Should the government allow sale of firearms to those with a known gang or organized crime affiliation...

>How does that help? The idea behind barring violent felons from owning weapons is to make it less likely that they'll shoot someone in the future.
The financial barrier is the only real barrier. Illegal guns aren't hard to find if you're already plugged into the criminal world. The ban on gun ownership for felons is just a cosmetic law.

If they're so criminal, why doesn't the government put them in jail for that, instead of inventing pointless, distracting extra crimes that might screw over random innocents?

>The idea behind barring violent felons from owning weapons is to make it less likely that they'll shoot someone in the future.

No, the idea was to make a crime out of a non-crime, so you'd have an excuse to arrest a known criminal even if you couldn't prove they'd committed a real crime recently, but thought they needed caging regardless.

Sort of like how you can get arrested for resisting arrest.

shall not

>it doesn't work
Do you believe that violent felons would be less likely to use firearms in their crimes if they could legally purchase and carry them? If so, why do you believe that? Don't forget that an added bonus of the law is that a felon can be easily slapped with extra prison time when they get re-arrested.

>quoting the wrong amendment
None of the amendments exist in a vacuum.

>might screw random innocents
If you are mistakenly convicted of a felony losing your right to bear arms is the least of your worries. As I said before, you can have your rights reinstated if you can show that you have your shit together.

That's a retarded idea. It will inevitably be used to abuse honest citizens. And if a "arrest known criminals" law is needed, why not make it just that?

>being a felon or having a known crime affiliation is a crime

wew. It's that easy. This is classic burger wishy-washing. Americans can't into civil liberties, but they can't into authoritarianism either. It's the worst of both worlds.

>Do you believe that violent felons would be less likely to use firearms in their crimes if they could legally purchase and carry them?
No, I think they would have the same exact likelyhood. As criminals don't obey laws.

The fact that they bothered to buy it legally is probably a sign of reform. or at least a step away from reprobate behavior.

>It will inevitably be used to abuse honest citizens.
No shit.

>And if a "arrest known criminals" law is needed, why not make it just that?
Because that is too transparently illegal to do. You have to obfuscate injustice so that a sufficient number of the dimmer members of society won't recognize it and object.

Faggot

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> you can have your rights reinstated if you can show that you have your shit together.

If they aren't yours by default they aren't rights.

>Do you believe that violent felons would be less likely to use firearms in their crimes if they could legally purchase and carry them?
I think trying to classify people as "violent felons" is a smokescreen meant to get society to stop thinking about people as actual people, but rather as some amorphous mass of which they should be terrified. I think that somebody who wants something bad enough to kill or rob for it isn't going to be stopped by some law telling him not to break the law. I think treating people as second-class citizens after their time has been served actively incentivizes recidivism, since they're already being treated like a mad dog on a frayed leash anyway. I think that was the entire point of passing laws that treat them as such.
>Don't forget that an added bonus of the law is that a felon can be easily slapped with extra prison time when they get re-arrested
How is it an "added bonus" to anybody except the fucks who make money off of their cheap labor while the American people get tax money taken out of their pockets to pay for their food and housing?

>As I said before, you can have your rights reinstated if you can show that you have your shit together.
If you have to beg and scrape to "have your rights reinstated", then they aren't really rights, but government-granted privileges.

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>If you have to beg and scrape to "have your rights reinstated", then they aren't really rights, but government-granted privileges.

This

gov shouldn't have a hand in it
any and all sales should be up to the discretion and/or bias of the shop's employees/owner

without exception

The government shouldn't exist.

So in your opinion laws have no appreciable impact on the cost or availability of certain goods? Do you have any evidence to back that up?

Please read the 5th amendment. All of your rights can be stripped from you if you are convicted of a crime. This has been part of the constitution since the bill of rights was ratified in 1791. It isn't a new development.

See above. You have to "beg and scrape" to get paroled too, but I don't see you crying about that. You violate the law, you lose your rights. That's the deal.

>So in your opinion laws have no appreciable impact on the cost or availability of certain goods
No, and that is not what I said or implied. I said it would not affect the fact that criminals who desire them will continue to acquire and use guns. Laws don't stop criminals, pretending they do is foolish.

>All of your rights can be stripped from you if you are convicted of a crime.
Indefinitely? Was that really the intent, or just a finagling of the spaces in-between by those who came to power much later and decided they wanted more power?

Parole is a condition in which you are released from prison while still serving your sentence, on the expectation of good behavior. It's literally not the same thing as continuing to have your inalienable rights invalidated after your sentence has been served, you disingenuous cunt.

