What's wrong with making the AK a universal rifle?

>Pride
pretty much.
and because of that sin, more and more Americans will die because AR-15 is a massive piece of shit.

Attached: 1544350674547.png (1491x1518, 144K)

When you need to hit the broadside of a barn at 20 yards, you buy AK. When you need something for men who want to actually hit their targets, you buy AR.

For the USA? We have so much production inertia in the AR15 that it would be retarded to abandon.

For other nations? It depends, the AR is incredibly cheap to buy in bulk, so is the AK, the AR offers more streamlined and reliable mounting of modern attachments like optics, lights, lasers, etc... at a lower weight than the AK, as do several other weapons designs.
If you have a national inertia behind AK manufacturing it's a great rifle in its own right and there certainly isn't any reason to switch, modern 5.45x39 variants are capable and rugged firearms that are at home on a modern battlefield, although they're bulkier and heavier than some competitors.

The m4 is not a fucking machine gun these troops used it like one. This is the whole g36 thing all over. If you fire a carbine in full auto for too long it doesn't work.

>eurofaggot
>knowing anything about weapons
okay have fun touring the board now

oh wait, but look
they're modifying their m4s to be better, not buying aks, almost like the M4 is a superior platform merely in need of some tune ups

>dat damage control
kek'd fucking hard

M4 JAMS
M4 is UNREALIABLE
M4 is a PIECE OF SHIT

That's what Army's saying.

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Greatly depends on the specific model and the upkeep requirements. For example the average M4 in US army has accuracy far less than some decent civilian AR15s. So imagine how it is in some countries where they would have bought AKs instead if they weren't good friends with US.
Then there are those fingoloids plinging chest sized plates from 800yards because their guns can. Just recently they and the vatniks did some ergonomic and optic mounting upgrades, though I haven't heard how practical those ended up being and the guns are still heavy.

Soldiers are fucking retarded faggots. Especially with firearms.

>posting task and purpose
>as a serious argument
holy shit, this is how I know you're a retarded nogunz slavaboo

>dat cope

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Most of those problems are down to poor maintenance and shitty magazines.

Probably because the AK is trash in most ways compared to the AR. Trash ergos. Trash modularity. Trash recoil control. Trash optics. All for the myth of rugged reliability and simplicity

Cry mutts cry and not be white like Europe.

i don't see an issue with this, most americans cower when a bullet goes by and they just call air support

>2008
And being Colts. FNs dont act up.

why not just buy what you think looks cooler? a good AK will be just about as accurate as a good AR at any given distance, just dont buy American garbage

>says the guy who's most likely not to own one
lol, nothing the guy youre replying to said is wrong

>please gibs more money to buy new shit

>a good AK will be just about as accurate as a good AR
it will be accurate enough for most task but a good AR is a very accurate weapon and much more likely to beat an AK in that merit. Some are varmint hunting grades accurate even with chrome lined bores

It's about as fine as any other rifle in its class as long as you don't rely on the crappy iron sights it comes with.

Because there's no such thing as a universal rifle. One-size-fits-all never works.
Each of my aks has it's own usefulness's, whether based on stock styles, barrel lengths, weights, cartridge chambering, and other features like an RPK bi-pod. Some make better fighting rifles, some make better hunting guns, some make better harder hitters, some make better toys.
And that doesn't even begin to take into account personal preference and tastes. For me, my ideal rifle is a vz58 or basic modernized ak like a slr with the folding stock and good muzzle brake.
But if there was a universal rifle, some kind of ak or ar would probably be it. Probably an AR in any western nation even though I don't enjoy them all that much compared to any ak.
You obviously haven't, because it's not that fucking hard even at 400 so long as you can see your target. The most minimal practice will get you hitting it fairly regular from a sitting position.
There's nothing wrong with ak irons. There's better out there, but they're not a 10th as bad as they're made out to be... so long as you actually sight them in which I suspect many do a half-ass job of.

