Are deadlifts and heavy back squats worth the risk if you aren't powerlifting?

I would rather do Bulgarians, Romanians, and Hip Thrusters. I'll sumo deadlift sooner than I would back squat. If I ever back squatted, it would be on a box and only once per week.

I snapped my shit up doing heavy deads. No matter how strong you get there will always be somebody stronger and its pointless unless you have a specific reason you need to be that strong.

I do front squats now and double overhand strict deadlifts. My theory is if your grip gives then you shouldnt push past that by changing your grip to compensate. Never go to failure

That's because top level lifters usually use steroids and push their bodies to unnatural extremes. Even in the case of an elite natural lifter, nobody deadlifts 800 lbs by accident, to which end deadlifting 4 plates with proper form could only benefit you.

In terms of hypertrophy, very few things are heavier, and thus maximize type 2 fibers, like a deadlift. In terms squatting, there aren't any better leg exercises but there are a couple of great variations depending on your needs. Get to them, OP.

I don't really agree with the grip. But I think if you need to wear a belt to push more wieght then you've gone to far. Work your core and back, don't slap a belt on.

if you want to avoid snapping your back just look for alternatives with a more vertical back angle, like the high bar squat, front squat and trap bar deadlift, box deadlift or romanian deadlift. Also keep your back strong with back extensions.

wearing a belt lets you activate your abs harder, thus working them harder

Deadlift is overrated for developing mass. Back squats are great but a very efficient front squater will usually have a better upper back than a primarily back squatter.

If you want a lower risk way of developing total body strength, load a trap bar with like 70% of what you can max and then lift it and do 5x30 foot farmers walks with the weight. Use straps if you can't grip it. Easy.

What's a good beginner's routine that includes front squats and romanian deads? Literally every other routine makes you do conventional deads and back squats

Absolutely not. Replace deadlifts with RDL + rack pulls and back squats with front squats or leg press.

just switch them out, you tard.

i think higher rep is better like 8-10 for front squats so adjust accordingly. it's a more difficult lift so there's also that.

>Deadlift is overrated for developing mass

Wana know how I know you don't lift?

What exercise can you do for lower back if not deads?

For people who have very stressful, physical jobs it's silly to do HEAVY squats and deadlifts. Your CNS will be ded all the time unless you roid and your quality of life will be shit.

There is no reason to not do low/medium weight squats and deadlifts if you are injury-free. They're perfect exercises just like dips and pullups/chinups.

Squats and deadlifts helped me a ton with sports. I got faster and was able to jump higher. Being able to move tons of weight made going to the gym fun, and being strong gave me confidence. I love them both

Don't do high rep front squats

>high rep
>8-10

what? lifting in the 8-10 ensures you aren't ego lifting and reserving your one way ticket to snapu citu

I don't know man maybe you're just a presumptous fag with more confidence than knowledge?

The people who "get big" from deadlift inevitably squat a ton and do a bunch of accessories like RDLs, hamstring curls, and hypers to overcome how little volume deadlift allows. Deadlift is bottlenecked by the strength of the muscles in your lower back. It's a vanity lift that's slowly being phased out of NFL and track and field weight rooms due to injury risk and programming complexity/recovery problems.

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More likely its been phased out of NFL because its literally a useless lift for a football player.

Thats all very good though, but how much do you deadlift?

>can lift more weight
>not the best
pick one. You get stronger by lifting heavier.

So would this be ok? It doesn't have conventional deads

Workout A
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Pendlay Rows 3x8
Face Pulls 3x10
Calf raises 2x15/Tricep pressdowns 2x10 Superset

Workout B
Front Squat 3x5
Overhead Press 3x5
Romanian Deadlift 3x8
Lat Pulldowns 3x8 (any grip)
Ab work 2x15/Bicep curls 2x10 Superset

Isn't most strongman training built around deadlifting volume?

My current lifts are
>365lb FS, 285lb hangclean, 650lb knee level rack pull,
No idea how much I deadlift anymore because I've had too many injuries over the years to do it. Haven't deadlifted since doing shot put in college.

Ok so you're weak.

Makes sense that you spout the Medhi Stronglifts crap that 'you can't do deadlift volume'

They do it because the comps call for it. But I wouldn't call strongman deadlift programming a very safe way to be strong or big.

I can't lift really heavy weights like I did in college because I ruined my back deadlifting weights in college.

Let me ask you strong guy: how much can you deadlift?

Squat: 380kg
Bench: 227.5kg
Deadlift: 320kg

So 838/501/705

And you mean you ruined your back deadlifting like a retard, because the deadlift is perfectly safe for your spine

>not wanting to lift heavy shit of the ground

whats the point

Probably hade some Donald duck back going on while deadlfiting super heavy lol

Your literally just picking shit off the ground. Movements that people do all the time since the beginning of mankind. But people still manage to hurt themselves by picking up something thats not even heavy because because of shit form and having the muscle flexibility of a wooden plank.

>Guy who squats 9 fucking plates on Jow Forums.

