How would Jow Forums have handled the Pandora problem?

Blankets. With disease.

Shoot it first.

They look like blue niggers.

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Colonel Quaritch literally did nothing wrong

He failed.

OK, so sex first, then it will pick my cotton and shine my shoes.

Anyone got that Quatrich nickname screencap?

Make sure your cockpits aren't made out of glass. There's these things called cameras.

My thoughts exactly, they dominate the space and air, so why bother?

nuke it

dot it

does your mom know you're up past bedtime?

Jakes ONLY FUCKING JOB was to help negotiate a FAIR mining agreement in order to save humanity without genociding the Navi but the moment he gets some pussy he says fuck it to all of humanity. What a great message though James Cameron hope the next movies are as well thought out

Nuke from orbit, wait a few years then go mine.
Blue apes deserve genocide

Well I dunno, blue pussy is a pretty compelling argument.

Also, humanity was clearly in the wrong.

/tg/'s got you covered. We've been pissed off by this movie for years.

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Yeah you're right

Sure am glad my linage starved to death so some handicap-able Marine could get his rocks off

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Maybe you should fix your lineage's problems without taking others' shit by force?

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Why are our weapons so shit? By the time we get to really space travel we would have weapons that break thinks apart to spare atoms not fancy looking machine guns.

Manifest destiny baby, don't like getting killed? Then get out of the way.

>clearly in the wrong
The humans of the RDA where born on a world that their ancestors royally fucked up, something they are not responsible for. What little space exploration they were capable of allowed them to explore but not move people off world, a world in a perpetual energy and resource crisis doomed to extinction. Then low and behold, a miracle: a naturally occurring room temperature super conductor that is paradoxically highly magnetic. A material like that makes fusion reactors and antimatter storage child’s play. With that they could give everyone as much energy as they could ever want and fuel star ships to save the human race. It was Us vs Them. We tried the diplomatic path, to insure their needs were met. That wasn’t good enough for them.

Like I said, clearly in the wrong. Also, humanity got its ass kicked fair and square.

Hmmm except that wasn't what happened because again Jake and friends we're supposed to make a mining agreement which would have both stopped a lot of Navi deaths and again saved humanity

but yes Whi... I mean earth man bad

Know how climate change is mostly irreversible now? What if the people in a 150 years, born into a shitty world of no fault of their own, were given a resource that effectively ends their energy poverty and the difficulty of space travle?
What would you do, what would you allow, to secure that resource? What if it's availability was threatened?
It's not so black and white and the movie is a crime for ruining such a potentially good story.

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Incorrect. Humanity lost that war because the people back home didn't like dead blue people showing up on the 5 o'clock news.

Bioweapon, just like the other tree niggers the white man conquered.

>Would you race traitor your species and the entire planet?
Cameron was a visionary.

The blue cats weren't responsible for humanity's energy crisis either. You have no right to their shit.

Which is why humans tried peaceful negotiation first which one man completely threw out the window because he wanted to get laid.

The military probably has all that. The guys in the movie were a bunch of mercs hired by a mining company.

The worst part is he could've done both you know had he any interest in doing his actual job

the movie is a joke
instead of being symbolic it's literal UNOBTANIUM
>unobtanium
what a fucking joke of film making.

a beautiful early example of
>imperialism bad
>white man bad
>humans bad
>natives good
>natives chosen people
>natives better lifestyle
>natives can do no wrong
>sheer willpower can overcome blatantly superior forces, training, and technology
it is a joke. the entire movie is deus ex machina.

they just HAPPEN to have a guy who HAPPENS to be compatible with that avatar who HAPPENS to be cripple so falls in love with that body who HAPPENS to also fall in love with a very important native who HAPPENS to be interested in his artificial imperialistic tool body who HAPPENS to fuck him and teach him all this shit and he HAPPENS to buy into it and completely betray humanity without a single glimmer of failure on the horizon.
what. a. joke.

