Are bullpups really that bad?

Don't buy shit from Turkey, they have a worse reputation than China. But generally speaking, if your long gun isn't a DI AR that actually needs the stock because of the buffer, it needs to be a bullpup.

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Apparently world militaries don't agree.

forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/100455-tristar-bullpup-shears-bolt-lug-and-injures-shooter/

Check this out. The one from Tristar (Armsan owns them) exploded on someone.

Not a fan of Turkshit

They're worse at speed reloading and don't have the best triggers, but those are not critical outside of competition situations.

It seems the barrel advantage would always win out in a battle situation.

>that picture
FUCK

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>people who only buy shit from the lowest bidder should be seen as the unquestionable authority on what firearms people should use.
lol

Who cares if nobody else is making them? They're shit.

What’s with the picture?

Are you autistic

Old guy whose wife died, they used to eat every week at that booth in that restaurant... so he still does, with her picture

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my little bro bouth one of those century ak bullpup conversions about 10 years back. it was absolute garbage. Ive shot a borrowed Tavor at the range, nothing but good things to say about it.

>Bullpup detachable magazine shotgun hecho en TURKEY
That sounds so awful user

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I've literally yet to see one bad review.

Well of course a conversion woulid be bad.
Speed reloading isn't necessary anyways.

looks like an AK bullpup

>Soviets and Burgers experimented and dropped the concept
>China is dropping bullpups for conventional
>France, New Zealand, and others dropping it
>Western and Russian special forces overwhelmingly use conventional designs
Yea no, it’s a dead concept

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why do you think they are in the first place? because some anons on a guatemalan boat waxing forum jerked each other off and told you it was?

WOW REALLY
NICE DETECTIVE WORK, BATMAN

To be fair it's mostly because soldiers complained that it wasn't what they were used to and they were more expensive to develop and infantry doesn't matter anymore.

We're like 5 steps away from giving all soldiers SMGs because the only thing they're really good for anymore is clearing buildings when command won't just let you HE the shit out of it.

Literally everyone in any gun community bitches about it.

>ejection port right next to your ear
this is advanced tinnitus

Wear earpro.
Nearly every complaint I hear about bullpups seems to be nitpicky to me.

What about the P90?
Tell me why isn't the P90 the best SMG/PDW in the world.

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>vehicle entry and exit are the only uses for the bullpup design
What if I want to open a door without lowering my weapon? What if I want to do literally anything with my offhand while also keeping my gun readied?

This is not accurate.

All military designs for conventional and bullpup servics rifles have converged on an ovrrall length of 29-32 inches. What this means is that militaries prioritise OAL over barrel length if they have to. Thr choice is therefore not between a 39 inch conventional design with a 20 inch barrel and a 30 inch bullpup design with a 20 inch barrel, it's between two 30 inch rifles, one with a 20 inch barrel that maintains bullet fragmentation to 200m and a 14.5 inch barrel that maintains bullet fragmentation to 100m.

The whole question for service rifles purely comes down to whether losing 70-100m worth of respectable intermediate calibre lethality is worth reloads that are a half a second faster and a shorter and more consistent (but equal weight) trigger pull. If you're a civilian who shoots steel and paper that doesn't shoot back, that's an easy answer.

Almost more of an abortion than Wugs'

*SSSIIIPPPP*
good enough for Colonel O'Neil and our boys in black, good enough for me.

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>meme feed gets jammed every 2 seconds

It's less reliable and larger than its only real competitor, the MP7 which just about ever shooter prefers.

The P90 looks cooler though

How is the VR80? I've been considering one for my first shotgun. I'm a southpaw faggot so these cheap Turk bullpups are a no-go for me.

stop using the AE rounds. they cause that from squash.

>pic
RIIIIIP

Underrated post. Never thought of this

>What if I want to open a door without lowering my weapon?
Point it up instead of down

Well like I said, infantry is no longer expected to engage anything past 200m anymore, so obviously the answer for militaries is to go conventional.

Okay smartass.

>offhand
Do you mean non-dominant hand?

Yeah, I've heard both used for the same thing.

Offhand means unsupported. As in shooting from an unsupported position, for example standing, vs a supported position, for example a bench rest.
Non-dominant hand means... non-dominant hand.

Yes, infantry don't engage targets past 200, which is why every serious military gives every one of their infantry $1700-$2500 optics for their rifles, and commonwealth militaries and marines give every infantryman either a grippod or a bipod.

Tldr no ur wrong

Reloads aren't any slower or faster with a bullpup, it all comes down to training and familiarity.
>old gud, new different, therefore bad!

I'd say that poor triggers matter more to civilian paper shooters.

Reloads are slower with bullpups because your master hand is not co-located with a magazine release and/or bolt release as they are for a conventional design which means that you need to reach for more controls, and because the magazine well is outside of your line of sight which means that you need to move your line of sight outside of the target area where it started.