My ass. Vid or it didn't happen.

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I have lordosis in my lower back. Should i be doing heavy deadlifts?

Deadlifted under the supervision of a strength and conditioning coach at a D1 school. My old program has stopped using heavy deadlifts partially out of concerns about injury and partially because there are better ways to build mass.

I'm sure there are some people who have proportions that allow them to deadlift fine. These people should deadlift. But it's not really essential outside of sports where it is competed.

What risk? Competitive powerlifting has an extremely low risk. Anybody asking this kind of questions isn't going to push hard like a competitive powerlifter. Just don't be stupid, and do moderate intensity, high-ish volume squatting with good technique.

Of course there's a non-zero chance you injure yourself, but the risk of injury is so much less than something like soccer that you'd be a pussy/insane person to worry about it. Would you avoid playing soccer because the risk isn't worth the cardio gains?

idk how you manage to call people out with the dunning-kruger effect, yet say a bunch of obviously incorrect shit and fail to provide credentials/demonstrate expertise yourself.

The people who got big from deadlifting probably squat a tonne to because they also train their squat? unless they don't and then they probably have a shit squat. Have you never met somebody with a good deadlift and a bad squat? People who are big rely on accessory lifts because..their big. It's no different from squatting or benching, or even the oly lifts for that matter.

I have no knowledge of why deads are being phased out of NFL/track, but I have a guess why: A sufficiently strong athlete shouldn't spend finite recovery resources on recovering from heavy deadlifts. They can do bb fluff to maintain size and strength, and spend the rest of their energy on sport practice or some other athletic quality they need. It's not worth it for an NFL player with an 800lb deadlift to spend 16 grueling weeks taking his deadlift to 810lbs when he could spend the time practicing football.

An underweight highschool kid playing football is in a totally different situation. Adding 100lbs to his deadlift wouldn't require a soul-crushing deadlift cycle, and it would seriously benefit his game. Could the kid do only bb fluff to get stronger? Yes, but it would take more time and effort for less results.

idk man deadlifting is one of many events. I'm not saying that serious strongman deadlifting is super safe, but it clearly works/can be done.

Maybe try reading more than the last five posts of the thread before writing a blog.

is me.

If you're not bullshitting, I'm curious: what were your numbers in college, and how did they compare to other athletes at a similar skill level? The JTS guys talk about what I was saying, and Chad complains that he himself made the error of trying to get too strong for shotput, instead of focusing on other qualities.

>Bulgarians and Romanians
Based gypsy lifts

This is my philosophy. I don’t ever plan on going so high that I need a belt. I’m doing it because it activates so many muscles not because I want to be the lord of the gym and mog everyone

instagram.com/p/BgzQXleAZVw/?taken-by=sammeadepl

Personally I always noticed the difference even in how the body looks whenever I stopped squatting or deadlifting for heavy sets of 2-5, they're not a meme for "aesthetics".

dude you're stronger than I'll ever be, but squatting 820 and squatting 820 high in multiply gear are very different things

its a wrestling singlet, retard

theres a deep 376 a few posts down

lol excuse me for thinking that a guy lifting in a monolift, using wraps with spotters in multiply is himself using some sort of gear.

every single physical activity in existence has risks of injury. whats the point of doing anything if you are trying not to get injured at all throughout your life? you either do it because you want to while keeping in mind injuries happen or you just don't do anything at all

>it's easier to push more weight, not cause they're actually the best at anything

Let's be frank here. There's trolling, then there's this reddit-tier shit. Try harder, please. Trolling requires subtlety and maybe a little tact, but it does require some adherence to reality.

Lifting more doesn't make you best!

Really....

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No

Back squats work the exact same muscles at front squats

Romanian deadlifts can be done heavier than conventional because you get the stretch reflex.

Average poster's intelligence

What risk? If you really don't like them, replace them with trap bar lift and front squat.

You should do them for strong kinetic chain so your body can function well as long as possible. There's almost no reason to go for 400 unless you wanna compete or show off. Just try to get to 250 or so for each and do it once a week

Unironically good advice for people who don't care about powerlifting if you replace RDLs with trap bar.

Nice argument fag. Tell me why I'm wrong, even powerlifters would agree.

>8-10 is high-rep
The absolute state of Jow Forums
instagram.com/p/BhURxl1FSwR/?taken-by=danpolta

Front Squat put a stronger emphasis on quads, gutes and upper back and neglect hamstrings. And I want to see you RDL anything even near your DL max

>Back squats work the exact same muscles as a front squat
Idk what your definition if worked is but they are two fundamentally different lifts. You're just being dumb if you think otherwise.

What risk?

No they don't the only significant difference in rack position between front and back squats is thoracic erectors and only as loads approach 90+%. Hamstrings are not a primary mover in any squat bar position. Given enough practice you definitely can RDL more than you can deadlift, most people won't try enough though.

>I just parrot whatever broscience I hear

>Back squats are the same as front

MA is right.

