Was the Marder 3 H/M an effective SPG during WW2?
Was the Marder 3 H/M an effective SPG during WW2?
Anthony Gonzalez
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Ethan Gutierrez
It worked, the gun could take out most soviet tanks and a lot of Russians were killed by Marders, but the vehicle left the crew very vulnerable and was best used in defensive positions.
The M was better than the H
The Hetzer was a much better use of the Panzer 38(t) to carry a 75mm gun.
I think the Marder III looks cooler than the Hetzer though.
Brody Russell
You get what you pay for and Marders were cheap.
Logan Flores
How do you quantify "effective"?
Sebastian Hall
Yes, it could reliably kill any russian AFV from the front from 800 meters before the IS tank was fielded.
That said, most crews wanted to ride in literally anything else with a long 3 inch gun, as it was shittily armored for any point in the war, excessively noisy for the gun crew riding literally on top of the engine deck, and much too cold in fall and winter.
Justin Thompson
Imagine having to use russian guns to hit russian tanks because your shitty 5cm, short 7.5cm and 3.7cm can't do anything to tgem
Carter Fisher
Reliablility, Gun, Kills, mobility
Cooper Reed
imagine war is an ongoing process with both sides changing tactics and advancing technology rendering previous equipment obsolete. .
Owen Ramirez
Heavily modified russian guns using superior german ammunition because it was quicker and cheaper to reuse some of the thousands of guns captured from soviets than to wait for Pak 40s
Most Marder IIIs didn't use russian guns.
Landon Watson
>The Hetzer was a much better use of the Panzer 38(t) to carry a 75mm gun.
The Hetzer was an ergonomic nightmare which made it almost totally combat ineffective.
Just because it looks pretty doesn't make it good.
Jeremiah Perez
Thoughts on the Grille?
Cameron James
>Superior german ammunition
oh no no no
Joshua Hughes
German SPG's (AT class) were a fucking mess. Why they didnt simply focus on Nashorns from 1943 is fucking beyond me (yes, I concede that its big and perhaps there would be a need for a supplementary "light" spg)
>tfw you have the best AT-SPG of the war
>tfw you only make ~400 of them
Caleb Edwards
>Why they didnt simply focus on Nashorns from 1943 is fucking beyond me
Because you have Czechoslovakian factories already efficiently putting out a good volume of 38(t) chassis and getting them to weld a few steel plates around a 75 mm is easier?
Ian Clark
>german industry wasnt tooled for Panzer 3/4 production
Jayden Lewis
>tfw you have the best AT-SPG of the war
that's not SU-100
Andrew Flores
I was bringing material cost into my estimation. Decent mobility, insane gun, not too much steel.
Sebastian Martinez
Right, so what do you propose to do with the excess capacity of 38(t) production?
Christopher Hernandez
>It is impossible to re-tool
>Germany did not lack armored SPAAG
Plenty of other uses, as apposed to running a chassis in front line roles long past its prime usefulness.
Kevin Cooper
Because those giant ass SPGs were retarded as anything but siege weapons? There's a reason that StuGs were vastly more effective than ANY other German armour in the war and it's because on a SPG, you don't need a big ass target. You need a gun, a loader, a gunner and possibly a driver and have it work.
The Germans fucked up more by not putting the Entwicklung series into production and simplifying their entire system of production.
Jayden Cruz
>Plenty of other uses
Such as?
>It is impossible to re-tool
So why didn't you do it, if it's so easy? How many automotive/armaments factories have you re-tooled?
>chassis in front line roles long past its prime usefulness.
How is a prime mover with a deadly 75 mm AT gun past it's prime? The PAK 40 could knock out almost any Allied tank up until 1945.
Matthew Nelson
Well, AT guns are ambush predators by nature, so generally they will be positioned. Plenty of wide open spaces in Europe where the range of the Pak 43 would negate the size of the vehicle required to operate it.
Like I said, there is obviously a need for another light gun platform to mitigate the relatively cumbersome nature of the nashorn. My criticism was that it was given such a low priority and then shitcanned for the Jagdpanzer IV
>Entwicklung series
If they had standardized anything, at all, along any series, it would have been a massive improvement.
Zachary Rogers
Holy shit, you are getting upset.
>Such as?
SPAA, SPG Art.
>So why didn't you do it, if it's so easy?
Because I wasnt alive in 1943. I know you are upset but this is getting silly.
>How is a prime mover with a deadly 75 mm AT gun past it's prime?
How is it better than a prime mover with an even better gun?
Jack White
>SPAA, SPG Art.
Pretty sure they made SPGs on the 38(t) chassis, and the Marder was one of them, lmao.
>Because I wasnt alive in 1943.
Well you obviously know better. Why didn't fucking Hitler or whoever was charged with armaments programs come to your conclusions? Were they dumber than some white-bread internet moron from middle America?
>How is it better than a prime mover with an even better gun?
Many different ways, ammunition capacity, concealment, road going maneuverability, reliability of the 38(t) chassis, cost effectiveness.
Sorry, you just haven't made a convincing case for a better use of the 38(t) chassis than the Marder series.
***ssssssiiipppp***
Michael Sanders
It was effective in that it worked, and was feasible to produce.
Lucas Martinez
>Why they didnt simply focus on Nashorns from 1943 is fucking beyond me
Because hulls those hulls would be better used as hummels, and are similar to pz-IIIs and IVs that you're better off building StuGs.
Andrew Russell
Dude, what if we took an antitank gun, and put a chassis on it
No armor or anything fancy, just plop it on a tractor
Levi Butler
>what do you do with excess 38(t) production
Jagdpanzer 38(t)s
>1943
>not having a remote weapons system
Carter Mitchell
Everything you said is correct but the super turbofaggoty way you wrote your post ruins anything you tried to say
William Kelly
Better build quality.
Eli Gutierrez
>longer case with more propellant, giving it more power than the original commie ammo
>probably a better shell at the end too
>not superior
Brandon Kelly
It just works (tm)
Christopher Brown
>Jagdpanzer 38(t)s
A defective design that could barely be utilized in combat by its crews. How is that better?
Charles Thompson
I'm sorry you're either a homosexual or a nu-male, and direct language offends you.
Try some grass-fed meat one day.
Jonathan Turner
Not him but you write like an absolute faggot.
>***ssssssiiipppp***
You have to go back.
Chase Allen
I get that a lot from Amerisharts, which is funny because you "people" have fulfilled the prophecy:
Nicholas Green
>everyone on Jow Forums is american.
There is international consensus, you write like a faggot.
Henry Collins
Samefaggin it up I see.
Nolan Torres
Nope, this is me Any more faggotry you wish to unleash on me today?