Say something nice about US new SMG

They should just make new greasers just give them better sights.

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stampedshit plz go
we ain't got time to keep replacing fiddly little rollers

stamped guns are kind of a lost art in the US.

They take AR triggers, which is nice.

Most kinds of heavy industry are a lost art in the US these days, sadly.

I remember reading an article about a huge stamping press (the "Mesta 50") the us built after WWII to build parts for aircraft, space program, military, etc. After many years in service one of the parts cracked and the press had to be rebuilt. There was no longer any foundry in the USA capable of making that part anymore, so they had to have it made overseas. All the big makers of heavy industrial machine tools--Mesta, Kearney & Trecker, Cincinnati, etc, are long dead.

Wrong version.

What, with the entire magazine? What'd that be fucking good for?

Not even, it's for MPs.

Not small enough. They wanted a very compact automatic weapon with comparable manual of arms to an AR.

Attached: apc9k.jpg (1035x1000, 47K)

There's a bigger focus on precision milling and turning, using castings and extrusions.
Lots of fancy polymers too.

>have gun rights mostly stripped from you
>fall victim to neoliberal anti-armament rhetoric
>this goes on for decades on end
>can't design a nice gun anymore
gee I wonder why

That looks like a fucking ugly ump 45. Why not just get a ump 45?

Because the UMP is a flimsy piece of shit and not nearly as compact in size.

>There's a bigger focus on precision milling and turning
Small stuff, sure. The big stuff? No. That's all overseas, as my example illustrated.

> using castings and extrusions
Once again, see my example above. The US needed a big cast part to fix the Mesta 50. There no longer existed even ONE foundry in the US who could make that part.

As for extrusions, yes, we do a lot of that, but Korea, Japan, and China all have more capable extrusion presses than we do now.

Polymers and composites? Absolutely we do a lot of that. Doesn't change the fact we've lost a lot of our prior capacity in other fields. Shipbuilding is a huge one.

You probably shouldn't speak authoritatively about a subject you don't know much about, get out more.

Here's another example. This is an upset forging machine which the US built in the 1930's and sent to Russia for lend-lease during WWII.

The russians had been using it since, and they were going to scrap it. Instead, a US company bought it and paid an unbelievable fuckton of money to have it taken apart and shipped back to the US to be refurbished. Why did they do this? Because we no longer have the capability to make another one.

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Here's the base casting being transported through the streets of Ohio for refurb.

this is the key part that's too big for us to make anymore.

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Please be more specific about which part you think I'm wrong about.

I've owned a machine shop for 30 years, and I make parts for the injection molding industry. I know this field better than most, I think.

Offloading from the trailer.

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Here's what it looked like in the factory in Russia.
Notice that the lower half of the machine isn't visible. That's because it's set in several feet of concrete, which had to be chipped away before it could be removed.

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>The US needed a big cast part to fix the Mesta 50. There no longer existed even ONE foundry in the US who could make that part.

there's a great documentary on that here:
youtube.com/watch?v=hpgK51w6uhk

was that the one you're talking about?
kinda sad how the US was behind during WWII, got ahead afterward, but now is behind once again.

It's another episode of stampfags derail and ruin a good thread.

I still don't understand where exactly you are supposed to hold this thing. The only thing I can figure is that you're supposed to use the magazine as a vertical grip, but I thought the Army usually discouraged that kind of grip.

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The US was using outdated mills when steel finally collapsed. Combine that with cheap imported steel and a general downturn in the economy and poof.

>>if someone calls me out I'm not allowed to prove him wrong

I hold my support hand right at the corner of the magwell and the fore-end, right behind the finger stop. Holding onto the mag itself is a bit awkward to me. I have no clue what the official solution is supposed to be.

kys boomer

You first, nogunz.

A fore end grip seems like it should come standard.

Angled grip looks pretty good too.
youtu.be/CzSXlaiQSQ8

Yeah, you'd think for the price they'd throw one in for sure.

Good job not being a Kel-Tec

>hurr it looks like completely different gun
>why didn't they just pay the same price for completely different gun because they look similar

Go suck start a UMP-45

I figure the magwell and the area in front of it, kinda.

