Why isn't stainless steel the default material for firearms/barrels?

Stainless is painless but blue is true. Blued revolvers have a certain classic aesthetic that harken back to the old days when firearms were made to last, and there was some expectation of investment from the owner as far as maintenance and appearance care go... Stainless is meant to be abused and put away dirty and / or nasty because it maintains its aesthetic without rigorous maintenance. I like blued better because to me, it represents a classical era, a time where people actually fucking gave a shit...

It represents an era before they invented stainless steel alloys or before said stainless steel alloys became anywhere near economical.

Thank u user

Quality post

Nice try user above him but you’re just being silly. Both are good.

I didn't say that stainless was bad necessarily... It's just lazy.

416 and 17-4PH are very different types of stainless, it's not as simple as cost and machinability.

416 is a martensitic free-machining steel, this means that while it can get relatively strong and hard, it can also be machined relatively easily due to intentional sulphur inclusions. These sulphur inclusions form discontinuities which break up the chips while machining so that they aren't dragged over the surface or caught in the machine, it also decreases cutting forces and acts as a lubricant which reduces the built up edge.
These sulfur inclusions also reduce the fatigue properties, impact properties, and ductility because they act as stress risers which start the cracks which eventually lead to failure.
The sulfur also acts as a lubricant in extreme pressure conditions which might normally cause galling, which is the cold welding that happens when you remove the oxide layer separating two similar materials. This galling resistance helps avoid catastrophic failure in unexpected high loading conditions, but generally doesn't mean much if it's operating within design loads.
Another thing this sulfur does is really fuck up the corrosion resistance if you don't know what you're doing. This is because the sulfides which make it so nice to machine make it impossible to form a proper continuous oxide layer on its own. These need to be removed from the surface before the parts go out to the customer or you'll have massive rust problems as if it were a normal steel. This process is called passivation, and it involves a very careful cleaning process followed by a soak in a mild acid in order to grow the oxide layer. This is also used in some non-free-machining stainless steels which have to be extra corrosion resistant because the machining process can leave free iron/steel particles on the surface which also fuck up the oxide layer.

Passivation:
besttechnologyinc.com/passivation-systems/what-is-passivation/
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The other major difference is the hardening mechanism. 416 is a martensitic stainless steel while 17-4 PH is a Precipitation Hardening stainless steel. I could go on for another post about these but basically the difference is that martensitic steels are heated up to a high temperature and quenched rapidly, which can cause a scale buildup if not done in a vacuum and generally causes part warpage. Precipitation hardening is done at much lower temperatures, 900F for 17-4 and the part is held there for a few hours before being slowly cooled, there's some discoloration but no scale buildup and no warpage. PH parts are generally easier to machine in the hardened condition while martensitic parts are generally easier to rough machine in the unhardened condition and generally finished in the hardened condition.
The structural differences also mean that their wear behavior is very different even for a given hardness. 17-4 sucks in the self-mated condition, it will wear quickly and gall easily, making it a bad choice for self-mated wear surfaces like those found in revolvers. Standard 304 is actually more wear resistant than 17-4 but it's not nearly as strong. Martensitic steels are generally very good, and martensitic stainless steels are even more resistant as long as they don't gall. Free-machining steels suck though because of the inclusions I mentioned before. 17-4 is excellent when mated with the proper material though, when mated with a much harder or softer material it performs much better than the competition.
Also, because of its hardening mechanism, 17-4 PH can survive at high temperatures without losing its properties much longer than martensitic stainless steels.

Sources for wear data:
hpalloy.com/alloys/brochures/Nitronic60book.pdf

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For something like a barrel, I'd much rather have 17-4 with its high temperature properties, better wear resistance (in this case), higher strength, higher fatigue strength, and better corrosion resistance.
For a revolver though, I'd choose 416 if there were no other option, although I'd much rather have something like 410 (basically 416 without the sulphur) for the self-mated wear and galling resistance.

Also I'd like to point out that machining 17-4 is pretty much the same as machining 4140, and 416 is way easier than either of them (unless you're doing casting or forging, which are very different processes). Material cost for a revolver might be $10, the manufacturing cost is the only thing that really matters unless you're doing powder metallurgy.

