France and Italy forge naval alliance

The Italian government finally gave the green light on a joint venture between the Italian Fincantieri and the French Naval Group on a 50/50 basis

>The alliance reflects the two countries’ desire to fend off competition in naval shipbuilding from the likes of China, the United States and Russia.

>It is targeting orders worth up to 5 billion euros ($5.63 billion) over the next decade. Naval Group said the joint venture aims to build 10-15 warships in that period, with synergies estimated at 10-15%.

>“It is the product of a shared industrial ambition,” Herve Guillou, chief executive of Naval Group told reporters on a call.

>“We are by far the two biggest naval shipbuilders in Europe, but we cannot remain competitive and maximize our resources if we rely only on our domestic markets.”

France and Italy already developed and operated warships together in the past, like the FREMM Aquitane/Bergamini class of frigates, the Orizzonte/Horizon air-defence destroyer and the upcoming European Patrol Corvette. With a third country the project could also be co-funded by the EU under the EU Defence Framework

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youtube.com/watch?v=TbIc1LZqIAw
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Italian FREMM

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French FREMM

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Nice, now if they only stopped accepting fucking human smugglers and their cargo, it'd be neat.

The migrant crisis is over. Italy received something like 2k migrants trying to cross the Mediterranean this year. That's nothing

Oh yeah, because the population growth in Africa is going to stop and the future doesn't exist. Nothing to see here, the migration crisis is over - we had one year with less migration because the Italian government did what's smart for one summer.
What are you, retarded or some EU shill? The fucking migration crisis has just begun. What the EU has gone through was only the beginning, since the EU parliament and council is either full of globalist pro-migration cunts or retards who don't know about anything's that going on.

Fuck off back to Jow Forums you insufferable syphilitic cunt.

Actually he's right. The 2015 crisis is over since late 2016-2017
I don't think you properly understand what the EU is or does. Keep it on topic

Spain makes cool ships with Navantia. They should join them.

Preparations for the European ZOG-Mercenary Army.

based

It would make sense I think. Once you get more than 2 nations you also have access to PESCO funds

As long as Jow Forums allows military and defense related discussions, the military crisis is relevant. The migration into Europe is the #1 security threat in the EU at this point.

Yes, the 2015 crisis is over, but that's not going to be the end of it, since no considerable amount of politicians in the EU council or parliament wish to put an end to it. The flagrant human trafficking continued in the Mediterranean for so fucking long, it's more than obvious the EU leadership wishes for this to happen. There is no possible way the people in power would be so stupid they wouldn't understand the situation.

>since no considerable amount of politicians in the EU council or parliament wish to put an end to it
The crisis is in North Africa and the Middle East. Are you suggesting an EU-led military intervention?
>The flagrant human trafficking continued in the Mediterranean for so fucking long, it's more than obvious the EU leadership wishes for this to happen
Arrivals (both illegal and illegal) are down 95% since 2017, which was already pretty low compared to 2015-2016

They just stopped the chaotic immigration because it was having a strong impact on public opinion. They returned to the "frog in boiling water" tactics. The "refugee crisis" started to backfire on them so they had to put a stop to it.

>The migration into Europe is the #1 security threat in the EU at this point
Yeah, sure. It definitely immigrants and not a fucking Russia who already invaded Ukraine ind currently preparing to invade Poland and Estonia.
You are fucking retarded. This is why right-wing parties fail in every European elections.

>The crisis is in North Africa and the Middle East. Are you suggesting an EU-led military intervention?
I'm suggesting an EU lead naval intervention to the human trafficking that's ongoing in the Mediterranean.
>Arrivals (both illegal and illegal) are down 95% since 2017, which was already pretty low compared to 2015-2016
And that is not the end to it. The population in Africa will increase for at the very least another decade or two.

Sadly it's far too late for multiple countries. France, UK and Germany are already inreparably fucked.