Yeah, with an SBR nonetheless. Cheap red dot sight onba dustcover rail, of all things. 10 shots on target with about 1 foot of spread. They're plenty accurate for what they do

youtu.be/qFgyQuTVxpU

FPBP but also cost. Tooling up for AK manufacture and development is a real pain in the ass when you don't have Russian support, as a bunch of American companies have found out. I doubt switching from M4s to AKs would actually make any sort of significant difference in the long run but AKs are generally more resilient to abuse and neglect. AR type rifles have their own upsides but I would reserve those for oper8r types who will actually take care of their weapon and can leverage its advantages better.

>ergonomic disaster
i prefer ak ergos. the charging handle placement on ar's drives me nuts.

the sights are shit and it heats up in combat even worse than an AR

3/10 bait. I replied

Fuck off mutt

Watch a mud test, or any torture test while you're at it dumbass

it means there are less holes in the receiver during operation.
this means less dust flying in and jamming shit.
the earlier suomi smg had a similar charging handle placement

accuracy

>accuracy
it's more accurate that most other guns.

youtube.com/watch?v=b9P5SSWpsYE

watch LAV break it down: youtube.com/watch?v=QABoEzyBm9w

If Winnie the Pooh shows up on your screen, does your computer shutsdown or does the police kick in your door?

Attached: poohbear.jpg (400x550, 46K)

neither. I just laugh at you dying of type 2 beetus at the age of 45 while living in abject poverty.

>cornered Jow Forums nigger resorts to screeching mutt in the face of being a no-guns on Jow Forums

Attached: yeet.png (493x276, 33K)

ITS LIKE 7 FUCKING POUNDS EMPTY

Do you do that as you munch on your chicken fried in poo oil while being eating by an escalator as your economy gets ass raped by sanctions

where's the army buying their M4's from? a lot behind the chinese restaurant? there are basic bitch civilian uppers / barrels that when put on FA lowers have sustained something like 800 - 1200 before failure. it's a fuckin' disgrace when you give a guy some kit and it can't even chew through the rounds you give him on his person during a fire fight.

twinkie test

I mean, how run down and passed around were those colts at that point?
The FN’s are still relatively new.

Because AKs are pretty shit compared to modern rifles.

>less reliable
>inferior ergonomics, attempts to rectify this often make the guns even more exposed to the elements and therefore even more unreliable
>no bolt hold open
>optics mounting is a disaster compared to every other modern service rifle (hurdur just use a mount and add even more weight and height over bore and only have a small mounting surface rather than a continuous flat top rail- it's shit, get over it)
>more reciprocating mass than an AR
>shit-tier iron sights

I love to shoot them, but they are undoubtedly inferior. They a product of the 40s and nigger rigged solutions to keep them relevant only do so much.

I like the AK pattern more than the AR pattern. However, I like that I can basically turn an AR into an AK if I want. Maybe it still looks like an AR. But an "ARAK", is a bad ass gun and I want one.

Basically it comes down to

>AR
>Slightly better accuracy
>More furniture

Or

>AK
>No problems, ever.
>Looks awesome no matter what.

Shut the fuck up nogunz.

I have never had issues with my Saiga. I have had a lot of issues with my AR and the ARs I have been issued for work and for training.

I like AKs more for their reliability. That is a fact that any AK pattern rifle is more reliable. And yes. I like the ergonomics more. It's a personal preference in that regard.

>That is a fact that any AK pattern rifle is more reliable
ding dong you are wrong
>I have had a lot of issues with my AR and the ARs I have been issued for work and for training.
Tell your airsoft crew's armorer to fix his shit

>The AK can be improved a lot more but is always stopped by the "No. Rifle is fine" cringe crowed that barely know their own rifles.
Not really. You're like, 10 years out of date. Tacticool AKs are cool now. They're still crap, you ape an AR with your AK and you just get an even heavier AK. It doesn't really gain much, except now you can slap a slav PEQ knockoff on it. And it'll weigh about 10 lbs when you're done. It still won't change the fact that reloads are faster on an AR, it won't change the fact that it's inherently less accurate, it won't fix the fact that there's a giant gaping hole in the receiver to let crap in to the action. But you can have an adjustable length of pull and a sub-optimal optics setup.

