reading this. jesus fuck the allies killed alot of POWs, i was under the impression that they didnt do that. alot of times they would capture mixed units of polish and german soldiers. they would give the poles some weapons and tell them to escort the germans to the rear. the germans usualy didnt make it back, lol. SS soldiers apparently would have their families killed by the nazis if they surrendered. they often got killed if they surrendered anyway.
also apparently de gaul threatened to withdraw his free french units from the invasion if the allies didnt reconize him as the leader of the french govt. essentially he was playing political fuckery to make himself dictator of france. what a fucking dumbass.
Not even sure what you are trying to say. Check out General Clarke's order to his army take no prisoners.
Leo Cook
Also - who exactly were NOT playing a political game? Eisenhower, Churchill, Montgomery - they were all bucking for getting or keeping political positions come Victory Day. De Gaulle was just one of the players.
Christopher Morales
Yep, war sucks
> they would give the poles some weapons and tell them to escort the germans to the rear "Oh those poor Nazis" - I wonder why you picked out this one particular highlight from a book which is otherwise generally about planning, logistics and the sheer scale of the attack.
> SS soldiers apparently would have their families killed by the nazis "Oh those poor Nazis" - SS soldiers were all volunteers, they were Nazis. The Nazi state was an Ouroborous of fuckery. Even if you were the perfectly loyal good little Nazi you could end up with your world destroyed semi-arbitrarily. The lesson? Stay the fuck away from authoritarian Govt. and "strong" leaders telling you they'll solve all your problems. (protip: It'll usually end with them and their buddies living in luxury while everyone else is sent down the mines or to the front) Even the Wehrmacht weren't as "clean" as some would have you believe.
> political fuckery "Everyone was being a dick, they were all as bad as the Nazis!" Well duh, same as Stalin ordering the red army to halt before Warsaw so the pro-democrat Polish resistance would get wiped out. Everyone was jockeying for better positioning after the war, but the Nazis still started it and prosecuted it with extreme prejudice on many otherwise peaceful peoples.
Is this anything but a thinly veiled stormfaggot thread, because it sure sounds like one.
Elijah Cox
SS soldiers were all volunteers? Really now? I guess the third of all SS ranks that were conscripts don't count then?
Angel Gray
>Doesn't understand the difference between SS and Waffen-SS
Elijah Scott
Everything the Western "good guys" accused the Russians of doing they did it themselves, period.
All you have to do is to compare the social-culture-demographic policies of the GDR and "free" Western Germany to realize who the real bastards were.
Hudson Torres
You can't convince me it's not super gay and cowardly to execute POWs, I don't care who they are.
Cooper Smith
>You can't convince me it's not super gay and cowardly to execute POWs, I don't care who they are.
Not as super Gay as killing everyone in Poland who was a judge, doctor, nurse, lawyer, student . Please don't start with the lies, I've seen the pictures of the people they murdered hung on walls of family homes in Poland. The Nazis deserved everything they got and more.
Evan Collins
The allies did their own fair share of horrible shit as well. Read up on the concentration camps set up by the americans to imprison the japanese.
The most famous event in WW2, the nuclear bombs, would be considered war crimes under modern Geneva because they were targetting civilian cities.
Adrian Flores
So would it have been ok to execute American POWs because of lynching, segregation, and the war crimes they had committed in WW2 and before?
Alexander Cox
>Read up on the concentration camps set up by the americans to imprison the japanese. Nobody died in them. The Nisei were so law-abiding the whole thing became an embarrassment and they were let out well before the war was over.
>they were targetting civilian cities. So was everyone else, starting with the Japs in the 30's in China. Sauce for the gander.
Jason Green
They did it much more in the Italian theater. Bradley sanctioned the killing of snipers. Patton told his men to be suspicious of "white-flag ruses".