The Na'vi is highly stimulating and gave me shuddering, ball draining orgasms every time .

Just sayin'

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Nope not conducive to the narrative, bad thought, bad!

Again. It's survival. Us vs Them. Don't get more morally neutral than that.

You're right I apologize to the almighty James Cameron long may his visionary movies reign

Is this about aliens or about brown people?

The movie was a glorified tech demo to sell the rendering software. I still watch it just because I like the earth and gun porn.

exterminatus

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Orbital bombardment

And? They didn't want a mining agreement.

Climate change is not even confirmed to exist, so there's that.

If people in 150 years are born in a shitty world, they can move, or seek the necessary resources elsewhere. Or invade and accept that they are clearly in the wrong.

As Tu said: that may be so, but it is also irrelevant.

Sure. They tried getting the resources legitimately, and good for them on that. Them refusing trade doesn't give right to take it by force though. Good on the blue pussies for resisting the bullies.

Wrong. The one initiating the use of force is always morally wrong. It's understandable, but still morally wrong.

If you're starving, it doesn't give you the right to kill someone for their sandwich.

Self preservation is an intrinsic characteristic to humanity. Can't say the same for blue people. Therefore it is in our genes to live tree hippies liking us or not.

What do you mean survival isn't an intrinsic characteristic of the blue people?

Don't know their species, they think death is a release for something greater. Hell there's probably nets on cliffs to stop them from all falling off and meeting the allmother for all we know.

supress all knowledge of sapient space aliens, "misplace" science staff

poison the entire surface from high altitude, then ignite everything and start boring that sweet sweet funobtanium

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If sandwichs were the only thing you could derive nutrition from and it was the only sandwich you knew to exist, you would absolutely be in the right to kill for it if the other party could not be convinced to give it up. Especially if they neither needed nor use it!

It's funny that even as a boy I mostly enjoyed Jake's scenes where he is taming the wilderness. Like when he submits a wyvern.

Maybe it's just human nature.

They're several light years away. News of a genocide isn't going to reach earth until several years after the fact.

You say that like humanity hasn't been seduced by the same mentality for millenia. But even if I accept that as an argument, I can counter it with saying that they know in objective terms that they have an afterlife.

Maybe an eternal life within the consciousness of the planet is worth giving up technological advancement?

That's still wrong. You can always look for alternative solutions.

And I sure as fuck wouldn't want to move just because some foreigner wanted shit that was under my house.

If you read the lore you will realize the Navi are only about 1million strong across the whole planet because their goddess purges them all the time and it's an honor to be killed for the sake of the goddess.
Also it's a typical noble savage bullshit story. The only reason the blue apes win is because of bad writing.

Nope, they had what humans needed and humanity offered the courtesy of the olive branch first. They spat on it so what's there left to do? Be a defeatist like yourself or be a man?

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Blow it out your ass moralfag

Sounds pretty similar to human wars of faith, really. And again, there is objective proof that at least some of their consciousness survives physical death, so saying that they die or get purged is a bit dishonest. In fact, dying for the goddess could be seen as an act of survival, since then they would achieve eternal life.

If your playmate at the kindergarten doesn't want to share his toys, you can either accept that, or you can take the toy by force and accept that you're a bully.

Except in this case, the boy with the toy actually beat you up and you're salty about it.

Are you a discord tranny or are you just trolling

>Unobtanium is the only thing that will save humanity from extinction and the blue niggers are in the way
>It's a life or death situation
>"Y-y-yeah but that situation is unrealistic"

All you're doing is rejecting the premise. Assuming that there is no other solution, humanity is pretty justified in blue niggers genocide to save themselves.

>toys are necessary for survival
Your analogies are trash.

>And? They didn't want a mining agreement.
AH you must be getting that from the all of ZERO scenes where they actually try

Also the morality of the RDA is completely irrelevant to the point of whether or not Jake even attempted to do what the Avatar program was designed for.