No man has a natural right to commit aggression on the equal rights of another; and this is all from which the laws ought to restrain him.
— Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Francis W. Gilmer (27 June 1816)

>Indefinitely?
You can be executed or imprisoned for life, so yes.

>after your sentence has been served
As you said, your sentence isn't necessarily over just because you are not physically in a prison. The way I see it, the loss of your right to bear arms (and right to vote in some places) is just part of your sentence.

>You can be executed or imprisoned for life, so yes
Not we were talking about and you damn well know that. Once again, blatantly disingenuous.
>As you said, your sentence isn't necessarily over just because you are not physically in a prison.
If you are sentenced to a certain amount of time served or a fine levied, the sentence is over when that time is up and/or that fine is paid, and there is no justification for continuing to treat a person like he is still under sentence simply because he cannot (or chooses not to) afford to go through an unnecessary legal process to beg for rights that he was guaranteed at birth.

Justify it all you want to; it helps nobody except those in power.

NOT

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>Your rights go up in smoke when you violate the rights of others.
Is there any proof that when ppl back in the day (Founding fathers era)went to trial and lost, that they lost the right to bare arms?

No, because felons didn't universally lose the right to bare arms until the 1968 GCA was passed. That's not important in my opinion since the 5th does not put any restrictions on how or what restrictions can be placed on your rights if you are convicted of a crime.

>Not we were talking about and you damn well know that. Once again, blatantly disingenuous.
Explain why you think that's not a valid point. Being executed or sentenced to life in prison is a pretty definitive way to strip someone of their rights forever.

>If you are sentenced to a certain amount of time served or a fine levied, the sentence is over when that time is up and/or that fine is paid
Pedophiles have their right to freedom of movement and freedom of association seriously limited even after they have completed their sentences. Just like losing your right to vote or bare arms that is codified into law as a penalty for certain crimes.

>known gang or organized crime affiliation
You fucking quoted "due process of law", how the fuck don't you know what it means?
The cops claiming to "know" something, without an actual crime being proved in court, sure isn't it.

BE

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FRINGED

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It should depend on the crime, the defendant's degree of culpability, remorse, and likelihood of recidivism.

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>Pedophiles have their right to freedom of movement and freedom of association seriously limited even after they have completed their sentences.
Knew you'd bring that up. It's literally the line you niggers have been establshing for decades as your fallback point whenever your authoritarian bullshit is challenged. They shouldn't, either. The Sex Offender Registry is just as much of a shit idea as every other government registry, and it does nothing to protect anybody. If they are such a danger to children that they are required to be treated as ravening rapists just waiting for another opportunity, how on earth do you justify letting them out of prison in the first place?

Your policies actively encourage people to go even further into the hole they may or may not have put themselves in, because there is no realistic way out of it when people like you want to keep punishing them after they have served their time. You have ensured that virtue is no safeguard to further persecution and, as a result, you have destroyed the expectation of security forever for it. Why you did this when people three hundred years ago explicitly warned you not to, I will never know, but I have to assume it's an ego thing or a power thing. It usually is.

These scum criminals should be punished with public hanging. Then our rights will be OUR rights, as individuals, and won't be manipulated by the actions of the lowest common denominator

Fuck you there should be no restrictions on weapons for any free man.

Also, a man is responsible for his actions. We should be judged by our actions, and punished for lack of insight. Our nation is our gang. Our flag is our colors. Nations are high level gangs. These niggers and spics beat their chests over a block of territory, they have no clue. Gangs should be hung for treason. Our rights our ours alone, bestowed to us by the Almighty. No mortal may take them. Rights are only given away, never taken away

Based

In fact the sex offender registry has to be one of the most egregious violations of human rights in the U.S.' history. Commit a "sex crime" (which can be as little as indecent exposure) or be falsely accused of one and you can enjoy
>public humiliation for effectively the rest of your life
>all of your details being available to anyone that wants to attack you or harass you
>instantly depersons you in almost every way
>if you actually committed the crime, increases your chances of re-offending

Now some of you retards may think "o-oh but what if it's some child rapist they deserve it"! That view completely falls apart when you realize that A. False accusations/convictions do happen and B. Why in the world would we let them out of prison in the first place if we're not to assume they're rehabilitated? I mean, they aren't because our penal system is absolute shit and does nothing but create lifelong criminals while somehow being unable to stop crime happening in its own goddamn system - but that's besides the point.

No. Second class citizens should not exist in a free society. You are with us or against us. That grey zone is bunk. IMHO we need rehab, counseling, forced labor (community service) and exile. Prison and even execution is a waste of good peoples time and energy. Non cooperative citizens should not be playing the game of society. If you can be trusted on the street, you should be trustworthy.
/personal rant

yo wtf is up with this guy's trigger finger