>Operation HUSKY had exacted a particularly grievous toll from the 180th Infantry Regiment, the pride of Oklahoma and one of three National Guard infantry regiments in the 45th Division. During the 45th’s brief interlude in Oran, en route from Norfolk to Sicily, Patton had lavished his attention on the unit, urging officers to “kill devastatingly,” to be wary of white-flag ruses, and, if enemy soldiers surrendered only when nearly overrun, to “kill the sons of bitches.” The 45th should be known as the “Killer Division,” Patton told them, because “killers are immortal.” books.google.com/books?id=AxX6oQSrPAgC&pg=PA116&lpg=PA116
>the nuclear bombs, would be considered war crimes under modern Geneva because they were targetting civilian cities They were considered precision weapons at the time, and a humanitarian alternative compared to the fire bombings. Millions evacuated beforehand because leaflets were dropped.
Jaxon Rodriguez
That's arguable; both cities were chock-full of valid military targets, and each bomb was aimed at a target.
You might as well make the claim that the Soviets nuking Andrews would have been a war crime, because there was a city all around it.
Julian Thompson
i dont think anyone admits the allies were totally clean, and they could be as nasty as anyone else on the planet when the time came
but it would be massively inaccurate to put them even close in scale or occurrence to the nazis or the japanese when it came to war crimes the western allies were also the only ones to follow the geneva convention as often as they could, at least as an institution even if individuals did ignore it, as opposed to the axis who encouraged ruthless behaviour from their men
Benjamin Diaz
Lots of people died.on the internment camps. They weren't exterminated. That's the difference. Leave it to Phil to be an ignorant fucking cunt every chance he gets.
Josiah Moore
Nuclear weapons were far better than Operation Downfall, which was the operation to invade the main Japanese islands. With an expected 1.7-4 million casualties, 400,000-800,000 dead on the american side and up to 10 million casualties on the Japanese side, most of those being Civilians who get caught up in some way or another. This would've also ended up in Japan being split in half by the soviets like Germany.
So many purple hearts were manufactured in anticipation of this operation, that they made 500,000 of them and put them in stock, this stock lasted up until the Gulf War where they had 120,000 of them and so many that they could literally have units keep them on hand to give out immediately.
Nathaniel White
Maybe if you once serve and wear a uniform, doesn't even matter which countries military, you would think totally different. I really hate the edgy people here like you as former soldier, who think execute POW is fun and cool. Just kys mate
Evan Anderson
You need to fuck off and learn something if you think what happened in Poland has anything to do with your muh served psycho bullshit
Lincoln Butler
And I'm pretty sure I've seen more combat than you, you pathetic larping fuck up
Isaiah King
Antony Beevor is a populist historian, not very serious. He is a disciple of John Keegan who himself was a revisionist associated with the Waffen-SS post war help groups.
Kayden Cooper
>Antony Beevor is a populist historian, not very serious. He is a disciple of John Keegan who himself was a revisionist associated with the Waffen-SS post war help groups.
Something tells me you're a russian who has been fed this rubbish because Russia didn't his work on Stalingrad.
Beevor used the NKVD's own records to expose how many Russians actually joined with the Germans to fight against the soviets. Plus it's not much of a workers paradise if people are resorting to mass cannibalism.
Mason Wright
We're talking about Antony claiming the western allies killed tons of POWs. Are you so indoctrinated that you just automatically think everyone is a Russian if they contradict victimization of Nazis, even when we are talking about the western front? Brain dead moron.
Oliver Wright
You started talking about the character of the author in an ad hominem attack. if you cant deal with that being addressed then you're playing the wrong game.
The fact that you're even trying to portray Beevor or Keegan as revisionists and a nazi sympathisers says a lot about what information you've been told to find acceptable.
There's a reason the russians won't let him back in their state archives, the truth hurts.
Gabriel Lewis
I wasn't addressed, it was deflected. Which is why you wanna talk about Russians, the oldest and dumbest tactic here tripfag.
Charles Rodriguez
I notice that you're failing to / unable to backup your original claim.
My Grandpa was there. He told me they stopped taking prisoners after the malmedy massacre especially of they were SS. Many German prisoners were "shot trying to escape"
Anthony Rogers
>The most famous event in WW2, the nuclear bombs, would be considered war crimes under modern Geneva because they were targetting civilian cities. Wrong. Look up proportionality.
