Are SMGs really obsolete, even on short ranges?
>won't go through body armor
Yes, but your regular 223 from standard barrel also wouldn't go easily through III and IV level plates which are geting more and more common these days
Are SMGs really obsolete, even on short ranges?
>won't go through body armor
Yes, but your regular 223 from standard barrel also wouldn't go easily through III and IV level plates which are geting more and more common these days
No, because SMGs can be made really compact in a way that carbines really can't, so they can still fill a niche.
SMG and PDW are good for soldiers that aren't meant to use their firearms unless things are really bad. Vehicle crews etc. They aren't what you would equip infantry with.
it depends on if you classify PDW's as a different animal or not
the p90 is pretty saucy when it comes to shitting body armor.
I'd argue that it's useful for police, specifically due to lack of penetration. You run the risk of encountering someone with armor, sure, but a burst of 9mm at 900 rpm at center of mass will still disable a target enough to deal with it, while lowering the risk of over penetrating the wall and hitting the neighbor of the guy of the you're shooting at.
pistol rounds generally overpenetrate more than 5.56
small rounds going fast tend to break up when hitting things, whereas big slow rounds don't
This can depend on your load selection.
>your regular 223 from standard barrel also wouldn't go easily through III and IV level plates
Lol nigga what? You do realize plates are only rated to whistand a certain number of shots before breaking and becoming useless? You could shoot 100 rounds of 9mm into someone's chest and soft armor will stop everything, however no armor can whistand more than a dozen shot of .223
Exactly this - the B&T MP9 is a valuable submachine gun. Pic related is a lineup of bad SBRs.
There is only 1 good 5.56 load. 55gr is the way to go.
>, however no armor can whistand more than a dozen shot of .223
and the guy will just stand here and wait to get shot enough times
Mk.262 Mod 1, friendo.
>a-armor penetration
you're protected from one (1) square center mass impact
Once you're writhing around breathless on the ground it doesn't matter if you're wearing level IV and the other guy only brought 9mm, you're fuckin done kid
>>this is bait
that doesn't happen with hard armor elmer
You don’t know what you’re talking about, stop
SMG's are good as a cheap alternative to rifles in CQB environments. guns like the CZ scorpion and Grand power Stribog are good examples.
Really wish they'd release a civilian version in a more common caliber. I'd guess the closest thing would be .17 HMR although it's a rimmed cartridge.
The MP9 is in 9mm Luger, dude
Literally retarded
youtube.com
This. Even with just doing security on a boat, a SMG would be pretty nice for that tight as fuck spaces
Does 17 hmr have any penetration ability? Too light weight prob, yeh?
>Once you're writhing around breathless on the ground it doesn't matter if you're wearing level IV and the other guy only brought 9mm, you're fuckin done kid
every day another one of you retards posts this fudd lore bullshit again
It has some, but it's a very, very light bullet.
It's a very small fast projectile.
It's the closest thing to the 4.3x30mm I can think of in common Amerimutt calibers.
summerfagteen/10
And SMGs will be stopped by soft armor, which is lighter and can cover far more than plates.
Nothing goes through level IV plate. Not 308, not 30-06. Even the AP rounds.
Jesus only an out of spec 338 Lapua round barely pulls it off.
Yeah, but any rifle round can penetrate level 3A which is a concern if you need to shoot Captain Tyrese and his merry band of Ebay armor bandits
I'm glad that you think your ar will beat level 4 plates, stupid people like you deserve death
Is there anything out there on the civvie market in 9mm that can penetrate 3a? That 39b shit I heard can. But it's hard to get?
Just wondering for research, I Jow Forums it up in tarkov with a vityaz and do okay.
But that's wrong, you fucking retard
I think he thought it was an MP7? If no, I'm not sure what he was smoking.
Mk318 mod 0 fren
They absolutely are not.
you fire an AR/AK in a hallway vs any pistol caliber carbine without hearing protection and tell me what is better?
Probably some of the solid copper stuff, but I'm not entirely sure of if it'll do that with 9mm.
Fuck its bait isnt it?
Your such a Poz on society
You are fucking retarded if you think firing a pistol caliber in a hallway isn't going to deafen you.
9mm is 4decibels louder than 223.
Kill yourself, summerposter.
I saw one of these for soft armor against shotguns but I can't find it for the life of me
There is ammo that penetrate armor for most smgs. Also, if you go the pdw route, the P90 fires 5.7 so you can penetrate some armor with the standard rounds.
There is no ammo that will allow SMGs to penetrate anything better than IIIA.
Sure, but what ammo for rifles penetrates armor past 3a? Assume people are not referring to 4 — I don't even know what would besides .50.
Literally everything it isn't rated for.
there's plenty of rifle calibers more powerful than 7.62×51, retard
This
>wont penetrate
just shoot them in the shoulders, legs, and arms. no one's going to keep fighting after their kneecaps get blown off
also, im not above shooting someone's dick off
SMGs are only really useful in bottlenecked cartridges, because armor exists. However, in bottlenecked cartidges (5.7, 22 tcm), a compact gun can beat a proper rifle in certain situations.
.300 winmag/.338 Lapua service rifles when?
3A isn't the same as 3, dumbass. AR500 steel plate armor will stop any pistol round, and also will stop 7.62x39 and 7.62x51. Velocity beats armor, and 5.56 excels at armor penetration.