Unless you mean actual functional changes to the rifle action, in which case the "HET rifle is fine!" crowd don't have any input to what Izhmash is doing, so no, that is not the case.

But look at Russia. They slap tacticool shit allover their AKs nowadays.
>There is no "Manufactured" USDM
There are in fact multiple. PSA makes them, Century has multiple lines of 100% USA made AKs.

(OP)
There is no true good quality AK much like how there is no good quality USGI STANAG magazines.

In over 70 years The AK was only improved by the necessity of the western development of small arms. Ironically the western free market prefers the stock AK for all the memes, and not even the current or newer AK models but some fable that they just call "AK-47". The AK can be improved a lot more but is always stopped by the "No. Rifle is fine" cringe crowed that barely know their own rifles. There is no "manufactured" USDM AK, only an assembled one in some warehouse that tramp stamps the receiver afterwords for a quick buck.

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>ding dong wrong

Prove it.

>Fix his shit

A 20 year old AR that has been used to do gardening is bound to have issues.

First off, I love both guns. They are both good but in different ways and at different things.
>ARs are unreliable
The issues causing malfunctions in Vietnam were addressed.
>AKs are heavy
They dont have to be, a polymer ak74 is actually pretty light.
>AKs are unreliable
Now, that has to be bait.
>AKs are ergonomically bad
Mostly up to preference.
>7.62 x 39 is a shit caliber
Theres AKs in 556, 5.45 and more.
>poor accuracy
Disproven since long ago, a good AK is better than a bad AR and vice versa.
>More options for customization of the AR because of the civilian market.
Actually a good point, never thought about that user.

Look at how the AK12 was modified from a normal AK. That's all just to be on par with a modern m4.
Normal AKs: lack the ability to mount a variety of optics with ease and still be field strip capable, have a poor sight radius, shitty U-notch sight, non-ergonomic safety and charging handle placement, inability to accurize because no free float, pressed in barrels, inabilit to lighten with polymer receiver, and way over gassed.

An AKM is the bare minimum for combat capable modern rifle.

The AK isn't even that bad. Why is this fuddlore still taken as fact.

>Prove it.
youtube.com/watch?v=YAneTFiz5WU
youtube.com/watch?v=DX73uXs3xGU
>Disproven since long ago, a good AK is better than a bad AR and vice versa.
The problem being a "good AK" is over a thousand nowadays. I can build a way better AR for that. A WASR is on par with a PSA. Neither are bad guns. But the PSA costs $300, the WASR is over $600. I don't want to be too negative though. Almost any AK is suitably accurate, but if you put the same money to building an AR, you will have a more accurate gun without any doubt.
>They dont have to be, a polymer ak74 is actually pretty light.
And lacks a lot of features of an AR. If you want to make an AK do everything an AR does, first off you can't, but when you try, it will weigh a lot.
>customization
I would say the AK is actually very customizable nowadays. However it can be somewhat expensive and heavy to get it the same basic functionality as a quad rail AR.
>The AK isn't even that bad. Why is this fuddlore still taken as fact.
Many reasons.
>fudds are retarded
>Short stocks and potentially difficult to use sights mean bad groups for people who don't shoot AKs regularly
>movies
>misinterpreted soviet doctrine labelling the AK as a submachinegun
>the style of Soviet aiming itself, where soldiers were simply trained to aim for the belt-line and they'd be on target at all distances probably rubbed some marksmen the wrong way compared to American center mass aiming

The AR is not high-maintenance. Do you have to take care of it more than AKs? Yes. Is it something standard infantry in a volunteer army should be able to do? Yes.