Elijah Cruz
>jesus fuck the allies killed alot of POWs, i was under the impression that they didnt do that Winners write the history. If we could only see un-skewed historical records, because the history of the losers was almost always erased/altered to make the winners look more favorable.
Isaiah Harris
Doesn't understand Waffen-SS were almost all conscripts in 1944
Alexander Lee
To my understanding it was warcrime even in ww2 times.
Hudson Clark
Geopolitics and strategy my friend, they were ordered to not take POWs during D-Day so they could continue the advance quickly.
Charles Taylor
pretty nice thread you all seem like cool guys, anyone want a cigarrette
Joseph Ortiz
This book made me not hate Patton. He was an asshole but the kind of asshole who could be pointed in a direction and told to do something and it would get done. You just had to consider and work to mitigate the damage it would do your allies interacting with him on either of his flanks and above him. That is still a notable and useful individual.
More people left the internment camps then were entered.
Colton Stewart
It’s not super gay when the people you are executing have already set a precedent of killing, torturing actually of POWs. Fanatics have pretended to surrender and then kill any allied troop fooled by them when they get close, even medics who try to tend to their wounds.
Jaxon Butler
You implied Beevor's books push a Nazi sympathetic agenda, throwing out the word populist in one way then in the next sentence using it in a way that has connotations. Would be neat if you had some examples of how his books pushed a Nazi sympathetic agenda instead of using bitch mode implications.
Samuel Parker
US forces in WW2 weren't too keen on taking prisoners, period. In the Pacific American troops had to be bribed with sweets to take prisoners at all, because the Intelligence units were unable to get intel from the dead.
Kayden Cox
Nazis liked him too. He hired a lot of them back into their high ranking jobs while he was in the occupation force in Germany. Patton had a greater dislike for commies and was arguing heatedly for invading Russia next.
Yeah, fuck off mate. The Nazis did a lot more, a lot earlier and it was well documented, not just some "oh ho ho those units didn't tend to make it back" hearsay from some rotoscope appreciation forum.
Gabriel Williams
War fucking sucks, especially world wars. Guess it just shows when you start shit you get hit
Eli Cruz
OP here, im not saying the krauts didnt deserve to be killed, they did, im just saying that i was unaware of how widespread it was. and i have to admit that makes a bit uneasy even if i can understand the necessity of it during the airborne operations for example. one account was pretty funny, americans came up to a bunker and heard a single shot and laughing. then a bunch of poles came out and surrendered. they had killed the german commander. awesome.
that bomber run to break out of the bocage was an absolute clusterfuck tho, jesus christ. military people are fucking retarded.
anyway, im sorry youre so mad, user, you should calm down and stop trying to read so deep into peoples intentions. you are not a psychic. dont try to act like one.
People forget wars aren't moral things, the government sending people who aren't even old enough to buy booze out with a shitload of guns into a completely overwhelming environment isn't going to be pretty, no matter how moral the reason to send them over was.
Luke Evans
>All were killed when "Waddy's Wagon" was shot down attempting to guide a crippled B-29 back to safety during a mission against the Nakajima aircraft factory in Musashino, Japan on January 9, 1945.
>All you have to do is to compare the social-culture-demographic policies of the GDR and "free" Western Germany to realize who the real bastards were. Well being as how the GDR built a fucking wall to keep their people in....Yeah it's pretty easy.
Christopher Bennett
The people who drafted the last list of war crimes during the early interwar period weren’t even aware that an atom bomb was possible, let alone making the rules if such a device were used
Jackson Garcia
>So many purple hearts were manufactured in anticipation of this operation, that they made 500,000 of them and put them in stock, this stock lasted up until the Gulf War where they had 120,000 of them and so many that they could literally have units keep them on hand to give out immediately. This fact will always blow my mind. The first time I read it, I had to look up whether it was true or not because it’s so unbelievable