Not to mention the morality of Jake himself! literally replaced his twin brother with only a single sentiment at the beginning of the movie and then despite the task of monumental importance he's been assigned proceeds to fuck around. Even after attaining a position of trust and understanding in the tribe where he could have actually negotiated something he didn't.

He didn't just fail to attain a peaceable resolution he simply didn't try forcing things to go down the way they did.

Sure they wanted to get at the big load of the big tree, but they had no plans to evict them and they were fine not doing so and just had one member of staff over there to see if they could talk them into it. It wasn't until AFTER that staffer went rouge and starting attacking their own infrastructure that they went after them.

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said that the situation is unrealistic, you retarded fuck. I told you that starvation doesn't give you the right to kill someone else for their sandwich.

>Wrong. The one initiating the use of force is always morally wrong. It's understandable, but still morally wrong.
>If you're starving, it doesn't give you the right to kill someone for their sandwich.
Nigger if the survival of humanity depended on you and your family's death then I'm going to drop you like a sack of potatoes. I'm not letting my family and all my friends die because you and your family don't want to

Gotten actual negotiators and not a bunch of fucknuts to make first contact.

Explain that we do not need to kill the tree, but simply mine underneath it for the materials we need to survive.

Show them examples of mining that would not destroy the tree. This type of mining has been around since the times of the Romans.

Should negotiations fail, we begin forced relocation of the natives. Use overwhelming force to do this. Complete air superiority and armor superiority.

Should they somehow hold out or even push back against us, we use chemical warfare. Should those chemicals not prove effective, we nuke the site from orbit.

This is too fucking based

...

Yes, we aren't shown him trying to negotiate a trade agreement with the tribe. He was learning their ways to get their trust, and by doing so he realised the futility of his mission. We have no way to know whether his observation was correct though.

We aren't shown Jake grieving, but I'm not sure whether that's an argument against his morality. I think you might be jumping to conclusions there, since we don't know how much time had passed between him finding out about his brother's death and landing on the planet. You'll have to forgive a cripple finding it exhilarating to actually be able to move again.

The scientist lady made a point about the aforementioned infrastructure being used to raze trees that were a connection to the tribe's ancestors being an intentional provocation to create a casus belli.

>In fact, dying for the goddess could be seen as an act of survival, since then they would achieve eternal life.
This is all assuming that their goddess is actually a god and not a separate sentient being who is also killing the Navi for survival. I'd say it's more likely the latter than the former so really the most moral thing would be to kill the tree regardless of the Unobtanium

>If sandwichs were the only thing you could derive nutrition from
>That's still wrong. You can always look for alternative solutions
>The only thing
>Alternative solutions
There are no alternative solutions. That's the point. It's do or die.
>What is reading comprehension 101

>starvation doesn't give you the right to kill someone else for their sandwich
Who cares about the moral high ground if you're going to be DEAD. If you want to sit there and starve because you're too nice then that's up to you but realize that is a shitty decision because you'll be DEAD. If a system of morality leads to your death then it is a bad moral system to live by.

Sure, and I'm not going to move even if you want the shit under my house. Get your rocks elsewhere.

It's impossible to know for sure, so all that we have is speculation. I do think that it's likely that the natives have attributed divinity to what is essentially just an extremely complex organism, but the fact still remains that the complex organism is capable of preserving the consciousness of individuals. Whether it is actually divine or not is irrelevant.

Hold up
>Tree is some kind of goddess that connects all sentient life on it's planet through magical psychic powers
God dammit, it's the fucking Hist trying to remove humanity from Godhead.

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I saved the rest of the conversation. It came out of some spontaneous RP on the discussion page for the film on TVTropes when it came out, back before that place went to shit.

