Would this be effective against level if body armor? I'm serious, no meme answers

I mean even if it doesn't penetrate whoever you hit is going to be sitting down for awhile, maybe need a glass of water too

>anti material rifles penetrate material
Yeah, no shit. I'm talking about using common shoulder fired weapons with standard ammo to defeat armor. 458 win mag is trash, but .22-250 is great.

He probably needs to be treated for a broken sternum.

Why are there so many fucking stupid people here today making terrible threads?

>level if
Does it deflect quandaries?

kek >The metal in the protector needs to be harder than the armor with enough force till get through it.
Try again, but in English this time.

not at all actually. I dont know why the idea of big heavy slow cartridges being good against body armor keeps coming up but it's wrong.
You want fast, narrow, and, if you can, sectionally dense loads . 5.56x45 m193 actually fares better against body armor than 308 ball for example.

>The metal in the protector needs to be harder than the armor with enough force till get through it.
steel isn't harder than ceramic, that isn't how this works.

these

I imagine the blunt force trauma would fuck somebody up good. I doubt it would penetrate though.

.458 magnum isn't going to penetrate but its going to break the ribs of whoever has been catching that lead. If somebody isn't wearing body armor then they'll be dead before they hit the ground

People need to be more specific.

If the goal is to penetrate armor, or if you're talking hard armor, then you're absoloutely correct.

However, if someone is wearing soft armor, its entirely possible for a magnum round to cause serious damage even if it does not penetrate the armor. Magnum hunting calibers like 458 win mag or the old nitro express elephant gun cartridges won't penetrate a kevlar vest, but they will certainly dent it into the body enough to break bones and rupture organs. The moment we start talking about HARD armor that all falls apart. Those big rounds have a ton of energy, but their sectional density is shit so they penetrate worse than many far weaker cartriges.

Level 4 armor is hard. It won't do shit if it doesn't penetrate, just the same way that the shooter firing the rifle doesn't break his shoulder while firing. Physics 101 Equal and opposite reactions.

You forgot the life vest.

the force of a 458 spread across a plate probably wont put you out of action.

Why dont you test that theory?

No, it would hurt like hell and might even kill from the trauma but it wouldn’t penetrat

I don't have to. If the force of the recoil over the relatively small buttpad is safe for the shooter, then the impact spread over a far larger armor plate is safe for the target.

Go back high school physics, you clearly didn't learn anything.

Does being that retarded hurt? Newtons third law retard.

>The metal in the protector needs to be harder than the armor with enough force till get through it.
that's not true
just look at how you can shoot through hardened steel plates with jacketed lead projectiles going fast enough

Projectile

I imagine getting lead through hardened steel would require a serious amount of force.

Based and physicspilled.

There are two main ways to penetrate: high hardness (like a tungsten carbide steel tip) OR high velocity (normal lead jacketed bullet at high velocity).

Getting anything through hardened steel requires a serious amount of force.

It's not "or". The velocity is really the dominant factor, by far. A harder projectile helps, but the two biggest factors, by far, are sectional density and velocity. Harder is better, yeah, but it's not as important as those two.

Do you have any sources where I can read more about this fascinating issue?

Back face deformation is still a thing with hard armor. Idk if .458 would cause enough to injure, but as a blanket statement that nothing happens if lvl 4 isn't penetrated is wrong.

>force and area
I keep seeing this but you guys always forget time.
When you fire a rifle it has the barrel length to accelerate and impart recoil, when a plate gets hit it has a bullets length to absorb nearly the same energy.

get a 375 h&h and load up some of the Sierra 300gr tungsten core bullets @ 2800fps. thats what I did.

Given that you're shooting a 458 Winchester Mag, even if it doesn't penetrate said armor, it's still dumping 5,000 ft/lbs of energy into you, which is like getting hit in the chest with a sledge hammer.