Meanwhile you're being shot center of mass. The thing people train to do. And dying, because the other guy didn't have to fuck around, was able to operate on muscle memory, and shot first.
Electronic earpro.
>without hearing protection
But why?
300 blackout or 338 whisper with tungsten cored projectiles might, especially if it’s. Low weight one going really fast.
The only relevant smg
Tungsten ammo will do it, but then
>tungsten
>5.7x28
>4.6x30
>won't go through body armor
Hot loaded combat level pistol calibers will go almost any body armor at 0-25 meters if equipped with 45deg sharp tipped tungsten carbide cobalt composite penetrator core. A hot loaded 9mm para from 8 inch barrel does 500+ m/s with tungsten core, goes through 10mm of SSAB Armox 500
>early 90's ballistic protective steel grade >nowadays available for civilian market as AR500
That shit is expensive as fuck, mind.
>muh body armor
They have created multiple SMGs/PDWs meant to counter body armor. And you can still hose someone down and hit their arms, legs, and pelvis.
noguns retard. unpost your shitty memelore
No, Hell be flat on his ass with a broken sternum about to be shot in someplace soft.
None of you faggots can even talk about bullet penetration without trying my PISSIN HOT HAND LOADS
Yes they are.
Making those cores and installing them in a bullet yourself won't make the cost go down either.
You need to invest in a precision guided lathe at first and then in diamond cutting tools to machine the tip and the tail.
On top of that you need to learn how to machine cores within 0.05 grams tolerance to make them accurate.
Funny enough (really), it doesn't matter if you make cores weighing something specific like 4 grams of 6 grams. That 0.05 gram deviation is far more important regarding your reloading, to make your AP rounds accurate.
:DDD you are such a summerfag, atf.
These rounds are not illegal in my country. Welcome.
nammo.com
Sounds like it'd be easier to look at more conventional AP bullets in something like .357 Magnum or .357 Sig
Are they? I didn't think soft armor stopped pistol rounds with the added velocity of a longer barrel, I thought it was just out of handguns.
Well, kind of. Depends on the distance to your target.
10 meters or less, then embed pic related in your rounds and yeah, chances are you'll be the one to walk away from the ordeal.
Alibaba sells these and various other types of TC spikes. I've bought stuff from them and so far I've got a real deal.
You still need to know how to machine things precisely. Bullets or sabots.
Tight spaces, that’s about it. Tank crews, helicopter pilots, artillery, etc.
Also good for suppressing
post a single gun you own
No, because you might start crying :DDD
Which SMG should I buy? I had toughts about that sexy scorpion evo3.
Out of what, which load? Fucking fake experts I swear
you do realize just because someone has body armor doesnt mean theyre an unstoppable juggernaut with bullets bouncing off of them?
>pistol rounds generally overpenetrate more than 5.56
literally the most retarded thing I've ever read
Hence why most nations police and military boarding teams use SMGs amongst shirt assault Rifles.
There's *some* truth to that statement, but there's some ifs to it.
Yes they are. If you want a 5.56 rifle that is as compact as an PCC, you’re going to need an SBR. The SBR will have a significant larger muzzle flash, more violent muzzle blast and louder detonation than the PCC. The SBR will probably be a tad more difficult to shoot in rapid fire, because of greater recoil and the blast obscuring the shooter’s vision.
7.62x25
Liberty civil defense
>closest thing
How is 5.7x28 not closer?
Bullpups render your argument mostly invalid.
The trick is finding a decent bullpup.
About the most compact an intermediate cartridge bullpup can be is something like the MagPul PDW, which never materialized, and was still longer than an MP9 with its stock extended, never mind the large amount of noise and flash a gun like that produces in comparison.
If being used in enclosed spaces and only relatively short ranges, then all of them are "decent". There is no need for a good trigger in those use cases so all of them qualify. If 30 rounds isn't enough (and you start talking about reloads) then there's too few people in the breaching team.
>cz
>cz scorpion
The noise and flash is no different than the 10.3" guns the .mil uses with great success. Arguing for a gun that doesn't exist but why would you trade down from an armor defeating cartridge a handgun cal for a few inches.
Is it true that rounds will break bones under plates? I have only seen evidence to the contrary, like that video of the guy shooting himself with rounds up to 308 and barely even being knocked off balance
Just get a machine pistol.
Thats a machine pistol
Wrong. Look up the tkb 22pm by Russian Korobov
??
How is that wrong, retard
>AR-15
>$500
>Scorpion
>$700
maybe a poorfag AR
>poorfag ar
>still cheaper than the poorfag smg
>vastly superior ballistic performance
I fail to see how the scorpion is a cheap substitute.
Except it will fall apart/break before a good SMG ever will. PSA and S&W fags love to pretend their gun isn't more than a plinker.
Old skorpion is best skorpion
You are not even a person.
>proposes poorfag pcc as a "cheap alternative" to a real rifle
>admits that it is neither, but maybe other guns have problems so the goalposts should be over there instead
>scorpion
>a good SMG
?
You aren't because you are poor.
I'm saying that SMG's are good cheap alternatives to actual guns, not shitty poorfag blasters.
Its OKay. Pretty poor tier.