>The year is 1986
>You're an M60 Patton crewman
>Through your periscope, behind a ridgeline, you survey the Soviet horde arrayed in the Fulda Gap, from ridge to valley to ridge, through mowed under forest, as far as the eye can see
>Your geiger counter clicks, a reminder of the radiation drifting west from backpack nukes detonated in Berlin and other key cities by west German stay behind forces
>Sonic booms rattle your tank as B-1 Lancers flying nap-of-the-earth pass meters overhead, surging toward the enemy lines to deliver their conventional payloads
>The sky is a melee of attack helicopters and CAS aircraft from both sides, withering in the face of SAMs and making little progress.
>An artillery barrage lasting almost a minute is capped by the overflight and detonation of a swarm of submarine launched guided missiles, landing somewhere behind the Red lines.
>Finally the order is given
>"ALL NATO UNITS THIS NET. ADVANCE! I SAY AGAIN, ADVANCE!"
Post YFW
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Bonus points: What song starts playing?
Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries" is perhaps cliched, so let's go with some Motorhead.
why would west german stay behind forces detonate nukes in berlin early in a confrontation?
A classic
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>Oh shit, I'm actually in a T-55
>Be German soldier
>Be in apartment building an hour after they rolled across the border
>The new private screams from multiple shrapnel and gunshot wounds
>Your sergeant shouts at the soviets down the hall while spraying it with his MG3.
>You peek out in the courtyard and see streams of reds coming out of BTRs and rushing into the building.
>Thunderous shocks go throughout the city as small mushroom clouds appear on the other side of the city, and far off in the distance.
>As your commanding officer is shot in the neck, he orders you to detonate the backpack nuke before you're overrun
> you think about your wife and kids, most likely already killed by the initial bombings
>The Soviets took Berlin once, they will not do so again
>Your hand hits the button
Mein Nigger
To deny them use of Templehof?
The Central Front in Germany in the late Cold War is the nightmare scenario for the West. The Sovs had a big, big hammer to swing against NATO all the way up and down the inter-German border. The "ink blot" style frontal attack is a historical Russian favorite and in 1986 they had the numbers to carry it out.
US troops in Germany trained with the assumption that the war would go nuclear almost immediately. Cav scouts and artillery forward observers in the Fulda Gap had orders to call in tac nuke artillery on their own positions and die in place. Training assumed that US forces would be on the wrong end of six-to-one numerical odds, backed up with chemical weapons and tactical nukes, of which the Soviets were believed to have enormous stockpiles, plus dedicated decon engineer units that could allow them to slime an area of West Germany fifty miles deep with VX in a matter of minutes, and ignore it as they drove through it minutes later.
One of the results of this was the training rotations at NTC and doctrine for the units that ate the Iraqis alive in less than four days of ground combat in 1991, though we suppose the Eighth Guards Tank Army would have given a better account of themselves.
By that time V Corps had transitioned to M1s
>The Soviets took Berlin once, they will not do so again
Do you not know the borders of the DDR?
blah blah east and west berlin just let me have my fantasy okay
>aircraft from both sides
>implying warsaw pact had more than a snowballs chance against NATO air superiority
Please educate yourself.
It's on, you Stalin loving fucks
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I know the song isn't time correct
>86
>inna patton
Abrams or bust nigga
In the first few days local air superiority would have been vigorously contested all the way up and down the front, at a bare minimum.
Soviet Frontal Aviation and the PVO (interceptor units from the interior of the USSR) were FUCKING ENORMOUS. Soviet commanders would have been more than willing to bring in regiment after regiment of MiG-21 and MiG-23 interceptor units from the Soviet interior and burn them up like cordwood to create temporary areas of uncontested air supremacy through which to move transports full of paratroopers, of which the Warsaw Pact had something like six or seven divisions total ready to go in the mid 80s) west, with swarms of Su-25s, MiG-27s, and helicopter gunships for support.
