore. Get a better (you) topic you lazy nigger.

>Repair the rifle in the field...
>So no forward assist

How exactly do you imagine conducting this field repair when the bolt carrier is stuck back? Can't separate the receivers unless you assist it forward.

In what way can it make malfunctions worse?

wonder who was the commie enabler who took the picture?

They're going to say
>DEBRIS IN DA CHAMBER GET MOOSHED MAR
because they just parrot shit they hear online instead of actually doing critical thinking.

These eunuchs are such retards. They talk shit about the forward assist yet can often be found getting their rifles to go into battery during their shit mud tests by ramming the bolt home manually with whatever firearm they're using.

Stoner didn't make this mistake.
Why it's still a thing though?

Thats what happens when you get edgy arrogant faggots who know nothing besides casual 2 gun matches talking about combat firearms.

>If you need to push into battery your rifle is probably fucked anyway.

Everyone who has some kind of weird obsession with hating the forward assist is clearly not anyone who's ever had to handle an AR in any kind of military service. Light dust and small debris can impede the bolt from fully going into battery, and hitting the forward assist to dislodge or crush said debris almost never "makes the problem worse", because once you start firing, all that shit comes flying out regardless. Why do you insist on arguing about something you've never experienced or have any knowledge over?

>14 year old girl notebook handwriting

The fact that I never see anyone pointing this out during the mud tests is pretty astonishing. They do it literally every time the rifle starts malfunctioning, yet would gladly not even have that function on an AR because for whatever reason they've decided to be extremely opinionated over a pretty benign yet useful component of one of the most widely used service rifles in history.

>It's a mechanical point of failure and a liability
The forward assist is an eyesore, but to call it a liability is retarded. I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Forward assists look cool

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Did anything happen to this kid for posting this pic?

He got a bad Yelp review then went on to the 10th Mountain division iirc. He's no longer in the Army, he does shitty Antifa podcasts the last time I checked.

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So he went to officer school or w.e. that is for nothing

If I'm not mistaken, a Dishonorable Discharge. He was reportedly a dick to superiors, too. Makes you wonder how the fuck he ends up at West Point.

He got booted from the military, blacklisted, and was essentially disowned by his father. The kid's fucked but is too retarded to realize it.

That will surely make him see the error of his ways, rather than slipping further down the (((Marxist))) rabbit hole

Pull bolt all the way back, clear out shit with stick and water.

If you read up on him he was always a confrontational shitheel that was hated by everyone because of the unwarranted ego he developed because daddy was Treasurer. He was destined for one caustic group or another.

It's to make up for his faggy gun not having a bolt handle

Literally a thread about ARs

>karl "shit eating grin" kucksarka talking about "running" a gun

Was there ever a more cancerous post

Ah another case of the Jow Forums existential breakdown. It will get better when you stop caring. Trust me

Where did he get the mini CIB?

He was an enlisted 11B before his appointment to West Point IIRC.

Stoner didn't design it.

>point of failure
In what realistic capacity?

>and a liability that could cost the lives of soldiers down range
How? Does it split atoms when you use it?
It literally is a plunger to press the bolt into battery if for whatever (many possible reasons), it didn't fully go into battery.
If someone had a double-feed or failure to extract/eject, and they hit the forward assist thinking this would fix it, then that's operator error, and they're a fucking retard.

Anything that Karl Kasarda says about firearms mechanics and operation should always be second guessed and questioned, this is a man who claimed the most efficient way to use a DA/SA pistol was to decock and rely on the double-action after each target engaged.
His understanding of the forward assist is completely retarded, he genuinely believes the forward assist holding the bolt in place when firing could make the rifle explode.

It's bad enough to see him rope Ian into this dumb shit.

>"Soon, we will figure out how to flap our arms harder and faster, and then, we WILL fly, and we WILL win!"
I'm glad he got dishonorably discharged, what a fucking fag.

>Stoner didn't want it. The military wanted it.
Correct, he had a different idea for one, and didn't like the one the army went with.

>Generally the FA will make shit worse.
Can you explain why?

>The FA can help give it a lil' nudge. That's about all it's good for.
That's what it's for, it's literally not for anything else. Yet it makes things worse somehow, can you make a decision?

Stoner's proposal was to have a button on the charging handle to let you push on the bolt.

There's lots of guns with non-reciprocating charging handle that aren't ARs, you mongoloid.

Tapping the charging handle into place on an AK is not a problem.

It doesn't, but so what?

>but every extra part is a potential point of failure
How? What can fail in the FA itself to be a problem? The teeth on the plunger, the serrations on the bolt itself? That'd be a problem in that'd mean the assist couldn't interact with the bolt, but it doesn't impede the rifle firing and cycling.

>but cannot force a non-charging handle rifle to seat if you absolutely have too
Thank you.

Neither is tapping the forward assist. What's your point?

Yes, thank you too.

>The kid's fucked but is too retarded to realize it.
The fate of many a communists.

It's called a 'forward assist' not a 'de-jammer' OP.

Are YOU a Communist?

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That's hot

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jesus christ i hope there wasn't anybody downrange

I still have that pen.

Your bolt holds itself open at that position if you don't let it slam forward?
Must be ROUGH

Sometimes, on some ARs, you can kind of ride the bolt and it can stop short of going into battery.
In fact, you can see that on quite a lot of guns, which is why you never ride the bolt or slide home on an automatic, pull and release, or hit the button to let it go.