>Yeah, sure. It definitely immigrants and not a fucking Russia who already invaded Ukraine ind currently preparing to invade Poland and Estonia.
Dream on you fucking retard. Russia will only invade those countries in a general European war. Crimea had a majority Russian ethnic population, as well as a Russian naval base. Nothing about it is in any way comparable to invading Poland or the Baltics. The very fact that you'd even suggest it makes it obvious you don't have even the faintest fucking clue of the general geopolitical situation in Eastern/Northern Europe.
>You are fucking retarded. This is why right-wing parties fail in every European elections.
Yeah, muh Russia, muh Russia. Like that fucking shithole was capable of, or even willing to invade the EU. It's a nice distraction from the internal problems of the EU, a technique that's common in any unpopular government.

>t. NATO internet shill
or
>t. hohol shill
or
>t. Polack shill

Russia will totally start WW3 to invade precious Poland and Baltics...lol

As for Ukraine...GOOD! At least Crimea and the Southeast will not be destroyed by gayism, feminism and DIEversity. They should have conquered all of Ukraine that was >50% Russian, Putin kind of cucked out on that one.

>I'm suggesting an EU lead naval intervention to the human trafficking that's ongoing in the Mediterranean.
That already exists, it's called EUNAVFOR Med and the operation is called Sophia
>And that is not the end to it. The population in Africa will increase for at the very least another decade or two.
Probably. But the "crisis" is over for now

Fuck off nigger. You obviously don't even speak English natively.

Sophia existed during the peak of the crisis and you're telling me it's supposed to have done something? Give me some statistics on it actually working, because the NGOs have been picking people up on the coast of Libya far later than that.

why do OTO Melara naval cannons make my pp so hard

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>Give me some statistics on it actually working
The fact that arrivals are down 95% seems like a success to me

Pliz no
Learn to make a sub and we'll reconsider after

Brilliant conjecture.

Yeah, wasn't that hard, was it?

Why would anyone buy anything from France after how unreliable and generally scummy they've been with their previous customers?

Spain will probably join a consortium involving Germany and some other countries.

This decisions are all made from behind the scenes.

Such a shame for those Otomat. It's a real piece of shit
Such a shame for those Herakles Radar. It's a real piece of shit
Also although feasible for the italian couterpart, only the French version is equipped with cruise missile.

Yeah, Sophia existed since August 2015, the smuggling seeing an end in 2019 is definitely an example of the EU operation putting an end to it. Just fuck off. The EU approved and allowed the migration to occur.
They stopped NONE of this. There was no true intervention.
youtube.com/watch?v=TbIc1LZqIAw

>an end in 2019
In 2017*. So yeah
>The EU approved and allowed the migration to occur
The EU has a body didn't even have a border guard until long ago

>has
as*

Ask ausfalia

>In 2017*. So yeah
It took them two years to put an end to smuggling that was occuring through publicly visible ships? Fuck off. If there was ANY willingness to put an end to it, it would have stopped before 2015 ended. You could see the ships carting migrants on AIS. There is no excuse for not stopping these vessels.
>The EU has a body didn't even have a border guard until long ago
But the EU was supposed to register migrants and refugees in the very first country that they arrived in. Guess what fucking happened. The migrants walked across the borders into whatever country they chose, because the EU leadership is completely complicit in enforcing this migrant crisis on the entire of the EU to dilute the population and lessen national unity. By the looks of it, they wish the entirety of Europe to become a mongrel race of countryless mutts that has no loyalty to countries, but only to the EU and their source of revenue.

what? I've heard nothing but praise for them
shouldn't DART and Vulcano be top shelf anti threat defense?

So with France and Italy being best friends again.

When will Italy join FCAS?

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>It took them two years to put an end to smuggling that was occuring through publicly visible ships? Fuck off. If there was ANY willingness to put an end to it, it would have stopped before 2015 ended. You could see the ships carting migrants on AIS. There is no excuse for not stopping these vessels.
Fuck off, you didn't even know the mission existed until I told you a couple of posts ago. The mission was launched in 2015, but it takes months to assemble and coordinate a force of dozens of ships from all over Europe. You can already see the drop in late 2016
>But the EU was supposed to register migrants and refugees in the very first country that they arrived in
No. Under the Dublin Treaty the first country where immigrants arrive must register them, not the EU:
>"Where no Member State responsible can be designated on the basis of the criteria listed in this Regulation, the first Member State in which the application for international protection was lodged shall be responsible for examining it."
How is the EU at fault there?