The only thing that could have plausibly even interrupted this would have been the Special Forces teams supposedly tasked with making one-way suicide runs into East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, and Poland to use backpack nukes against Soviet air bases all over the Western TVD.
Retaliation in kind would most likely have been not long in coming. Which is one reason the French, for example, had their own nuclear arsenal and the Pluton IRBMs dispersed all over eastern France to retaliate in the event the Russians, accidentally or intentionally, nuked them too.
Things would most likely have escalated in a matter of hours. The guys in the silos out west and the boomers just outside Soviet waters would surely have emptied the holes by day 2 or 3. And the Soviets would have done the same. And the Chinese, and the Indians and Pakistanis would surely have nuked one another like they've been threatening to do the past forty-five years.
It would have been very messy, and not limited to Germany.
Interesting topic. I was in Romania recently and saw an enormous field of rusting btr-60's. Hundreds of them. I suppose in our 1986 scenerio they would have been headed northwest into an irradiated nightmare. Now they are just scrap.
I think you give the slavs way too much credit.
Any evidence of "West German backpack nuke suicide units"? Or does that come from some kind of work of fiction?
With the mid-range ballistic missiles each side had, plus air droppable nuclear weapons, I don't see backpacks as being worth it unless you really wanted to startle the WP with a small first strike. Which would likely quickly escalate.
I don't know if any were ever under Bundeswehr control, but go Google for Special Atomic Demolitions Munition.
Yes, the US had backpack nukes stockpiled in Europe. In the event of war, so far as I am aware it would have been units of the 10th Special Forces Group in West Germany who would have gotten the orders to use them. I have no information about what their intended or planned targets would have been, but Soviet air bases and naval facilities, and the big rail yards all over the Warsaw Pact countries, seem likely to me to be pretty high on the hit list for obvious reasons.
This is an 11/99 emergency I repeat 11:99 Emergency!
THEY HAVE GUNSHIPS!
AMERICA IS UNDER ATTACK!
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Suicide units? no, that's bullshit.
SADM was used in the 60's and such because it was easier to sneak a small team across the border and take out vital infrastructure than it was to bomb it.
SADM was in inventory at least until 1996.
There's a difference between in the inventory and in service
They aren't Arabs.
france probably would have been the first place to get nuked to deny reinforcements for nato. nato would have to nuke france aswell to stop the soviets if they made it that far
all french deserve to die so im so sad ww3 didnt happen
That's what I was asking about, thanks. I don't doubt at all that there were small nuclear devices that would be placed in a facility or on a critical piece of infrastructure. Only part I saw as dubious was the idea of an American of German soldier donning one and detonating it. That seemed silly.
I remember one user here was talking about a relative in one of the Eastern Bloc countries that would be tasked with finding vital NATO sites and reporting them, then being given a few minutes warning before a nuke was sent at the area they were in. WW3 would have been some very nasty stuff if it was playing out in a way that friendly losses/fire was not being seen as a big issue.
I would be in a superior T-80 instead
I think you give the slavs way too little credit.
>T-80
>superior
The Patton was the best mid cold war tank you fucker
what quality made it superior?
Retard
t. Hitler
I'm not saying they're up to western standards but they are the same people who btfo'd the frogs and the krauts.
In literally no way.
not that user, i always heard crew training
>The year is 1986
>You're an M60 Patton crewman
Are you kidding, who the fuck would want to be stinky natofaggot scum pestilence?
where does one find this sort of thing out of curiosity?
>The Soviets took Berlin once
Russians took Berlin twice.
en.wikipedia.org
Didnt the Soviets plan for the czech to get to Paris in like a week or something insane like that?
>it was the best tank because crew training
Lol so it wasn't the best tank then.
The early M60s were good, but not amazing compared to other western tanks.
By the A3 variant, the tank was getting somewhat out of date, there were some tanks it could face that it might struggle to penetrate at combat ranges depending on the rounds available, conversely it's armor was pretty weak against most antitank weapons and even the oldest Soviet MBTs it could face could penetrate frontally it at long ranges, with updated ammunition.