>serious
the guy hit by .458 win in the chest is not fighting back, regardless of penetration

A basic physics textbook
Hatcher's Notebook by Julian Hatcher
there are also countless videos up on YT of people shooting things with different rounds. Pay attention to what works and what doesnt.

>muh backface deformation
sure, one might dent a hard armor plate, and your body woud indeed have to absorb the energy imparted from that dent. But I think that's a really minor factor. Go watch, say, IV8888's firing of magnum rifles at Spartan AR500 steel armor. I think he even used 458 win mag, though it's been a while since I saw it so I may not be remembering right. But I know he used some heavy, comporable, shit. No dent worth discussing.

That example actually benefits the plate. You ever see that old martial arts demonstration where a dude holds a concrete block on his belly and some other guy smashes it with a sledgehammer? That's not so much a demonstration of badassness, as it is is a demonstration of inertia. a level 4 trauma plate weighs a fuck of a lot more than the incoming bullet does.

Why do you think that the guy firing the rifle can survive an equal-and-opposite impact on the rifle butt, while the guy wearing the armor can't withstand that same impact spread over a much much larger armor plate?

Is it because you're a fucking idiot who doesn't understand Newton's 3rd law?

Back face deformation can kill even if the plate catches the round. If your chest gets compressed an inch and a half in a hundredth of a second, you are in trouble.

>That example actually benefits the plate
You know that the plates inertia is the same no matter what speed it is hit right?
As for the guys with the bricks they provide a semi-solid backstop by tensing, if you are so ninja you can tense just before you get shot you can probably just doge bullets and ignore armor.

...to continue.
The sectional density thing is pretty easy to understand if you think about it:
Obviously, a heavier bullet has more energy than a lighter bullet travelling the same velocity, and thus delivers more force to the target. Heavy = good.

Also obviously, the smaller the diameter of the bullet the less material has to be deformed/broken in order to penetrate armor. Small=good.

Heavy + small diameter = high sectional density. A perfect example of this is a modern "tank dart" (APFSDS). It's long, and made of depleted uranium, which makes it heavy. It's narrow, which gives it high sectional density.

If you hasguns you can do an easy demonstration yourself. Get a piece of 1/2-inch thick lexan (polycarbonate). Fire a .45 ACP and a 9mm at it, both standard FMJ loads. The .45 will bounce off, leaving a shallow circular dent that looks like a ball-peen hammer hit it. The 9mm will go through. The .45 is actually the more powerful of the two rounds in terms of energy, but it has lower velocity and shitty sectional density. the faster, "denser", 9mm goes thru while the .45 fails miserably.

Find me a picture of a level 4 plate dented 1.5" deep.

>You know that the plates inertia is the same no matter what speed it is hit right?
Of course. I think you misunderstood me. The level 4 plate has more inertia than the *rifle*.

>As for the guys with the bricks they provide a semi-solid backstop by tensing,
That's what the example is supposed to make you think: wow, that dude's abs are killer. In reality you don't need much ab strength to do the demo because it's mostly inertia working in your favor.

>That's what the example is supposed to make you think
I know you don't need to be an Adonis but even in my semi-fat state I can take a hit much better tensed than I can relaxed.

>Back face deformation can kill even if the plate catches the round.

sure that is possible
but go watch the videos. 458 win mag does not put a "1.5" dent in a lvl 4 plate. it barely dents it at all, it's not even 1/4 inch.

>Hatcher's Notebook by Julian Hatcher
This is the kind of thing I was referring too, thank you very much.

I'm not saying that tensing doesn't help. I'm saying that interia is doing the overwhelming majority of the work for you.

>Find me a picture of a level 4 plate dented 1.5" deep
This one looks about 2 inch. The US military standard is 1 inch of back face deformation before they consider it lethal, and the rest of the world actually has tighter standards. A half inch deformation would more than likely break ribs/sternum.

Attached: download (1).jpg (259x194, 8K)

That appears to be some kind of composite that's splintered apart.

Where's the steel plate with a dent in it? Do you know what a dent is?

