Does natural talent exist or is everything achieved through hardwork and dedication?

To be honest it's like 99% natural talent and 1% hard work. If you're someone like me who has no natural talent for anything suicide is really the only course in life.

Some things you have to learn, like guitar for example. I had to go through hard work to play guitar and I'm still not as good as I want to be. Always be open to learning. I know some people who are born for some talents, like athletic people. They're born pretty much good at football and basketball and what not. But me, the talent I was born with was pissing everyone off

hardwork and dedication, but some people are born to do certain things to a degree.

The problem with talent is that it is the only enabler of dedication. It is only through initial talent can a person see their potential in whatever they're good at doing.

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haha #yolo

consult your personality quiz
INTP architect here

>buy guitar
>pretty good the first 6 months, play for about 2 hour a day
>"man, maybe I've got some talent"
>start playing progressively less as time goes on
>4 years later and i can't get past the beginning of the master of puppets solo
>watch video of a kid that's been playing only for 11 months and he nails the solo perfectly

Y-Yeah, maybe he worked harder

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lmao just fucking play the strings dude, use your fingers

dude haha just play more lmao like get a teacher haha pfff like dude 8 hours a day ahaha

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Talent and hard work do not exist. It is all in your head and you are capable of doing anything with relative ease, so long as you can will it.

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Most people don't have much talent. I'm one of them, I'm kinda dumb too. I never really let that get in my way. If you don't know how to do something, learn from someone who does. If you're an idiot, overcompensate by working harder, and learn from someone who's smarter. Eventually you'll be far better than average even if you are a little slow in the head.

Talent exists. BUT, it only becomes a relevant defining factor at the upper eschalons of a skill, because progress is asymptotal and the differences between individuals narrows. Think about how a fat bloke goes from not being able to run for a minute to running for 12 consecutively in a few weeks of working out doing couch to 5k, but Olympic runners spend months and months shaving milliseconds off of their time (and those milliseconds are what races are won or lost in). "Talent" is a justification for those who aren't motivated at the bottom end of skill distribution.

You know what IS important? Motivation. There's 4 types of motivation (5 actually I'll get to that). It's a 2x2 matrix, success and failure, internal and external. Internal success is being motivated by improving yourself, external success is being motivated by for instance attention and praise from others. Internal failure is being motivated by avoiding failure because of feelings of shame or guilt directed at yourself by you, and external motivation is for instance, being motivated because if you don't accomplish a task you won't have the money to buy food or you'll be homeless.

Everyone is motivated by all 4 of the forces to some effect, but external failure is the most potent in the majority of individuals. This is why you get people "wallowing in mediocrity" or are "complacent". Although they want to be better or learn something, they're putting food on the table and a roof over their heads, so it's hard to work up the energy to invest a lot of time into something. People who achieve great things are more motivated by what they'll get if they succeed than simply avoiding the harshest failures. The real key to success is to get all 4 forces of motivation working for you. If you're struggling to, try re contextualizing one as another. If you're most motivated by external failure, re contextualize what you could get for your success as what you'll miss out on if you fail.

>"Talent" is a justification for those who aren't motivated at the bottom end of skill distribution.

How can you be THIS bluepilled? Talent is the biggest factor, people at the lower end of skill distribution are destined to be there

In this world, is the destiny of mankind controlled by some transcendental entity or law?

Any worthwhile skill takes time and effort to learn. If you arent on the top 10% already, you should be practicing and not wasting time thinking about whether or not you can ever reach the top 1%.

there are some people who work really hard and achieve things because of the whole "fake it till you make it" deal, but then there are also people who succeed at everything effortlessly.

based void, lemme join the god hand

spending time on /ic/ has taught me that its a bit of both. dont listen to everyone here. some things will have talent play more weight, others will have more hard work. drawing in my opinion is more work and understanding than mere talent.

this
ophuigylldut

It's 2/3 talent and 1/3 hard work. You can improve a lot but the base has to be there

Both. You will be naturally compelled to do something because you're a bit better than everyone else at that thing. And because of your compulsion, you will naturally end up improving your skills.
Your subconscious mind has to want it. A lot of people, for example, only end up playing an instrument like guitar or piano to look cool but really have no interest in music whatsoever. As long as you take up a hobby for cosmetic purposes, you won't get anywhere with it.
You have to legitimately want it.

