What went wrong?
textron is the front runner so far, so I don't understand what you mean.
>m4 replacement
Never ever
These are older testbed prototypes that were shown off before.
The actual NGSW submissions will look very different since Textron/AAI are teaming up with H&K and Winchester for the actual weapons they're submitting.
On another note, here's what Sig is submitting
This. Won't happen
I feel like they do this shit to push innovation in the gun industry.
Sig bit the bullet, they're out of the running. Textron showed working examples which were FAR more impressive.
I'm fucking psyched because we'll be ahead of the Russians for 100 years if we go caseless and telescoping.
Are they offering design output or just providing larger scale production capability?
if only there was another way
i dunno, like opening the market to civilians
but what am i saying, when has that ever worked
>heavier less effective ar that has futuristic barrel shroud
If we pick this I'm gonna be so fucking mad.
so 6.8 is going to come back from being obsolete and become common use?
>100 years
>caseless and telescoping
The performance doesn't seem to be all that beyond what the Russians were doing in the late 80s, should they feel like dusting it off.
>caseless
we'd be ahead of them for a while true.
But if we try rocket propelled bullets, they'll never catch up.
It's not the same 6.8, so no. Also greater than 85% chance this project fizzles out before going anywhere.
fucking genius
6mm unified had a barrel life of 5000-6000 rounds - and that's russian standards.
It was simply an overclocked round in a steel case. Good stuff if you only look at the external ballistics, but not lighter and no novel propellants. Nor did the russians put in work with explosively welded stellite, tantalum etc for small-bore barrel liners.
>Sig bit the bullet, they're out of the running
Source?
>Also greater than 85% chance this project fizzles out before going anywhere
The Army seems serious about their modernization projects this time around.
I think there is pretty much zero chance the US is going to be bomb welding tantalum on grunt barrels.
40% lighter than the 7.62x54mmR. 3700 ft/s and 3200J of energy. Supersonic out to 1100 meters.
yeah, but the performance! tantalum barrels are about 3000% longer lasting than unlined - for contrast, chrome is about 60% better, stellite maybe 200%.
stellite I can see happening if they find a way.
tantalum....who knows, maybe for future cyborg guns.
>6x49mm
what's with the second groove in the case?
It would be a massive waste of tantalum and money. Maybe if the mission was literally off world.
To help the steel case expand without failing. How? I have no clue...
It is to help the steel case with expansion and prevent rupture.
russian space magic
It's a crush space equivalent to prevent the case blowing up.
Expansion groove. As the groove irons out it slightly lengthens the case to give a bit of extra push to the bolt for exraction. One of Maxim's old patents.
Stellite lining has been a thing since WW2.
Neither of those pictures are of Textron's NGSW submission.
The best part is the user making this claim in every NGSW thread will disappear as soon as the winner is selected.
Look, I want to believe, I just don't.
>the army is actually going to buy a gun they're going to have to rebarrel constantly
>the army is going to try something new and actually adopt it
>the army is going to be cool
none of the above are likely in this universe.
>Stellite lining has been a thing since WW2
Look at the big brain on you, sweetie. You can google boomer history just like grandpappy!
Stellite on big bores is old. The engineering for reliably attaching stellite liners into sub-50cal barrels is new.
I bet you have tons of friends
I would assume they're doing design and production based on the R&D and tech that AAI is providing
AAI has made a lot of prototypes over the years, but has never actually brought a rifle to market themselves. If they needed a big company for just production, there are many cheaper partners they could have done it with
>>first is the m4 replacement
>thing in the center of the pic looks like a slightly thinner SAW
lmao that'll never get adopted
Honestly we're hitting a point where even ISIS was rocking armor. We cant assume the other guy isnt packing at least level III equivalent anymore
>even isis
We were literally supporting them through Nusra and Al Qaeda dingus, if we dont do that it wont happen.