Is this nigger serious? Why is "ergos" always brought up? It seems a bit subjective. Less reliable? Get the fuck out of here with that nonsense. Shitty mounting? Nigger have you ever heard of ultimak or RS? Better yet, get a Soviet Bloc optic. All that shit about reciprocating mass means what exactly?

The AK is a tried and tested weapon that has been present in every combat zone since it's inception. It's 1940s tech but look at the M2, still relevant and in use because there isn't anything better.

I thought Jow Forums, hell the entire US firearms community put this fucking 1960s fuddlore to bed years ago. Are we seriously doing this again.

It's called low IQ recruitment and corrupt acquisition processes.

>Do you have to take care of it more than AKs?
Not really.
youtube.com/watch?v=ODQAE2icsvs
youtube.com/watch?v=otSWDrp9ebk
youtube.com/watch?v=z0KA06DYMw
So far he's up to over 4,000 rounds fired without lube or cleaning at all. Safe to say the AR does not require much maintenance. There is also someone who did the same and simply kept going while squirting in lube every once in a while. It went over 10,000 rounds.
>Why is "ergos" always brought up? It seems a bit subjective.
You'd know if you ever had to wear a winter coat one day, and a normal one the next, or sometimes use a plate carrier and sometimes not. Basically, if you ever actually HAD to use a rifle. Adjustable stocks are kinda a very big deal and there's a reason even the Russians like slapping on AR buffer tubes.
>Less reliable? Get the fuck out of here with that nonsense.
I'm sorry you just know about guns from movies and videogames.
>Shitty mounting? Nigger have you ever heard of ultimak or RS?
Yes, I have. Ultimak is fine for red dots, pretty obviously worthless for anything else. RS regulate is good but increases height over bore some, and adds in even more weight. Neither option is as good as a straight flat top rail on an AR15. They work. That doesn't mean they are as good.
>Better yet, get a Soviet Bloc optic
HAHAHAHAHA NO. They are universally crap compared to western counterparts.
>All that shit about reciprocating mass means what exactly?
More recoil nogunz.
>The AK is a tried and tested weapon that has been present in every combat zone since it's inception
Yeah, no one ever said it didn't work. There are still Mosins and Enfields being used all across the globe. I'd still be pretty pissed if I was expected to actually fight with one.
>It's 1940s tech but look at the M2, still relevant and in use because there isn't anything better.
Issue being there are things better than the AK

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Yikes. This is some CoD kitty level shit. Summer is real.

>AR
Concentric bores, gtg for suppressors
Better mounting for cool ass shit
>AK
Non concentric barrels
90% of irons are crooked
Turns into a grenade after high round counts (headspace)

A good AR is better than a good AK.

>I mean, how run down and passed around were those colts at that point?
Probably brand fucking new lmao

We just gonna ignore China getting BTFO in Vietnam right after the US left???

>Turns into a grenade after high round counts
If you buy a Century shit, sure. Otherwise this will not happen. You can't afford to shoot the gun enough for it to happen.

>Not really
Wow, I was just pointing out that the AR is still a relatively no fuss platform. Didn't know it could be THAT low-maintenance. If anything this demonstrates that calling the operating system flawed is moronic.

>If anything this demonstrates that calling the operating system flawed is moronic.
Exactly. The gun can literally be fired until it exceeds the bolt's lifespan without cleaning, just spraying lube into the carbon caked mess you've made. There is a lot of fuddlore in general surrounding cleaning. A lot of our ideas surrounding the necessity of cleaning guns come from the days when corrosive shit was in everything.

Now I'm not sure I'll say it's a good idea to go 5,000 rounds without cleaning or lube of any kind, it wouldn't kill you to clean the thing every thousand. But it demonstrates that it's really a LOT less crucial than most people think.

>1960s fuddlore
cope harder nigger.