We cannot match the strength of wolves. We cannot hear a grasshopper in flight five meters away in a jungle. We cannot walk on branches without slipping and falling. We cannot interface with animals to make them tolerate us. We do not have neural links to a planetary deity to receive instructions on how to thrive in a hostile environment.
Make no mistake, we are frail in body, but not mind or soul. We are not weak because we fight in armor. We are not cowardly because we strike our enemies from afar. We are not evil because we harness the power of destruction. It is merely equalization. We are somewhere in the middle of all the life on our planet, and every one of them has and is trying to kill us.
See this hammer? This is a tool, a weapon, and a means. With this hammer, we battled the world's greatest terrors and won. With this hammer, we built villages, towns, cities, metropolises, civilizations. With this hammer, we harnessed fire, steel, and lightning to do our bidding. We constructed machines, vehicles, and titans of iron to tame the wilderness. We fought our way into our place in the world. We did all this to forge a safer place for our children. If there is a better way, we did not receive any messages.
Do not talk to me of your 'moral integrity'. I have seen rage, jealousy, religious indignation, lust, apathy, and failure to forgive amongst you. There is nothing wrong with our nature that you do not have.
In the end? You are no better, Na'vi.

And that is your weakness. Not only are you blind and deaf to the voice of the world, you rejoice in your ignorance. You actually believe your handicap is something to be proud of, instead of something to be pitied.

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>if youre starving, it doesnt give you the right to kill someone for their sandwich

he said, right before i killed him for his sandwich. i then wrote a history book about how i was correct and his philosophy made him a little bitch, before i went home to fuck his woman (who was now mine). within a generation his name was forgotten, and the human race strengthened by having his genetic material removed.

Yes, you look for alternative solutions if someone didn't want to trade you their sandwiches. Or you accept the fact that you're a bully, like I've been saying.

Human population falling until it reaches equilibrium is an option, you know.

Spare us your pity, alien. You gush about your connection with nature, your primal wisdom, but what has it brought you?
Where are your marvels of engineering? Your voyages of discovery? Your great insight into the nature of the universe? Even at our basest, when we dressed as you do, dwelt as you do, hunted as you do, lived as you do, we did more than merely survive. We built wonders. We made great journeys. We forged epics. You have not.
You speak so proudly of the plugs dangling from your skulls, little realizing that they are but strings and you puppets. What little you have accomplished you attribute to the wisdom of your goddess, who is nothing but the voices of your dead echoing for all eternity. She moors you to the past, serving as a leash that keeps you as little better than apes, sad parodies of civilization that lack that special spark to become something more.
We have come to your world in search of resources. Whether your actions drive us back or we take what we want and move on, the outcome is the same. We will depart from your wretched planet, leaving you behind. And in a thousand years, you will not have changed from this contact with another world. You will remain in your trees, hunting your prey, communing with your goddess, until your sun burns out and your world dies.
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.

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Except the guy in this analogy didn't die, but rather kicked your ass, made you look incompetent, and the whole situation was recorded for all the world to see.

Once again, you wallow in your ignorance. You talk of your machines and monuments as great and wondrous things, when they are nothing more than lumps of sand that will soon be washed away by the tides of time. And you actually boast about such works, as if raping the earth and soiling the air and fouling the water are achievements! Your homeworld is choking itself to death as we speak, and still you dare to hold yourself as something to aspire to...
And that is how you fill your days, wallowing in ignorance and calling it civilization. Always alone in your heads, always distrustful and afraid, planning schemes and waging war to lash out at the pain in your souls. And after a scant sixty or eighty years you die, screaming in denial as you go, in dread realization that nothing about your true self will remain. You cannot even recall your own father's father's father's father, nor do you care.
Then you talk about 'insights' to one who is in tune with the world itself. Each Na'vi who ever lived, who ever will live, remains on, forever nurtured and loved as part of Eywa. When she speaks to us, it is not simply a voice inside our heads, but the collective wisdom of a million million minds, with a wisdom and insight you cannot begin to comprehend. You pray to your gods and interpret every anomaly as a response; Eywa provides for our needs in ways far beyond your myths, and if need be, the planet itself will bend to protect us all. Such is the way of the Na'vi, joined in a love and intimacy that you can never begin to approach.
So your souls cry out in loneliness, and you destroy your world — and all you touch — in response. A situation to be pitied, indeed.