>Light rifle that throws 30 rounds of 5.56 down range
I doubt they will spend many millions of dollars to replace it with another rifle that does the exact same thing but requires different training, parts supplies, magazines etc... It wouldn't even make sense. They'd have to see a real difference like the new rifle being chambered in 6.8 and 6.8 being a truly superior round, functionally, across a broad range of aspects.
I don't see it happening anytime soon.
>after 6.5 comes 6.8
at this rate you guys at last will stop being retarded and invent bicycle(7.62) again
it took almost 70 years
When it inevitably happens, will ARfags finally admit the inferiority of both their rifle and its caliber?
It's going to happen, and it's long overdue. It's a shitty rifle, and many of you will only realize it once you're selling it for the next new military tacticool fix. Just stop buying them now, no one's gonna want them.
I don't know if this is smart. Maybe tone down what the Russian did just a bit - 10,000 rounds, and have a training load plus remanufacture of existing ammunition stocks to keep them fresh. DESU the training ammunition could be quite cheap in the horrible sense. Plastic?
I really doubt this will happen. Even if it does, it'll be a gigantic waste of money.
On the other hand, the army has shown itself willing to make some pretty drastic forbidden changes recently like picking up the ACFT and dropping gender based standards so who really knows.
Armalite Rifles, both 10 and 15, are the pinnacle of small arms development. You can kick and scream all you like, but there is not a more space efficient or better designed conventional cartridge rifle anywhere on the planet.
These things are light as fuck too. LSAT, the OG prototype, only weighed about 10 lbs.
Why do all the cool arms manufacturers not care about the civilian market?
Alexander arms has the Grendel and there is the .300 blackout , .458 SOCOM , 6.5 creedmoor, 6.8mm fudd anyway it's just a matter of do you want to pay extra for their snowflake rounds.
Good lord that shit is hideous
Sexy optic on the left, looks like something out of doom.
>space efficient
Lol, it's not a bullpup, nor does the stock even fold. It's a hollow aluminum tube surrounded by plastic, that if bent jams up the BCG rendering your weapon inoperable.
Just make a replaceable barrel rifle and issue unlined steel barrels. You only need it to last between armorer maintenance periods, its not a commercial rifle that will be passed through ten generations of fudds that dont maintain it.
Liking the AR is fine, but you're just as delusional as 1911fags if you think a single design is the end-all.
They'll eat their words when it gets replaced. It'll be like another m1a, a just decent gun that's not even as good as it's competitors, but with a heavy fanbase of guys who actually think it's a viable rifle.
There's already plenty of guns that could easily replace it if money/retraining wasn't a factor. For example I'd easily take a SCAR over an AR, or a sig 550.
5.56mm is here to stay until something truely revolutionary like polymer case, caseless ammo, directed energy, laser guns etc. The tiny improvements other intermediate calibers offer over 5.56mm don't warrant the huge cost of changing everything. Especially since most kills are not made with small arms anyways.
>sig 550
A SG 551 or 553 would be a better option for a modern infantry rifle. More compact more light but with a decent barrel length
Yeah, but if your basic rifle isn't even threatening anymore, then it can't suprress. Thus, it can't even do THAt right.
5.56mm ball and hollowpoint are THE deadliest rifle calibers for standard infantry rifleman....against unarmored humans. But with the proliferation of body armor, the choices are all new 6.whatever or going back to 7.62 Nato.
Either works, but all the 7.62 rifles are old and busted, and we would be required to purchase new builds anyways. So 6.5 Grendel(pls), 6.8 Whatver or 6.5 Creedmoor it is.
And put grenade launcher back on the rifles, the M203s were perfect. Add some of those 40mm miniature missiles. Proliferate Milkor 40mm Launchers and the 25mm CDTE.
i forgot pic
It's called the RK2000
Agreed.
Yeah yeah, end of the ar soon, same as last year and the year after that.
See you tomorrow
People will still duck when getting shot at. Helmets don't stop 5.56mm and it isn't like getting shot in the arms and legs with 5.56mm is just something you brush off.