Lazy high EYE QUE faggot here,
Talented people can get by in the world with minimal effort, but being smart and doing the work of a normal(retarted) person leads to a miserable life.
I feel gross everyday.

so the ones who are already good will only get better and the ones who suck will just keep sucking?

suck my dix i betta

>You have to legitimately want it.

what if you legitimately want it but do nothing all day every single day without a change in rhythm and so instead you spend all your days wishing you had done it instead of actually have done it?
what do you do? asking for someone else
i'd argue to him that maybe it isn't actually something he wants, but if his mind is consumed with it pretty much all the time except when he's wasting time on video games, well then maybe thats not it

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>what if you legitimately want it but do nothing all day every single day without a change in rhythm and so instead you spend all your days wishing you had done it instead of actually have done it?
It's like learning to drive.
It doesn't matter how much you want to learn if you never actually go ahead and do it. However, if after all these years, you still want to learn, you can still go ahead and try.

I've seen people in their 60s who have literally never touched a musical instrument in their lives start taking guitar lessons and actually get really, really good at it. They learned faster than a lot of their contemporaries.
Get yourself a guitar and start, it's never too late for that. If that's what "your friend" is asking.

>pretty much all the time except when he's wasting time on video games
honestly people who play a lot of video games tend to have great hand-eye coordination, increasing their chances at being really good at something like playing a musical instrument.
and if you have a computer specified for gaming, chances are the audio latency would already be so low that you could just buy a midi controller and go to town.
literally just download reaper, get a $99 25-key controller and continue from there.

gaming and music go hand-in-hand.

>onestly people who play a lot of video games tend to have great hand-eye coordination,

Nah man. I play lots of video games and I can't catch things for the life of me

The guy who believes he can and the guy who believes he can't are both right

it's also how you practice
if you do the same thing over and over again you will never improve

>It's all in-built genetics and born talent, that's redpilled tbqh bro
What an excellent easy catch-all excuse to never be challenged and never put in effort

Such a poor refutation of the truth

>Practice dedicated 2 hours a day
>Start getting good
>Practicing and dedication decline
>Skills decline, stop getting good
>People who continue practicing get better than you
CURSE YOU, IN-BORN TALENT

Well how's your dexterity?

Poor sometimes I move the wrong finger on accident when trying to move then in a rhythm

Natural talent exists, but you're entirely capable of going to competitive places without it in whatever you set your mind and energy towards.

You just won't get to elite levels. You can surely become well versed, though.

If natural talent lets you get good twice as quickly as someone who's naturally shit, your 10,000 hours are worth 20,000 of theirs. This is a huge difference and in a world with billions of people where you're competing with a million Chinese kids who can play Chopin etudes at 8 years old because they also maxed out their hardwork and dedication this is the only thing that can separate those who make it from those who don't.

Yes talent exists. Look at Mozart. Tell me talent doesn't exist and then try to explain him. You can't. But people like him are rare, true geniuses are always rare, in most cases talent just means it's easier for you to learn something. You are a "natural" at it in that you require little or no instruction to begin practicing, you understand it intuitively. You still need practice though, nobody (except geniuses) is amazing when they first begin practicing a skill. It takes many hours to master anything, but the number of hours depends on your talent. Some people learn much faster than others, or already possess an innate understanding of some principles necessary to the skill that others have to learn from scratch.

Just as an example: drawing. Drawing is a skill almost anybody can learn with practice, but some people have natural abilities that make it easier. Probably the most useful and basic of these is hand-eye coordination. Anyone can learn and practice it, but some people have it naturally and it makes drawing a lot easier if you are just naturally very coordinated. The ability to judge perspective, distance, and proportion are also things some people just do better naturally. Controlling your hand and learning how to move it though, only a genius has that at the start, or can figure it out instantly, even talented people need to practice that part, but having the perception and coordination come naturally makes it easier to focus on the hard part, they can get started much easier.

Imagine talent as a x10 boost to hardwork.

Everything people do is the result of genetics and environment interacting.

1. Hard work can somewhat, sometimes make up for shitty genetics. If you practice anything enough you will get good at it, or at least knowledgable enough to teach it (those who can't do teach)
2. Good genetics can somewhat, sometimes compensate for lack of dedication.
3. True talent is the product of both genetic aptitude, and dedicated hard work.
4. Most people suck at things because they have very little aptitude for a specific activity, and to be able to focus on anything in general.

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Hard work,environment,culture and circumstance are what matter.Also being aware of opportunities and seizing them.

"Talented" people are just people who at childhood were given more opportunity. And that snowballs.It's called accumulative advantage.

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