I think bullpups are generally better than conventional designs, that doesn't mean they're as good in every way.

that argument strictly speaking can be completely ignored due to training.

Think of an AK, you release the magazine at the same time that you grab it, the concept is identical on a bullpup. the only way a co-located mag release, like in the AR, is faster, is if you are literally dropping your magazine on the ground at the same time as you grab a new one. however traditional doctrine has you saving your empty magazine so that is a relatively mute point.

Reload speed is only slower for bullpups if you do speed reloads. Otherwise they're basically just as fast if you like to keep your magazines for later use.

Send me some videos of your best AUG reload times and we'll talk.

youtube.com/watch?v=sXvUtvC7nxs

someone doesn't know how to find inf for themselves

>current year
>thinking smg's are still useful

Everyone will be issued SBR AR-platform rifles. The future is now, old man.

Now compare them to the fastest AR15 pattern reloads.

>literally requires to be spoon fed.
>not knowing burden of proof lies on the claimant who says they are inherently slower.

also no one said anything about comparing to an AR platform said "a conventional design" which only means mag in front of trigger in this context.

While standing, and *assuming equivalent training*, there is no speed lost from the inherent bullpup design.

IF your talking about prone, then sure it is a lot more awkward to reload since it requires your silhouette to change to accommodate the magazine that close to your shoulder.

>implying the reload is as fast as a well designed conventional design in any circumstances

We're done here.

Show me a video of a p90 malfunctioning?

Like this one from a super respected small arms researcher and armourer?

youtu.be/aZj8aleUAHg

Yes.

In my state, modern crawlspace requires 3ft clearance within the crawl so there can be room to move about ventilation, plumbing, and electric.

So probably more room than between APC tread

It failed using ammunition from a thrid party.
It's the ammunition fault, not the weapon.

>It's less reliable and larger than its only real competitor, the MP7 which just about ever shooter prefers.
It's look larger than the MP7 with the stock deployed and the 30round mag.
Also, in the NATO trials the MP7 lost everywhere. It's proven to be an inferior weapon system to the P90.

I want to punch that bitch with her smirking eyes.

Not that guy, but my dominant hand is my left but my dominant eye is my right, so I still shoot right handed. Offhand would be more accurate.

Its heavy as fuck for its size and despite having low recoil due to the 5.7 round direct blowback makes the point of aim jiggle way more than it has any right to.

you need to be 18 to post you absolute child
youtu.be/P-BVc6abkcU?t=30

user please those are my feelings you're hurting

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Offhand means what you said, off hand means what he said. lrn 2 englush

No, you're using the word wrong.

Those optics are only $1,000 dollars to civilians. They're like $50 each for militaries.

It's a difference of about half-a-second while gaining the advantage of being good for CQB AND long-range.
It's a superior design held back by fudd military armourers, low IQ soldiers, and the lack of importance of infantry in modern combat.

I bought an RFB because I wanted a shorter OAL in a REAL FUCKIN NATO rifle without sacrificing barrel length. I like it, it’s shorter than my 16” ARs (even collapsed) and nice and maneuverable.

I probably wouldn’t go for a bullpup in anything smaller however, as something like an AR is small and light enough already.

I can understand bullpup shotguns because of the minimum barrel length in the US

I was thinking about one of those but I might just wait and save up for a Desert Tech in 7.62. AR-style mag-releases are the future and they might finally be the thing that gets people to stop bitching about how bullpups aren't ARs.

Desert tech is a fucked company. DO NOT give them your money. Google it.

If I had unlimited money to spend I’d get a Tavor 7 (inb4 jews) but I don’t think it presents enough of an improvement over the RFB to justify the significantly higher price

Hello, RFB brother. Same but also because it took FAL mags and I plan on getting an SA58 as a BR and a RRA LAR-8 as a DMR in the future to keep everything consistent and easy and to collect copies to store them mostly for surplus as I hoard.

But for a go to 762 NATO bullpup, has the right idea. MDRs are the SCARs of bullpups and there are even 762x39 aftermarket conversions. Can't be beat

Pic not related but I also want

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If its for moral reasons, I couldn't care less, I only care if their product is bad.

> giving money to backstabbing/ bankrupt/ vaporware manufacturers ever
> giving money to some sucker who did it first because gunsamerica, gunbroker, armslist exist
Pick one

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Depends on the rifle. Most are, some of the newer, more thought out ones like te kel tech rdb are actually pretty decent imo

fs2000 best gun

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JUST

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>Too bulbous
>feels like a supersoaker
>shitty magwell
it's far from perfect bro
The only thing that is of value was the shell eject system

no
it's the best

KSG

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Her name is Nina Nikazm, Columbus Ohio

>t.never handled one