I don't think you understand physics as well as you think you do, but I'm too lazy to argue with you

You asked for a picture of level 4 armor with back face deformation, I provided. Sorry newfag. Most steel is level 3, not level 4. Level 4 is mostly ceramic.

.458 Win is the same cartridge case and powder loadings as the parent .30-06 so it will have the same approximate Energy (projectile mass x velocity).
So, a wider flatter .458 projo will be less penetrating and slower than a thinner pointier .30 projo.
>to penetrate body armour you want the .30
>.458 is for smashing bones on Elk

>fake expert or liar spotted
Back face deformation is the depth of deformation in a medium(in particular a specific sort of ballistic clay) placed behind a plate, not deformation of the plate itself. Your picture is a nothingburger.

Congrats on being homosexual, this stuff is easily available everywhere. Try Google

Attached: Hard-Armor-Options-for-Facing-Today’s-Higher-Threat-Levels.jpg (1280x720, 606K)

Hit the same spot of the armor. We could also call this, "striking" the chipped armor.

Shoot at armor.
Shoot at armor.

If you strike then strike the same spot.

Shoot the armor. If hit then hit chipped armor.
Penetration after hitting armor and chipped remnant armor.

>broken sternum
Why are there women on the battlefield?

If i put a bullet between me and the buttpad, will it penitrait?

How does dunning-krueger feel? Felt recoil is dependent not only on the amount of force and the size of the item applying the force, but also the amount of time that the force is applied. In physics this is called impulse. The powder does not burn instantly and therefore you have a longer amount of time for the force to be applied and an overall reduction in felt recoil, versus the target. In this case a steel or alloy plate that stops the bullet almost instantaneouslly.

Attached: Screenshot_20190504-185600.png (1440x2560, 313K)

22-250 up to 270 win with a brass match-tac from cutting edge is what you want.

That being said a .458 at 2000+fps with a safari solid would do a hell of a job also.

shoot quick to disrupt his aim then finish with a shot to the head

>.458 has the same approximate energy as .30-06
bruh

Attached: the-dude-the-big-lebowski.jpg (650x360, 167K)

That's not how guns work you stupid nigger. Nice bait though.

>impulse isn’t a thing
It’ll make the joker wearing the armor sit for sure. It’s being stopped over a much shorter area than it was accelerating from

This is a good intuition but in practice when firing it doesn't matter. The bullet will have left the barrel before the gun has moved to any significant extent. Where the impulse is spread to dampen the force is from the relatively heavy gun, therefore moving slowly, colliding with the shoulder, and being cushioned and slowed by the elasticity of the tissue and joints there. Similarly, a heavy plate that has received an impact without deformation will collide with the body at a slow speed and be cushioned by the underlying tissue, in this case over a much wider area. Now if there is backface deformation, then you would be correct, as that will happen very quickly, delivering an extremely sharp impulse to the body.

>completely ignoring the point and doubling down
Do you have brain problems? of course pictures of armor deformed by ballistic tests are available on google. That simply isn't how back face deformation is measured, and it proves literally nothing when talking about BFT risks.

KYS yourself fagtard.

People who actually understand what they're talking about

For all you retards that think it would do any damage to a person wearing hard armor: youtu.be/o5f1Fo4r4_I
458 win mag has twice the energy of 308 but it's still not gonna do shit to anyone wearing armor.

No.

>samefagging on a bait thread
heh

sad desu

Attached: you wish.png (818x417, 24K)

I don't think you understand just how powerful 458 win mag actually is.

Fuck you virgin

And yet when soldiers in the sandbox were hit in real live the usually were knocked unconscious and spent a week in the hospital.

Wait are you saying bullets hit harder than the amount of recoil i deal with when firing the weapon?
Well, i never.

Ar500 isnt level 4. Level 4 will severely bulge out with enough kinetic energy where as ar500 not so much.

>hard armor BARELY stops 308
>458 has twice the energy
>duuuhhh, da armor be bullet pwoof

...

Massively underrated