Please stop talking about things you so blatantly know nothing about. Keep your drivel on Jow Forums and don't shit up Jow Forums

will the FCAS use direct energy weapons? no? then italy stays with the brits

>stay

Also yes

You mean unreliable because of U.S threats such as the deal of two Mistral class helicopter carriers to Russia?

>This is why right-wing parties fail in every European elections.
In EU elections they got about 23% of the votes.
If by failing you mean not winning a majority, then every party and coalition has failed.

>will the FCAS use direct energy weapons?
That's the objective yeah

fuck I thought they were already on board
>also yes
really?

>but it takes months to assemble and coordinate a force of dozens of ships from all over Europe. You can already see the drop in late 2016
You say it takes months first, then over a year. Which is it? Is the operation so incompetent they can't track and stop ships that are visible to the public? You could give me one goddamn vessel and I could put a stop to the operation of these traffickers.
marinetraffic.com/
You could see the ships right here and you're telling me the operation had any genuine interest in stopping these traffickers? What are you basing your claim on? Public statements that have nothing to do with reality? Propaganda?
>No. Under the Dublin Treaty the first country where immigrants arrive must register them, not the EU:
> in the very first country that they arrived in
Yeah, that's what I meant, albeit I wrote it unclearly. The refugees should have been registered in Italy and France, in the Balkans, yet the EU did absolutely nothing to regulate this.
>How is the EU at fault there?
By completely failing to enforce its own treaties. What use is in the EU if it can't even enfore its own rules? Why in the living fuck are governments paying for this bureucratic abomination if it can't even put a stop to thousands of people walking across the border?
>Please stop talking about things you so blatantly know nothing about. Keep your drivel on Jow Forums and don't shit up Jow Forums
Go fuck yourself. It's blatantly obvious the EU leadership wants the migrants in Europe and the personal comments of some of the people at the top only go further to prove it. They give out a goddamn Coudenhove-Kalergi price.

>You say it takes months first, then over a year. Which is it?
I'm not a naval commander, but do you expect a mission to be fully operationally the day after its creation was announced?
>Is the operation so incompetent they can't track and stop ships that are visible to the public?
No, because arrivals are down 95% and that's a fact
>What are you basing your claim on?
By the fact that more than a million immigrants arrived in Europe in 2015 and barely 100k in 2018, with even less estimated for 2019
>The refugees should have been registered in Italy and France, in the Balkans, yet the EU did absolutely nothing to regulate this
Because the EU is not a country and doesn't have the power to control how Italy or Greece or whatever allocate their funds or manage their registration centers
>By completely failing to enforce its own treaties
Like what treaty? The Dublin one was respected, Schengen too
>It's blatantly obvious the EU leadership wants the migrants in Europe and the personal comments of some of the people at the top only go further to prove it
Well they're pretty bad at that then, with the immigrant crisis being over and everything. I guess that allocating EU funds for 10.000 border guards by 2024 (on top of the ones funded by member states) must be some kind of 5D plan to actually let MORE people in somehow

>Why in the living fuck are governments paying for this bureucratic abomination if it can't even put a stop to thousands of people walking across the border?
Are you aware of the fact that the EU isn't (wasn't) in charge of the external borders but only of the internal ones, yes?

>I'm not a naval commander, but do you expect a mission to be fully operationally the day after its creation was announced?
Answer the fucking question. You could have had a single corvette, a single patrol vessel, anything, put an end to this smuggling operation. The trafficking occured completely in the public eye, yet nothing was done.dw
>No, because arrivals are down 95% and that's a fact
Yeah, many years after they've already flooded into Europe and anti-migration parties have started being voted into power and into the EU itself.
>Because the EU is not a country and doesn't have the power to control how Italy or Greece or whatever allocate their funds or manage their registration centers
Yet they had the power to punish Hungary for its actions? There was, at no point, even any symbolic efforts to enforce the Dublin treaty. Nothing at all.
>Like what treaty? The Dublin one was respected, Schengen too
Is that why thousands of migrants walked through Europe into the Nordic countries to apply for asylum? What part of this action is in accordance to either treaty?
>Well they're pretty bad at that then, with the immigrant crisis being over and everything. I guess that allocating EU funds for 10.000 border guards by 2024 (on top of the ones funded by member states) must be some kind of 5D plan to actually let MORE people in somehow
They're actively talking about legal methods of entry for migrants into Europe. Not that it's going to matter when Germany and France are looking at a future with 1/3 migrant background inhabitants.