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Based machinist poster.
Also, fuck machining any type of staino. 4140 is fun af once you get the chip right.

>It's just lazy.

This is why no one makes high quality blued revolvers anymore. I have a 70yr old M&P that has a better looking/more durable blued finish than a modern S&W. Cost cutting and loss of skill in the industry is why most modern revolvers look like shit.

Agreed.
I'm sure environmental regulations aren't helping things either; many of the chemicals used in bluing are a headache to deal with.

Stainless heats inconsistently, so a gun that's been rapid fired gets weird cracking around the crown of the barrel. Not so much an issue with precision rifles or bolt actions that get time to cool, not good for ARs.

>Stainless heats inconsistently,
That's nonsense.

It is true that stainless steel tends to have lower thermal conductivity than other steels, but to assert that it "heats inconsistently" is nonsense.

>and loss of skill in the industry
this. and the problem is *everywhere* and is only going to get worse.

how many people know how to cook these days? Hardly anyone, we just order in with our phone toys. how many people know how to work with tools? virtually nobody. how many people know how to work a playstation or Xbox? virtually everybody.

I was chatting with a family friend who is a criminal investigator about gun safes the other day. The conversation turned to torch attacks. My friend said they used to see that years ago, but hardly ever nowadays. Why? With the loss of skilled trades, few people even know how to use a cutting torch anymore.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for many modern conveniences, but the loss of skills across all fields is shocking.

Because blued steel can look awesome.
Damn I wish they made more blued revolvers these days.
The ultra-tacticool explanation is probably that stainless gives off more glare.

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I already know he difference but the machbinabilty of 17-4 isn’t that bad. It’s twice less than of 416 but 416 isn’t particularly difficult.
I see no reason for why we don’t have barrels from 17-4 or slides or frames(btw wolf has a g21/20 slide made from 17-4 too bad no one makes a stainless Glock frame).
Gun manufacturers are just greedy kikes.

Yep.
Just look at the products on the market these days, doesn’t matter what product it is the quality has decreased and the cost has gone up.
In 1905 you could get a Luger, a hand fitted complicated gun in an era where semi automatics were just coming into being, it was 600 in today’s dollars. What do you get today for 600? Some shity plastic easy to manufacturer Glock with a finish that doesn’t even last anymore.

>Just look at the products on the market these days, doesn’t matter what product it is the quality has decreased and the cost has gone up.
I wouldn't say "everything". We've made massive improvements in medicine, and in many kinds of electronics--mainly those associated with video. Computers of course. Engine technology has gotten a lot better too. But for 99% of the shit out there? It's become cheap convenience-oriented garbage.

because blue and black can be pretty too. IMO a good blue or black is better than stainless

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Stainless steel at negative temperatures becomes brittle. And because of this brittleness could fail under the pressure generated when shooting,
One reason why mititary won’t use stainless steel guns

Would stellite work for a barrel? Also, why don’t we see stellite lined barrels as the standard like with hard chrome? Already used in heavy machine guns and m249 and m240s

This is stupid, most gun steels that dont say they are stainless are stainless steel. It just isnt in the name. Like for AR's 416r "stainless" is less stainless than 4150cmvo. the C in cmvo is for chrome which is what makes steel stainless. Unless you are actually looking at the composition of the steel you have no idea how stainless something is, just by the name.

Stainless is softer but thanks for playing

Are you retarded? 4150 isn’t stainless. Shit has like 2 percent chrome, that isn’t stainless. 416 isn’t even properstainles since it lacks nickel.

High carbon ages better. It rusts more, but maintains its shape better due to its hardness

I see you cant actually read, where did i say 4150 was stainless, all I said was that it is more stainless than 416r which it is, and you dont contradict, my post.

Minimum chrome for stainless is prob around 10% I dont know any gun barrel steels that high they may exist.

Again my point is, the name of the steel alone doesn't tell you shit about its actual strengths and weaknesses, you have to do that research yourself.

lol what? 416 is 14 percent chrome. How is 4150 more stainless?

Blued Steel > Everything else