As for magwell gripping being discouraged, I would say that applies for the rifles and carbines, where that gives you substandard support for aiming and recoil control. For a short gun like that, there's not all that much further point of contact past the magazine, and this kind of gun is intended for real short ranges.
I figure a VFG of some sort might fit, even if the space would be narrow.

I think unless you have a VGF/AFG, your way of gripping is correct.

So what was wrong with the MP7?

you bought two medicore plastic pieces of shit instead of one good gun. good job

>$7200

It looks like a MAC10/11 stitched to a MP5 lower and made tacticool. It's so ugly.

Only good vs. armor.

>thinking the govt is paying this much per unit

It looks like it would be in some D-list video game. I kinda like it. I don't have any B&T guns yet.

>proprietary ammo
>bullets too small
>have to magdump to kill one person
>hk had to have germany veto the 5.7 cartridge because it was doing better

Should’ve gone with the Noveske Space Invader if they just wanted an AR-9.

It is exactly what they are paying all in.

Its probably pretty reliable i guess?

I dont see what advantage it has over a half dozen other 9mm smgs that dont cost 4 digits. My vote would have been for the Stribog.

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They are, but it is essentially a service contract, that includes the rifle and service for the life of the rifle.

Jesus Christ what an ugly oversized blocky piece of shit. Why does it have to be so tall? Why is the magwell not relatively flush with the mag? Why all that extra plastic up front for spare fagticool rails? If the goal is compactness why not make it a bullpup and get the advantage of a longer barrel in the same sized package? If you do keep the guts infront of the trigger why waste plastic on rails and shit for an addon foregrip when you could just extend the plastic of the mag well and add some serrations or a bit of rubber and turn it into a grip on it's own?

It's not very tall. It might look tall to you because it's so short.
I couldn't tell you about the magwell, why would it matter anyway?
The rails are removable. Of course they'd be on a stock photo, if you don't want them just take 'em off.
>>bullpup
shit trigger, awkward to see into the chamber to verify clear.

> If you do keep the guts infront of the trigger why waste plastic on rails and shit for an addon foregrip when you could just extend the plastic of the mag well and add some serrations or a bit of rubber and turn it into a grip on it's own?
The rail design is flexible, it can be outfitted many different ways. What you are proposing is not.

That's an APC9, not the version that army adopted. The army adopted the APC9K. That angled grip wouldn't fit on the APC9K.

>I dont see what advantage it has over a half dozen other 9mm smgs that dont cost 4 digits
Tbh it doesn't cost 4 digits, it's just that anything the government does ends up costing at least 10x what it should.

>Magwell
It looks awkward and ugly from an aesthetic standpoint but that's secondary, it uses up more material than it needs to for getting the job done, if you're going to waste material making the magwell bigger then you could extend it down instead of making it wide and actually use it as a handgrip instead of needing to attach one to the gun.
>Rails
I mean you could shorten the rails and that ventilated plastic shroud and not lose any functionality, you can still put peripherals on shorter rails.
>Shit trigger on bullpups.
I've not fingerfucked an overwhelming number of bullpups, is this an inherent design flaw or do you mean the placement of the trigger and bullpup mag makes getting your hand in awkward?

Also I wonder why it couldn't feed through the grip like an MP7 which again would let you move the internals further back in the gun and shorten it. I fully grant there could be an engineering reason for it, I'd want to see the thing broken open before definitively saying it would just be better if you feed it like a common handgun.

Ah yes, you’re the kind of person that thinks I should sell my ar-15’s and buy a ‘real gun’ instead. I assume you’ve shot and had nothing but failure with kriss and cz as well? :^)

yeah apparently this is B&T's only 9mm smg that isn't a shitty blowback action

they should have picked the sig MPX as a pdw and dropped the MCX in favor of the LMT CSW in mlok as a special forces blaster

>not using push-pull sticks to move a suspended load
My HSE violations senses are pinging like crazy

The trigger is an inherent design problem with bullpups. I mean the trigger pull feels bad because there has to be a mechanism that travels back from the trigger to the action far behind it. The difficulty in checking your chamber to make sure the weapon is clear is also a problem. You have to remove the mag, turn the gun upside down while retracting the bolt and then look inside the magwell.

B&T does make several similar guns with a mag-in-grip config, both in semi and in select fire. I don't know why the army opted for this instead.