And it's over those very internal borders that the migrants walked through.

>You could have had a single corvette, a single patrol vessel, anything, put an end to this smuggling operation
Evidently not. Are you an expert in naval operations, some kind of admiral I guess?
>Yeah, many years after they've already flooded into Europe
More or less one year actually. Seems to me like a pretty decent response time considering it had to be decided by 28 different countries
>Yet they had the power to punish Hungary for its actions?
Because the wall was with Croatia, and that violates Schengen since Croatia is a EU member. Again you know nothing about the topic
>There was, at no point, even any symbolic efforts to enforce the Dublin treaty. Nothing at all
Like what point of the Dublin treaty in particular?
>Is that why thousands of migrants walked through Europe into the Nordic countries to apply for asylum?
They shouldn't have left Italy or Greece. That's their fault. EU countries are free to close their borders momentarily when there's an emergency, and France and Austria iirc did it when Italy wasn't able to cope with the migrants
>They're actively talking about legal methods of entry for migrants into Europe
Any member state can veto such a proposal if they wish to

Maybe they can design something that leaves port more than once every five years.

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Like picture related?

that's rich from an american

>Evidently not
And what proof do you have of the operation being aimed at stopping the migration, really? What statistics, what arrests? How is it possible for vessels broadcasting their identity and location to traffic individuals during the operation, if it was meant to stop it? If you're claiming the end to the migration, you might as well blame the rise in nationalist parties putting pressure on the EU itself.
>More or less one year actually. Seems to me like a pretty decent response time considering it had to be decided by 28 different countries
The parliament is not 28 different countries, it's representatives in a single area. An entire year for them to vote on something as simple and important as this is either complete bullshit or bureucratic retardation of an unthinkable degree.
>Because the wall was with Croatia, and that violates Schengen since Croatia is a EU member. Again you know nothing about the topic
And the migrants' movements violated the Dublin treaty, yet nothing was done. The Schengen matters, but not the Dublin? I wonder why that would be.
>what point of the Dublin treaty in particular?
Article 6, specifically.
>When it can be proved that an applicant for asylum has irregularly crossed the border into a Member State by land, sea or air, having come from a non-member State of the European Communities, the Member State this entered shall be responsible for examining the application for asylum.
>EU countries are free to close their borders momentarily when there's an emergency, and France and Austria iirc did it when Italy wasn't able to cope with the migrants
And that is in violation of the Dublin convention. The migrants ask for refugee status in the very vessels they arrive in, yet they march onto different nations in Europe. The damn thing died in 2018 because of the EU violating it and Eastern European countries thus refusing to follow Brussels' intentions.
>Any member state can veto such a proposal if they wish to

>And what proof do you have of the operation being aimed at stopping the migration, really?
The fact that immigration basically stopped. You keep talking about an invasion but arrivals continue to go down, we are now at pre-crisis levels
>The parliament is not 28 different countries, it's representatives in a single area
But countries need to provide the assets, as the EU does not have a navy
>An entire year for them to vote on something as simple and important as this is either complete bullshit or bureucratic retardation of an unthinkable degree.
I don't know it if actually took a year. The first results are after more or less a year since Sophia was announced
>Article 6, specifically.
>having come from a NON-member State of the European Communities
Italy, Greece and Croatia are all Member States. You either didn't even read what you posted or simply didn't understand it. The snippet you posted has nothing to do with immigrants moving from one member state to the other
>And that is in violation of the Dublin convention
No? It's allowed by Schengen. You can do it if there is a terrorist attack too
>The migrants ask for refugee status in the very vessels they arrive in, yet they march onto different nations in Europe
The treaty clearly says "first nation"
>Eastern European countries thus refusing to follow Brussels' intentions
The redistribution of immigrants is on a voluntary basis. It's in their right to refuse to welcome people that didn't land on their shores