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Good job on outing yourself nogunz.

>"There were fifty-four Marines left in Golf, and as Weise saddled up with them he noted that, with the exception of grenadiers and machine gunners, almost all were carrying AK-47s. Weise saw only one M16; it was carried by Captain Vargas. The only other functioning M16 was carried by Weise himself. Nevertheless, Weise later wrote that this undermanned, badly equipped company went into the assault as “a viable, spirited fighting outfit despite its two-day ordeal.”

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Ok. Let's see him fire both guns in a dusty/sandy/swampy environment using cover that may be a sandy trench, a waterlogged ditch, or something like that. The AR jams due to accumulated debris while firing or reloading. Some ARs ARE better than others at not jamming. Some are god tier. But I can still by a Saiga or an AK clone for about half the price.

Go dip your AR mag in mud. Load it. Make a video of you firing it. Do it.

americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/9/7/filthy-firearm-ar-accuracy-testing-at-10-000-rounds/
Another interesting thing as that cleaning barrels does not appear strictly necessary. Here's a BCM still capable of shooting sub-MOA after 10,000 rounds, no cleaning of the barrel.
You spend a lot of time scouring the internet for dubious sources, if you actually bought an AR and shot it you'd realize you're an idiot. They're $300 from PSA. You have no excuse.
thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/06/09/a-clean-wouldnt-hurt/
Here is someone who went 15,000 rounds. Zero cleaning. But keep posting Nam era anecdotes and drummed up media reports of nasty girls failing to figure out how their M4s work. It's for the best, they mostly just shoot at other US soldiers.

post the firearms that your corrupt, socialized government thinks that you're too incompetent to safely own, subhuman. You have nothing to add to the conversation, so why are you present? Do you go into lesbian bars to be mad that no women are paying attention to you?

>defending the AK by trashing Americans
>Your military most likely uses a gun based on American guns if in Western Europe
>If Eastern Yuropoor, your military is most likely trash
>"BUT POLAND"
>Relies on Daddy U.S.A to make sure Russia doesn't stomp a mudhole into their anus.
>"HAHA! BUT I'M RUSSIAN"
>Can't project enough force to do shit. Surrounded by U.S. bases or Chinkland

>But I can still by a Saiga or an AK clone for about half the price.
Really? Who is selling them. I will buy literally all of them. Because that AR costs under a thousand. You can't find a single Saiga for that price. I don't know what rock you've been living under, but let me into your time machine.
>Let's see him fire both guns in a dusty/sandy/swampy environment
Watch rob ski do it to literally the CHEAPEST, $300 piece of shit AR PSA makes. It does just fine even in the dust test that most AKs choke up on.
youtube.com/watch?v=crdPv6nAQwU
>Go dip your AR mag in mud. Load it. Make a video of you firing it. Do it.
Mags go in the carrier boolet side down for a reason. It will stop either gun. I remember a fun account of a Spetsnaz operator who had this exact situation happen to him. I wish I still had a link to it. Maybe someone does. I believe it was in Grozny. All I really remember is they inserted by Hind and he had numerous stoppages due to debris somehow getting into his magazines.

But, I'll do it right after you do it to your Saiga which you definitely have.

fpbp pride ruins everything

Guns international has Saigas in 7.62x39 ranging from $650-$850. 12ga Saigas are in the same range. Reaching $900-$1000 in some cases because people buy them more.

>muh YT videos

That's fine. I enjoy that. However, did he fire the AR a fuck ton (like soldiers would do?) Was the AR factory new? Are the AKs they use new? Probably not.

>AKs choke on the dust test
I find that hard to believe.

>boolit side down

Mags getting "contaminated" happens pretty often. Granted most AR mags are carried more securely than Mohammed who tapes them to his other magazine.

>Do it to your saiga

I have. Not on purpose. But I have let nogunz friends use it. One guy dropped a mag into mud and snow, then loaded it. It worked.