Also, I would argue front squats are more dangerous than back squats.

Leg curls work the part of the hamstrings that does not span the hip joint, but does span the knee joint. Include them
More direct arm and shoulder work, or your presses are gonna lag
RDL right after front squat and before OHP. Deadlift variations and front squats go together like PB and J

So I can just exchange FS for BS with same benefits? I love FS and hate BS. Like the one you're expressing here. Get it? ;)

Still actually interested in an answer though

Mirin. Looked high as Westside, but I couldn't even walk it out, so props.
The fuck is an actual strong person doing on Jow Forums?

>Calls diddlys perfectly safe
>has a video further down where he fucks his body up doing diddlys
lmao

Deadlifts and squats are perfectly fine as long as you realize that you don't have to train to be the absolutely biggest person in the gym. Stay at a safe pl8 number and don't ego lift. If you can't pull a lift safely, don't "try harder". There's a reason most people that really fuck their shit up are young men and that's because young men are fucking retards in the gym.

You can do that if you want. You won't be able to immediately jump under significantly heavier loads if you go back to back squatting; it'll take some time to get used to but you can do it with no ill effects.

did you record this with a fucking VHS camcorder and then convert to 140p and then upload? jesus fucking christ.

So increasing my FS will not automatically increase my BS although it's basically the same exercise? Kind of rustles my jimmies tbqhwu m80.

Btw, still calling bullshit on RDL > DL. A RDL is not a tng DL

Increasing your BS will not automatically increase your FS either.

It will make you strong enough to immediately move more weight, but to actually move as much as you can you have to be accustomed to the weight.

Say you stop back squatting for 18 months. You increase your front squat 1rm in that time by 80kg. You'll immediately have the strength and musculature required to move significantly more weight for your back squat, but you won't be able to move as much as you possibly can for a variable period of time where you get accustomed to moving heavier loads.

It most certainly can, if you can load the hamstrings properly and maximize your stretch reflex you can RDL more than you can DL.

Maybe it's because they are a different movement and do not train the same muscles in the same emphasis. What do you think?

Pin bench will not automatically make your bench go up either.

Are you trolling or thick?

Then why is it that no on has ever RDLed more than they DL?

Not entirely sure desu. Eg increasing your cgbp directly increases your Bench

cgbp will not directly increase your bench in all circumstances either.

Is fs + deadlift together enough to improve back squat? I cant back squat my rack is oddly narrow

>Front squats
They're a meme. Oly lifters, the strongest dudes around in the clean and consequently in the front squat, all train at least 75% of the time high bar back squats.

Thank you. Unfortunately I workout at home and I don't have access to a leg curl machine. As for arm and shoulder work, would 3x10 lateral raise be okay?

They're by far the most fun squat variation and for me that's all that matters

Because nobody fucking cares about how much you can RDL lol.

Only 2 mentions of rack pulls

cmon fit....

Who cares, I'm not an Olympic weightlifter.

>Squat more than he deadlift
Equipped spotted

The 380 is with wraps, I think he's done like 340 with just sleeves. Sam is just a bicc boi

Mogged

This is bad trolling. If you could go heavier than you'd see people repping their max deadlift as assistance, just like with rack pulls

You can do nordic curls at home
>As for arm and shoulder work, would 3x10 lateral raise be okay?
That's fine for shoulders in a minimalist routine. With arms, just bro out hard on bicep curls and tricep extensions every workout. Your arms can handle it

Lmao this thread is full of pussies trying to justify their continuous isolation bullshit lifts.
If you dont deadlift and squat, you don't really lift. As for safety, learn correct form instead of shit form ego lifting and fucking your back up, retards.

There is no risk
pathetic dyels

oy u limey git, thats some good fuckin lifts u got there mang keep taht shit up

Front squats are significantly safer than back squats on regular progression. Some people manage to pinch themselves out, but that's a lot more likely with cleans when you misposition the bar on the catch. Front squats are easier to bail, keep the spine more upright, and you generally squat less in the FS.

FS is literally not a different movement... The reason it may not transfer over to back squat immediately is because the load is likely somewhat lower, or maybe you are not squatting sufficiently deep in the front squat. Unless you have painfully weak vastus medialis or just a noob, the front squat doesn't commonly transfer over that well to the back squat if you already back squat. The converse can be true as well. What I'm getting at is that the reason lifts can be more or less impactful on other exercise's progression even though they train the same areas is because of the bottleneck surface area. Front squats focus the bottleneck on your lumbar tension and your quads, whereas commonly beginners get weakly bottlenecked by multiple areas like the lumbar, lower back, hips, and quads.

>Front squats are significantly safer than back squats on regular progression
>source: my ass

>back squats are safer than front squats on regular progression
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11194098
Lower compressive stress on the knee joint and about the same shear stress, again, safer, and with lighter load it would be even safer.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/19002072/
Squatting less weight for similar EMG activation. This is obviously safer.

And also stating the obvious, bailing is also easier on the front squat, especially at maximum depth where there's more torso lean.