>The fact that immigration basically stopped. You keep talking about an invasion but arrivals continue to go down, we are now at pre-crisis levels
And this situation is not going to last. The EU, as I said, is working towards ensuring legal routes for migration and dispersion of those migrants into EU countries.
>But countries need to provide the assets, as the EU does not have a navy
Yet Italy and France have a coast guard that could have, at any time been simply told to do their job. That would not have taken an entire year. They're already out on the sea doing their job.
>I don't know it if actually took a year. The first results are after more or less a year since Sophia was announced
Which either means the EU is utterly incompetent or they did not intend to stop the migration effectively. Both simply add to my hatred of the bureucratic abomination that's trying to skip centuries of societal development.
>Italy, Greece and Croatia are all Member States. You either didn't even read what you posted or simply didn't understand it. The snippet you posted has nothing to do with immigrants moving from one member state to the other
>the Member State this entered shall be responsible for examining the application for asylum.
Yes and specifically the nation that the refugee applicant entered from outside of the EU is responsible for examining the application of the asylum. The individuals are carted off the coast of Libya into Italy for this purpose. They specifically fulfill article 6 of the convention.
>No? It's allowed by Schengen. You can do it if there is a terrorist attack too
Refugee applicants entering from outside the EU must be registered in the first country they arrive in. This did not happen. This was allowed by the EU and the EU did absolutely nothing about it.
>The redistribution of immigrants is on a voluntary basis..
I'm not complaining about them, I'm pointing out the fact that the convention is dead, now that it's been violated so deeply.

Kek!

>And this situation is not going to last. The EU, as I said, is working towards ensuring legal routes for migration and dispersion of those migrants into EU countries.
So now you can see in the future I guess, and accusing the EU of events that didn't even happen yet
>Yet Italy and France have a coast guard that could have, at any time been simply told to do their job
They did, but they could not cope with the rising costs of the surge in immigration. EU help was then requested
>Which either means the EU is utterly incompetent or they did not intend to stop the migration effectively. Both simply add to my hatred of the bureucratic abomination that's trying to skip centuries of societal development.
Lmao stop being so mad. Would you prefer the EU acted without consulting its members, spending member's money on a whim however it wanted? Maybe with its own navy?
Btw, the EU is actually very light in terms of bureaucracy. Around the same number of functionaries of the city of Vienna
>Yes and specifically the nation that the refugee applicant entered from outside of the EU is responsible for examining the application of the asylum
We all agree on that. I thought you were discussing immigrants moving from Italy to France
> This did not happen.
It happened, in Italy and in Greece. Even if that wasn't the case, or only partially, it would've been the fault of Italy or Greece and not of the EU
>This was allowed by the EU
Again stating your opinion as a fact
>I'm pointing out the fact that the convention is dead, now that it's been violated so deeply
How did they violate it if it was stated in the treaty that it was in their power to do what they did? They are merely following the treaty itself

>So now you can see in the future I guess, and accusing the EU of events that didn't even happen yet
If they publish their intentions to work on legal migration, then I'll take their word on it. They've proven themselves more than willing to enable the muttification of European countries.
>They did, but they could not cope with the rising costs of the surge in immigration. EU help was then requested
They blocked their entry into Europe on the basis of them being illegal migrants? When did they do that?
>Lmao stop being so mad
I won't. I'll loathe the EU until the damn thing crumbles into ashes.
>Would you prefer the EU acted without consulting its members, spending member's money on a whim however it wanted? Maybe with its own navy?
I would prefer it to work for the benefit of the peoples of Europe, not the bureucrats and leaders sitting in Brussels, dreaming of quick-globalising the continent and diluting the populations into disloyal masses of mongrels.
>Btw, the EU is actually very light in terms of bureaucracy. Around the same number of functionaries of the city of Vienna
Then why would they take an entire year to get a grip on stopping the human trafficking?
>it would've been the fault of Italy or Greece and not of the EU
Yet the EU should maintain and enforce its own treaties. If it does not, the treaties are completely worthless and violable by anyone. The Dublin convention has already been rendered worthless because of this. It was not followed, enforced and you might as well wipe your ass with the paper it's written on.
>your opinion as a fact
The other option is that the EU is simply incompetent and in turn I refuse to believe that people in such positions of power would and could be less capable than myself. Just the fact that they've beat their competition means they have to have at least some merit.
>How did they violate it
By not examining the applications of asylum seekers, but allowing them to march further into Europe.