I was thinking ropes, but yeah, there's no fucking way I'd be anywhere near that. Even if you didn't get crushed under it, that thing is so fucking heavy that if it fell you'd have a real risk of deadly splinters from the wood cribbing under it.

Ropes would be better than hands but generally you want to use a push/pull rod because if the rope raps around your limb when the load goes tumbling then you are going with it. Using your hands is a bad habit to be sure, ok everything goes fine with this job but what happens the next time when you are moving a 2500 lb down hole tool and the fasteners snap while you hand is between the tool and the truck bed? Use fucking tools when moving tools, there's enough videos from China to convince even the most stubborn, set in their ways workmen of the value of basic HSE/PPE.

because you are poor

Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm sick of blocky guns that keep getting cranked out. You can see it in the design, not just aesthetics.

Why doesn't shit like pic related get manufactured anymore? Still better than some modern equivalents and doesn't look like it belongs in Minecraft like an

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Killyourself you stupid Low IQ wannabe Nigger.

Mekanika did it better with the uru

I don't understand the logic for making the full-auto switch so hard to reach. I get that you don't want to accidentally engage it, but isn't it also important for the full-auto function to be easily accessible just in case you do need it?

You just KNOW that some fuckhead boots are going to shred their hands when they slip shooting full auto on the range during basic

MAC found it best to press his thumb against the charging handle.

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>Scorpion
>bad

One good thing I can say about the scorpion is it's rock solid reliable. It will eat anything also

>the only good thing I can say about a gun is the most important part about it

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>not small enough
What about the MP5K?

>1943+76
>US Army adopts a weaker M3 Grease Gun with rails for $3k apiece
Your tax dollars at work.

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MP 40 was the last art deco gun

m-muh swiss clockwork engineering
f-fucking poorfags!
>$3000 straight fucking blowback

US military sucks when it comes to dumb decisions like this new gun line up.

There's mp9s, mpxs, pdw-rs, AR pistols, etc.,
But why this ugly shit

>I thought the Army usually discouraged that kind of grip

on guns that are much longer and heavier

Seriously they chose a direct blowback gun, if anything it's a downgrade from an MP5 variant.

An M3 grease gun in 9mm with a set of fucking rails would accomplish the exact same thing, and probably cost $600 per unit (with maintenance plan)

Attached: fa_smg_grease_o1.jpg (800x361, 36K)

It is thrown in

Not a gun that can fire suppressed subsonic 9mm.

>complains about price
>he doesnt know what the price includes

Intelligence below average indeed.

I am well aware that whatever price the government pays for these shiny new toys includes some kind of warranty and replacement parts. The issue is that this gun does nothing better than a stamped sheet metal POS that was mass produced 70 years ago. These are going to people like MPs and bodyguards for generals. They will probably never be shot outside of the firing range for shits and gigs.

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>. The issue is that this gun does nothing better than a stamped sheet metal POS that was mass produced 70 years ago
Name a company that is still making and supporting "stamped sheet metal POS" that meets the requirements set for by the program.

That smile

How many M3s are sitting in US armories now collecting dust? And yes, I'm well aware that the B&T has rails per the arbitrary requirements. Keep in mind that this is the same branch that made a "modular handgun" a requirement, but disallows their own servicemen to customize their handguns because they think so little of their intelligence.

>How many M3s are sitting in US armories now collecting dust?
How many M3's have industrial support?

>I'm well aware that the B&T has rails per the arbitrary requirements.
>implying rails was the only requirement.

>, but disallows their own servicemen to customize their handguns because they think so little of their intelligence.
>implying modularity was for servicemen to customize their guns

You are a brainlet of the highest caliber. I salute you.

B&T owners are perpetually in a state of
>COPE
Whenever they're reminded that they paid $2k for a ugly straight blowback gun.

i dont like where the optic is mounted

Do you have any idea how much an M3 weighs? Significantly more than an MP5.

Use a Mk18 or Colt SMG then. Was there really a pressing need for Israel's foreign legion to adopt the B&T?

>muh jews
No wonder you are too dumb to get it.

That doesn't answer the question.

Yes it does.

So why was the B&T necessary over everything else already in the US Army's inventory?

"everything else" was the MP5, to which is no longer supported in the config that the army has it in, and is inferior to the APC9.

What in the current US inventory fit the requirements?

Fuck you, you manlet version of UMP45