An M60 in 1986 is definately past it's prime, T-72As were relatively common at that point and if they were facing guard units they could go up against T-64Bs and T-80Bs
The US definately wanted to replace the M60 sooner but couldn't, as evidenced by the multiple failed MBT projects in the late 60s and 70s that featured composite armor, larger guns and better mobility.
I miss playing this game.
By then, the M60 would've had a thermal imager and digital FCS, as well as an LRF.
Amerishit actually believe this
Mein Negger
Anyone with a working brain
god I wish it were me
depends on what your definition of suicide is, really. While they would probably not have detonated the devices while they were still carrying them, getting sent deep into enemy territory with no chance of exfil and detonating a radioactive device that you may or may not be able to escape the blast of before it goes off, is still a suicide mission.
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DLC : Britfags
Who is this fucking retard talking fantasies about nuke mines and backpack nukes? Jesus shut the fuck up you fucking spastic.
Right? Nuclear artillery and tactical wahead tipped missiles were designed BEFORE nuclear demolition charges, as backpack nukes were only ever little more than a nuclear artillery shell rigged with a manual detonator in the first place. They were mostly only developed to show off how good we were at miniturizing nuclear warheads anyways.
Handing a manually detonated nuke to somebody and telling them you've picked them out for a one way trip is a pretty terrible delivery system when you could just put one in the tip of a cruise missile for essentially the same effect.
A nuclear tipped cruise missile isn't going to get resentful and decide to set itself up as the new nuclear capable warlord of tinpotia, or sell its warhead to the highest bidding middle eastern extremist group.
"back pack nukes" were pretty much designed as demonstrator pieces for how good our tech was and little more. Literally any other delivery system is more efficient and reliable than just telling some guy to literally walk to the target and kill himself with it.
Great song mate
T-80 also had an LRF straigt from the start. One of the several reasons it was way more expensive then the T-72A.
>By the A3 variant, the tank was getting somewhat out of date
That's true, but at the same time, the A3 had laser rangefinder, thermal sights, and ballistic computer similar to what the early M1s had. Which were an enormous step upward from stadia rangefinders.
Also, in 1986, depleted uranium ammo was available for the 105mm guns. It wasn't universally available. Most units doled it out like it was made of gold. A tank would have maybe half a dozen rounds of "silver bullets," the rest would be older tungsten sabot rounds that didn't perform quite so well.
The Russians managed to get their hands on some captured 105mm DU ammo in Lebanon in 1983. They tested it against the up-armored T64s and T80s and collectively shat their pants.
The early Leopard IIs were better tanks in almost every way, no doubt, though they didn't have thermal sights until after the Wall came down. The Rheinmetall 120mm gun, and even the weird rifled 120mm guns the British were using on the Chieftains, outclassed the 105 in every way. But it wasn't a Nerf dart.
en.wikipedia.org
They were in inventory in Europe at least until 1996.
Now, I know Mommy thinks you're working on homework, but you really need to get off the computer and go outside. Grownups are talking. kthx
>"back pack nukes" were pretty much designed as demonstrator pieces for how good our tech was and little more.
Demonstrator? For whom? The fact that they existed at all was classified until the Wall came down.
>Handing a manually detonated nuke to somebody and telling them you've picked them out for a one way trip is a pretty terrible delivery system when you could just put one in the tip of a cruise missile for essentially the same effect.
I know, right? Especially before cruise missiles had been used in combat, in an era when everyone still remembered early attempts like Snark and BOMARC that blew up on the launch rails more often than they launched, and crashed a hundred yards from the launcher more often than they got anywhere near a test range target that WASN'T surrounded by rings of Russian SAM launchers.
Get in your time machine and go back to the 1970s and tell President Nixon and Secretary of Defense Schlesinger what a stupid idea it was. Just by the way you write, I can tell you're the smartest guy in the thread, maybe the smartest guy in the world. Surely a lot smarter than anybody at the Pentagon that decided that SADM was needed, or those guys at Livermore who actually designed the thing. Why are you wasting time on a Mongolian throat-singing image board when you could be working for RAND Corporation writing papers on nuclear strategy, anyway?