>They've proven themselves more than willing to enable the muttification of European countries
Lol
>They blocked their entry into Europe on the basis of them being illegal migrants? When did they do that?
During Operation Mare Nostrum, and the normal border guard activities
>I'll loathe the EU until the damn thing crumbles into ashes.
I noticed, but you'll have a stroke if you continue to seethe this much for no real reason
>more Jow Forumstier drivel
Not even gonna comment. The EU has less than half the number of civil servants the French ministry of Finance has, I wouldn't call it a "bureucratic abomination"
>Then why would they take an entire year to get a grip on stopping the human trafficking?
Because the EU doesn't have a navy, and it's not like they can commandeer ships from the member states. Every member state needed to approve the usage of their ships, men, etc etc. Sounds very reasonable to me
1 year in nothing considering we are talking about a continent-wide political body. Trump didn't even build the wall yet and he's the President of a single country
>The Dublin convention has already been rendered worthless because of this
Yet you didn't manage to quote a single point of the Treaty that was broken
>By not examining the applications of asylum seekers, but allowing them to march further into Europe
They did examine them, classified as refugees and gave them a temporary VISA in Italy and Spain. Greece basically collapsed under the influx of refugees. The EU even struck a deal with Turkey to block the immigrants there. What other solutions are you proposing (apart for the creation of an EU naval mission, which you didn't know already existed?)

They were unreliable that one time the British threatened to undo 50 years of nuclear anti-proliferation efforts, knowing the pinko president wouldn't call the bluff. Meanwhile you mutts tell countries that they need to remotely download software updates just to be able to fly the damn things, or that defending from country x with the hardware is off-limits.

:(

There is nothing particular with the CDG.
18 months at sea/ 18 months in the dockyard.
It's how it works for any nuclear carrier.

Oh yeah
The Aster on the FREMM is top notch, be it on the italian or French ship. But the Herakles is really average for a radar that size (and price)
Fun fact, during formidable shield of the coast of Scotland a french aster managed to shoot down an incoming coyote.
During the same exercise, a Canadian frigate shot an essm to the same kind of target but the missile missed.

>Such a shame for those Otomat. It's a real piece of shit
>Oh yeah it's top shelf
make up your mind Jow Forums

18 month in the dockyard every 10-12 years, it's not really that bad.
Also, cdg can put as many ammo in the air as a qe, with almost half the size.

>The fact that arrivals are down 95% seems like a success to me
You're an idiot. Arrivals are down 95% but family reunification is in full swing.

Otomat is the Anti-ship missile. They are obsolete as obsolete can be.
Aster on the other hand is state of the art. However, a missile of this kind is only as good as it's radar

It requires more refueling periods than other nuclear vessels due to France's outdated naval reactor tech. France is still using upgraded K-15 reactors, which are just bigger versions of the old CAS-48 on the Rubis, and those reactors were already worse than their contemporaries when they went into service. France has in the past had a booming civilian nuclear economy, so i'm not sure why their military nuclear tech has always been so shit.

fuck I'm a retard

>outdated
>so shit
>durrrrrr
There is nothing wrong with it, it was a deliberate choice because it allows the use of the same fuel as the civil nuke industry.
It's massive savings for the cost of a longer downtime every 10 fucking years, I don't see the big deal.

Those are gonna happen anyway unfortunately. Better with 1000 migrants than 1.000.000

Why not just buy more ships from the US :)

Because they are buying them from the EU.

>There is nothing wrong with it
Apart from that it has given French sailors radiation posining? The utter state of you defending the CdG.

That's untrue.

On 16 September 2001 the French press reported slightly higher than acceptable radioactivity levels aboard Charles de Gaulle, thought to be caused by a faulty isolation element. It was later discovered that the radioactivity levels matched the design, but that the regulations concerning acceptable radioactivity levels had changed.

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