Why is "power clean vs barbell row" such a volatile topic...

Stop wishing for it and start working for it

i'm lifting but i'm a 5'5'' manlet and that swole body would look awful in my frame. Athletic is all i can hope for

Whatever man

how to even get that, like hypertrophy, strength, and how many years to get it. I'm in snap city, but I should be out for one more week or two so I'm wondering on how to get it

but manlets can become god tier THICC

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because that's the go-to non rippetoe approved replacement for power cleans in the SS program

they don't serve the same functions at all really, but SS is entirely missing a horizontal pull so people add in rows in that exercise slot

PCs are not particularly useful for anyone who is not a football player or something, and uncoordinated unathletic neets are going to have a hell of a time trying to self teach them

1. If you're an athlete do cleans
2. Pendlay rows suck dic. Save your lower back the headache and do them more upright
3. Novices don't get much out of rows because they're more technical and they usually use baby weight whilst the lats are enormous muscles

Rows are IMO the best lat exercise, however you need to know how to actually activate your lats, which isn't something novices do well. Do pull ups until you can barbell row 135 easy, then id start incorporating them

Tbf power cleans are pretty simple as loaded explosive movements go, and as a self taught 175lbs skinny kid I've still got mine upto 200lbs only training it casually

Honest to god do starting strength, as written in the book. Read the book for good form so you don't go back to snap city. Power cleans are great to get the built athletic look, but rows are fine too if you can't/won't do them, no one will care except sad losers on Jow Forums and Rippitoe. Eat clean and maintain, light bulk if you are a skeleton, light cut if you are a fatty. Play a sport, do cardio, do something active 3/week. If you want to look athletic, be athletic. Lastly, get enough sleep. Set a bed time, sleep 8 hours a night, it is crucial for gains.

L M A O
dont go bearmode unless you are 6'2"
any shorter and you WILL look fat in clothing and disgusting lmao

Don't listen, just go for what you want, and if you don't like it it's not permanent, you can work towards something else.

they're definitely not as technical as normal cleans but still markedly more technical than ohp/bench/squat/dl

really they're just not that useful for most of the people doing SS, they're not going to drive deadlift progress unless you're a piss poor deadlifter or incredibly explosive otherwise the poundages are too light

Thisdesu

Was athlete did power cleans all the time

Now I still do them but I've done probably 10,000 in my life so muh form is god tier. Most people do it like shit and will just hurt themselves.

Not really, just wear tight fitting clothing and it's obvious you're swole and not fat.

It really, really, doesn't matter. Your lifting career should be many many years, what you do for 3 months of those is basically irrelivent

Rows are easier to learn but train less of your body. They are primarily lat dominant.

Power cleans will train a lot of your body, including your back, your traps, and your legs.

So can I just row instead of power clean and I'll still get big?

How about neither? The average gym goer can get a decent strength base with just phase 1 and chin-ups:

Squat 3 x 5
Bench/Press 3 x 5
Deadlift 1 x 5
Chin-ups 1 x Failure

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ive stopped doing any weightlifting type movement , found they didn't add much except getting better at the movement. Might be beneficial if you're an athlete.
Rows are the better of the 2 if you're just trying to get swole and strong. Particularly for maintaining shoulder health, just doing pull ups for your back wont cut it, you need a horizontal pull.
Any strength benefits of power cleans can be gotten elsewhere

Rip argument for PC is that it makes your deadlift more explosive which helps with a slow grinding deadlift. He made a row video stating that it's hard to do and coach correctly as a novice. I remember a while back his programming guy said he if had to choose a replacement for cleans he would use chin ups.

chin ups are already in the program, and PCs don't drive the deadlift unless you're a really bad deadlifter and amazing at PCs

the difference in poundages used is just going to be fucking massive

So like this?

Squat 3x5
OHP 3x5
Deadlift 1x5 / Chin-Up 3x5

Squat 3x5
Bench Press 3x5
Chin-Up 3x5

Yeah you can do chin ups for 3 set between 5 to 8 reps but stay consistent. When unweighted feels easy start adding weight but don't expect a clear linear progression.

>He made a row video stating that it's hard to do and coach correctly as a novice.
It's too hard to teach someone new to hold their back and hips steady while pulling a bar to their core, and yet you teach novices how to their back and hips steady while pulling a bar up for a deadlift as a phase 1 exercise. Rip is completely full of shit or incompetant.

>doubling down on chin-ups
Man there will be whole weeks where you do only chin-ups. Just do deadlift 1x5 / rows 3x5.

I do cable rows instead, no spinal damage like rows :^)

Row with cable, back like cable. Row with iron, back like iron.

Forgot to add to this post. Why am I still skinnyfat and building 0 muscle? I can't figure out why

shut the fuck up cunt im 5"6 and this looks fine on a manlet like me, stop being a fucking faggot

yes, because your choice in row variants is going to make or break your physique and not vastly more important factors like consistency, diet, genetics, staying injury-free, etc

fucking dyel retards

No fucking clue since they are different movements for differente goals.
Personally I do both since I don't think one has anything at all to do with the other.
The arguement should be something like deadlifting/squats vs cleans, and I think Bill Starr 5x5, the program that predates SS and SL was heavily based around power cleans.

only asians do power cleans
/thread

You're the guy who believes leg press will give you big legs.

Me too user, let's do it together
(no homo)

Do both because they are so not the same movement

both are good, I think Rip was just annoyed with people replacing the cleans because 'they're too hard' and shit. They serve different purposes

Why wouldn't you want to add some power conditioning to your training?
It's probably the most important neuromuscular thing you will be doing.

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>are barbell rows really that useless
Yes, they're not a good basic "hit everything well" exercise for a novice. Do cable rows or dumbbell rows, whatever, AFTER you do power cleans or some variation of pullup or whatever.

If you're a novice you don't NEED to do them because dumbbells/cables offer enough loading, and you will probably fuck up the barbell row form in some manner. And replacing a big basic exercise like a power clean with rows is like replacing a deadlift with shrugs. Why not do shrugs after deads, it won't kill you.

pendlay rows are easier on your lower back than more upright rows