No that was the M1 abrams.
The Abrams didn't enter duty until the Cold War was almost over.
For the mid-Cold War era, the M60 is a serious contender for best tank, along with the Centurion. The T62 rates an honorable mention for being the first tank fielded with a modern ultra high velocity smoothbore gun and an autoloader.
>Uh oh, somebody thinks my pet idea is stupid!
>better bust out the ad hominems!
T-series had some severe survivability issues that the M-60 didnt that werent addressed until the T-80. A major one was the ammo storage was terrible and highly susceptible to sympathetic detonation.
One could argue that when m-60's went up against T series tanks in iraq and tore them apart it probably was a fairly good demonstration at how vulnerable the pre t-80's T-series really were to the M-60.
But they were also crewed by dumbass Iraqis and the "but those were monkey-model export variants" can always be made too. All anyone can say with certainty is that the M-60 was a capable tank that could easily hold its own against any other tank of its era.
>Ten years before the Cold War ended is "almost over"
You need to find some other outlet for your frenzied mental masturbation. Soviets would have been shot out of the sky. Most of their armour wouldn't have made it out of the barracks front gate. Calm yourself, take a cold shower or go for a run or something.
>T-series
>Soviet anything
>superior
Kek, kys tranny tankie
> same people who btfo'd the frogs and the krauts.
Weather fucking up logistics and men is the same as russian martial supremacy.
>Mid cold war
>Only in service for the last ten years
Your reading comprehension is shit isn't it?
>Seething redditor cope.
Oh well I guess you were right you convinced me.
New developers ran PR into the ground so hard with their new stupid damage system.
RIP.
>Your reading comprehension is shit isn't it?
>The Abrams didn't enter duty until the Cold War was almost over.
Okay let's hear your mental gymnastics on how this isn't actually what you wrote, I look forward to it
Right? Didn't we later find out that like half of soviet interceptor and bomber squadrons were just sillouhettes painted on the tarmac to fool our satellites and that the actual soviet airforce was much smaller than any of the official estimates we made?
There were no Bundeswehr troops allowed in Berlin by law/agreement, also no conscription of (West) German Berlin citizens.
Guy got all hot and bothered after watching red dawn and threads so he posted some cold war fap-fiction. Can't blame him, a lot of crazy shit was going on that we can only speculate about so its ripe territory for dramatic writing.
>user says M60 was the best mid cold war tank
>Nuh uh it was the M1
>M1 only existed for the last ten years; i.e. after the middle of the cold war
Do I need to draw a picture?
Why did you say "The Abrams didn't enter duty until the Cold War was almost over" ? Not that it was even the only thing wrong with your post.
About a week ago, an user posted the training video for deploying a SADM. Iirc, the least amount of time you could put on the timer was 5 minutes. The most was something like 23 hours, 55 minutes or somesuch. It’s a fairly simple device, but if you don’t do the 4 or 5 activation steps just right, it’s just an expensive doorstop. Iirc, you have to use a combination to open the fusing well for the charge that fires the explosive lenses.
Wasn't even me but
>Cold war lasts 46 years
>Tank enters service (not even present in large numbers until 3 years later) in the last ten years
>Not almost over
K whatever dude
Nuh uh, d00d. That guy keeps saying the SADM never existed, and anyone who mentions it is posting about his "stupid pet idea." I'm sure he knows more than you do, or Wikipedia, or the multiple declassified training videos on the SADM you can see on Youtube, like youtube.com
I can only conclude that he's just another bored sweet summer child trying to get a rise out of people. He should really gb2/b/.
They were shit and outdated, but the Soviets had a lot of crappy interceptors during that year, enough to temporarily contest airspace by sheer weight of numbers as the USAF scrambled from the other side of the world.
The US had shitloads of airbases in Europe, especially UK.
what dis
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