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Its our destiny to rule the stars.
Refer to

Literally no in any us vs them scenario outside of weird religious sects.

Not if "we" die because "we" were incompetent with our energy.

Sins of the father.

of course you're not going to move. nobody said that there was a moral imperative for you to move and surrender your shit so that someone else can live. Most of the posts in this thread are about the moral justification in making someone move in order to live. Not that the person being moved ought to like what's being done to them. Recognize the difference.

>I'm starving and dying and if I kill this person and take his shit I will live. There is absolutely nothing else I can do to save myself so I'm going to kill this person to live
this is an understandable thought process

>someone is starving and unless I give him everything I have he's going to die so I should go do that
this does not make sense. most people would not do this

Nobody in this thread is trying to look at the situation from the viewpoint of the person being moved because nobody cares about blue niggers. We're all looking at it from the view of the one dying ie: humanity

Tides of time?! Such words from a stagnant and blinkered race? Even if our monuments are worn away by the eons, we still will have built them. Even after our home is dust, we still will survive.
Every human life spent pushes us forward, whether immeasurably or in great leaps. Our 'loneliness', our fraternal struggles only make us stronger. We remember and honor our past, but are not chained to it. While you, alien, are eternally bound to the same stretch of history, preening at your own simplicity because you cannot grow into something more. You boast that your planet protects you. I say you are coddled, pampered by an indulgent parent. Perhaps that is why your Eywa will not let you advance? Does your smothering "mother" refuse to let her children grow? Would she be lonely if you left her, and therefore grasps you tightly to her bosom, keeping you ignorant and childish?
But enough useless speculation. You are proud of your natural wisdom, so you will appreciate this simple fact - the strong survive. So come, alien, and test your strength against ours!

(cue battle sequence)

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So stop propagating sin then. Reduce the population until you're no longer forced to consume everything like a virus.

God i love this

So you're a strong proponent for slavery reparations then?

and then i came back and dropped a bomb on that guys house from orbit. then i took his sandwich.

it's okay though, i kept the avatar program up and running. since i still have the ability to create cloned bodies of this guy's people, i kept his species around as a highly advanced fuck toy to satisfy the fetishes of those willing to pay for such delights.

>pearl harbor happens
>us btfo
>a few years later, japan gets nuked
>who is winning now

>Yes, we aren't shown him trying to negotiate a trade agreement with the tribe. He was learning their ways to get their trust, and by doing so he realised the futility of his mission. We have no way to know whether his observation was correct though.
This isn't a good argument, He knew it would be a war if this failed, He knew it would be more likely the Navi would lose, and he was in the best position to actually negotiate futility or not he failed to even attempt another solution besides war.

>We aren't shown Jake grieving, but I'm not sure whether that's an argument against his morality. I think you might be jumping to conclusions there, since we don't know how much time had passed between him finding out about his brother's death and landing on the planet.
This is fair the Movie makes it seem like its immediately afterwards from Jakes perspective (not counting time in cryo)

>You'll have to forgive a cripple finding it exhilarating to actually be able to move again.
This is 100% not what i'm talking about and you know it. He wantonly dragged two species to war for next to nothing

>this is an understandable thought process
I already said that it was, speedreader. Refer to: >Wrong. The one initiating the use of force is always morally wrong. It's understandable, but still morally wrong.

>this does not make sense. most people would not do this
Most people don't understand morality.

>Nobody in this thread is trying to look at the situation from the viewpoint of the person being moved because nobody cares about blue niggers. We're all looking at it from the view of the one dying ie: humanity
Of course people in this thread are looking at the situation from the viewpoint of the person being moved.

Not at all. Quite the opposite, in fact.

You're making stuff up now.

You have it correct now. In your analogy, the Na'vi are the US.