>Guns international has Saigas in 7.62x39 ranging from $650-$850.
They have a grand total of SIX saigas for sale in total. The cheapest is $750, used. The cheapest new one is completely unconverted at $1,000. Cease your bullshit. If you want a new Saiga, it costs MORE than that AR.
>That's fine. I enjoy that. However, did he fire the AR a fuck ton (like soldiers would do?) Was the AR factory new? Are the AKs they use new? Probably not.
>shilling AKs
>doesn't know Rob Ski
who the fuck are you. You're not a human. Yes, the AKs are new. Watch every video the man has ever made. It should go a long way to unfucking you.
>Mags getting "contaminated" happens pretty often
This is why you look before you shove. Wipe the top off and you're good.
>One guy dropped a mag into mud and snow, then loaded it. It worked.
Are we dipping mags in mud, or are we getting snow and a tiiiiny bit of dirt in there? There's a kinda huge difference.

>Here's a BCM still capable of shooting sub-MOA after 10,000 rounds, no cleaning of the barrel.
Wow you'd think the barrel would be a smooth-bore after such continuous firing.

>YOU CAN'T FIND-
>WELL...IT'S USED

Oh fuck off. Most ARs you can get for any cheaper and are worth a damn are the same price. You may as well just buy hi-points for all pistol needs if you want to take this train of thought much further. On average, a good Saiga is cheaper than a good AR. Maybe not much cheaper. But it is.

>ROB SKIIII
>YOU DON'T KNOW MUH FAVE YOUTUBER

Gross

>looking at your mags while trying to keep your sights on target

Gross.

> snow doesn't melt into a soup of cold nasty, user

Anything you drop your mag into that makes a slapping noise isn't good, friend.

>are the same price

Damn my drinking. I meant "are used"

> On average, a good Saiga is cheaper than a good AR.
There is no average because fucking nobody is selling them after the import ban. You found ONE cheaper than an AR, used. By the same logic, I can buy that AR used much cheaper than that Saiga. Can you move the goal posts any harder? We start with "you can get a Saiga for half the price of that AR!" Now we're at "w-well if you buy the only used unconverted Saiga for sale on the internet, you can come in $100 less than that AR, new". I don't know how you can even post this dishonestly without feeling disgusted with yourself.
>Maybe not much cheaper. But it is.
But it's not. It's used, the very definition of an unfair comparison. You seem to desperately want to be right about this, but you're not.
>>YOU DON'T KNOW MUH FAVE YOUTUBER
Well, you've clearly been living under a rock and are ill-informed in general, since he's the only person doing quality, reviews of AKs taking them to 5,000 rounds. I mean, of course you still thought Saiga's were cheap, so it's to be expected.
>looking at your mags while trying to keep your sights on target
Does you no good if your mag doesn't go bang
>Anything you drop your mag into that makes a slapping noise isn't good, friend.
So, we're not dipping our mags into mud then, we're just getting a little slush on them. Got it, AR does it fine.

>in military
>buy parts to fix the M4 I'm issued so I don't die in combat
>hey look I'm still carrying an M4 like I'm ordered to do and nobody is the wiser

vs

>buy AK and show up to formation with that instead of my issued rifle
>"Where the fuck is your rifle, soldier?!"
>insist this is my rifle
>get NJP'd and demoted

>by modern standards it's heavy
Modern guns are literally made out of plastic. Its not that the AK is super heavy or anything its the fact that all the chemicals in the goddamn air and water is making us weak shits

Based eurofag

it' not. that heavy .30 projectile needs a longer barrel. it cannot and these youtubers don't make it compare to a fucking psa15 not even don't most other guns? pistol's don't count retard it's literally the most innaccurate modern fighting rifle. hands down. nobody else other than delusional fan boys argues this.

user.... you posted two youtube videos that prove me right?

By modern standards everything is shit, AR using retarded DI a lil bit more than the others tho.