Tungston core 5.56mm punches right through many plates.
Tell me when plates stop suppression, sweetie.
Unless you're fighting block to block, they are rarely even a factor - only your head and arms are exposed from behind hard cover.
>something revolutionary like polymer case
You do realize that it's not just a caliber change on offer here. 2 out of the 3 remaining options (at least, idk about the third) are poly case, one of those is Polymer CT (the one in the OP no less).
polymer telescoping caseless ammo when
>Tungsten core 5.56 punches right through many plates.
The real problem here is how rapidly tungsten reserves will be chewed through if the standard round needs to use it.
Hopefully when Textron/AAI/HK/Olin Winchester is adopted after NGSW
Everyone point and laugh at the guy who has never humped shit in his life. 762 guns are heavy af, and the ammo is too.
When your basic combat load is now reduced, you're going to be down to what, 60, 80 rounds just from suppressing a 2 man LP/OP, and that's just on your way to the target. So now your squad/plt/whatever size element, is going to need resupplied twice as often to maintain the same combat effectiveness, to do what exactly? Because some desk jockey general with a hardon for handing out wunderweapon contracts thinks its a good idea that rifles have penetrate level 4 plates at 300m?
Keep in mind pvt snuffy cant shoot out to 300m because he can't see the enemy at 300m, nor is he that accurate bc he's now winded as fuck from carrying his 20lb wundergehwer
556 is where its at for general military use. And plates or not, you won't shrug off a 556 being shot at you. It's not a videogame, you will be scared of your extremities or face catching a bullet.
6.8 spc?
No.
ok so here we have the guy who's obviously a no-guns and doesnt shoot ever. BC if you did you'd understand the handling advantages, in-line recoil etc offered by the AR platform.
I like other guns, but the AR is the best in terms of shootability. Remember when FN's shooting team had to use SCARs and how laughably handicapped they were by it? Yeah I have both a SCAR L sbr and a SCAR H, they're neat, but an AR will eat their lunch in a contest of sheer shootability.
That said, its never a good idea to just throw our hands up and say "this is as good as it gets, why bother with anything else?" but damn if it isn't hard right now to improve upon the stoner platform.
You can take your shit tier triggers out of my face. Why the hell do you think CAG keeps using Mk18s instead of bullpups when they have enough funding to buy a brigade worth of any bullpup in the world and fit it within their logistic train?
Interesting.
It has a built-in laser rangefinder and adjusts the reticle for range so it's like a mini-FCS. I wonder what the battery life will be like
Have you been to the sandbox? We were shooting 5.56 at guys with long range hunting rifles or dragunov types with cheap scopes that could hit us out to 800 yards. At that point all you really can do with the 5.56 is "suppress." You ain't gonna hit shit and you sure ain't gonna kill it. I felt like we were dependent on artillery and air support, when in reality if we had decent long range guns we could've handled shit on our own instead of leveling whole villages... There are a very well documented reasons why the military wants to switch. Believe me the bottom wants someth5 different, but the top is playing their goddamn games.
Special forces groups like to stay interchangeable. Most guys in a spec unit are accustomed to ARs, most are going to pick ARs, and thus the few actual gun guys who want something different/better have to suck it up and take an AR to retain mag/ammo/parts interchangeability. Don't pretend to understand special forces groups when you don't understand basic logistics.
Daily reminder that
>it doesn't make sense to do that
has never been, is not, and will never be a valid reason for the US Military to not adopt a new weapons platform
This timeline sucks
>We were shooting 5.56 at guys with long range hunting rifles or dragunov types with cheap scopes that could hit us out to 800 yards.
That doesn't sound like something a slightly higher caliber rifle can fix. Besides, if your DM can't take our the threat you usually just call inn some sort of indirect support or an air strike. Don't pretend that having everyone carry the next shiny new rifle is going to change that.
No matter how hard you try
No matter how many billions you waste
You will never ever match, let alone top these.
Literal perfection.