>point of failure
no
>Stoner a communist?
no, kys

Oh yeah.
I use it as a test of how smooth the mechanism is. My 1911 will feed no matter how you ride the bolt, even with a full mag. I got that shit smooth.

>Thinking Stoner made that useless shit

GET THE FUCK OFF MY BOARD

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Exactly

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Tru, tru, some guns are more prone than others, grit contributes to it for sure, so many cheaper guns are more likely to exhibit that.
Still, letting the springs do their job when closing the action I think is just good handling.

Forward assist is unnecessary. Stoner didn't want it, so it's not intended to be there. The gun was not DESIGNED to have one and performs worse with it. It was perfect from the start and the army fucked it up.

Eugene Stoner didn't even strictly make the AR15, he made the AR10, and then his pals Jim Sullivan and Bob Fremont would improve it and scale it down to .223 (after some experimenting with .222).
I'm pretty sure Stoner was doing something else at that time.

Well, of course. Nobody dares question "le Gun Jesus" and his pet satanic wehraboo's dumbfuck hot takes. I remember in one example, they shit all over 3-point slings, and then proceeded to shit on the people in the comments who said "Hey, I actually used one of these things while deployed and found it really useful"--their arrogance is astonishing (their comments are since deleted, by the way). Thank fuck they relegate that drivel to an entirely separate channel so I can watch FW without getting that shit in my subscription feed (although, regrettably, Ian's "opinions presented as fact" do slip into FW videos from time to time).

>Forward assist is unnecessary.
Wrong.

>Stoner didn't want it, so it's not intended to be there.
Sort of. He opposed the design they went with, but he had an idea for a different way for forcing the bolt into battery.

>The gun was not DESIGNED to have one
Lots of guns weren't initially designed for a feature and were then modified. The 1911 saw lots of changes from when Colt bought the original patent and they had their first commercial model, which would then be changed further in the 1920s for the 1911A1.
The 1911 wasn't designed with a wider ejection port, but there it fucking is and it improves reliability.

>and performs worse with it.
No it doesn't. The thing literally sits there and does nothing by itself, unless you use it, it will not affect the rifle, and if you're not a retard, you will not use it outside of it's single context, and it won't cause you trouble.

>It was perfect from the start and the army fucked it up.
Uh, no. It was pretty good from the start, the Army fucked it up in a bunch of creative ways, and then ultimately got around to making a model with a lot of important fixes for their fuckups, which would be the M16A1, with its forward assist, which was a quite good rifle at the time.

Attached: M16A1, Vietnam Issued.jpg (737x1062, 486K)

>Hurr let's bolt on this unnecessary tumor that wasn't meant to be on the gun in the first place.

You don't just improve guns with your fancy bits and bobs. It was done, and shouldn't have been messed with.

>Thank fuck they relegate that drivel to an entirely separate channel so I can watch FW without getting that shit in my subscription feed (although, regrettably, Ian's "opinions presented as fact" do slip into FW videos from time to time).
I kinda feel you. Ian is a lot more professional in his content than Karl IMO, but I do find myself disagreeing with some of his assessments.

The only thing I like about Karl is when he talks about old west shit.

Yeah, look at that stupid tumor underneath the barrel, what were those retards thinking?

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What do you think the forward assist does?

Nothing useful. If your gun isn't going into battery you shouldn't force it. It's not a toy you can throw a temper tantrum, it's a tool for real men.

>If your gun isn't going into battery you shouldn't force it
Why? What do you think happens?

It's not a toy, you shouldn't force it. Have some damn respect, boy.

It's a fucking firearm, it's designed to contain a violent conflagration inside of it, the resulting high gas pressure forcing a metal projectile through a narrow path which engraves it in the process (increasing pressure), with residual pressure being used to make it reset and repeat this process at high speed.
It's steel and aluminum.

Again, what do you think will happen?

>haha bro, just load out of spec and/or damaged ammo into this chamber that may be obstructed lol
>who gives a shit about pressure spikes and shit lmao it's DESIGNED to contain it
>now excuse me while I- KABOOM

Do you think the only situation where the bolt fails to go into battery is when there's like a fucking rock lodged in the bore or something?
There's a lot of reasons it could be a just a hair way from going into battery, very few would be likely to obstruct the bore or otherwise cause some kind of dangerous overpressure situation.

boomers are so fucking dumb holy shit

I think they should drop him into Venezuela with a weapon and fake plans to start a counter revolution.
They’d probably give him a show trial then execute him for being a capitalist American!
The cosmic scales of justice will be balanced!

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>The AR platform is so shitty it won’t last 10 years!
50 years later
>the AR platform is so shitty it won’t last 10 more years!

>le Gun Jesus
I like Ian and all that, but the Gun Jesus circlejerk is the gayest shit ever.

Yeah. Great channel, I like the guy, but I fucking *hate* the Gun Jesus meme.
It was kind of cringe to begin with, and it's REALLY been beaten down.

Hopefully he'll come up with some different fun Halloween costume some day so I can stop seeing it.

>hitting the forward assist to dislodge or crush said debris almost never "makes the problem worse"

Then what happened here? youtube.com/watch?v=Oh1lyMyejpI