Vegans are all sickly and we-

His most recent squat PR was done while already vegan for a couple years and off cycle
Stop spreading lies

Attached: phoenix-wright-objection[1].jpg (550x404, 31K)

>have less acne
OP's pic proves otherwise. Look at his shoulders and face. Though, its obvious those are caused from his steroid use.

Arnold is not vegan. He just eats meat only mondays

>on average
with or without accounting for the larger amount of fatties that are omnivore?

>have less acne
ya clearly

>and off cycle

I hope you aren't this retarded, also it does not mean shit if his latest PR was done while vegan. He lifted for years while eating meat, hence my post. You added nothing to it.

He is one of my favorite lifters, but even i'm not that stupid.

>it does not mean shit if his latest PR was done while vegan.
You implied that his growth as an athlete is due to his meat consumption and that meat eaters are better athletes than vegans, and I proved you wrong
The fact is that vegan clarence is stronger than meat clarence

>You implied that his growth as an athlete is due to his meat consumption

Because it is, since he lifted for his whole lifting career while eating meat, and already built that foundation and strength on a meat diet.

Just stop trying to sound smart, you're a complete and utter dumb cunt.

>Because it is
It isn't. Going from 300 to 302 kg is harder than going from 100 to 102.
Not that you'd know.
>already built that foundation and strength on a meat diet
He literally didn't, meat clarence never squatted 302
Last time I fall for your low quality bait btw, no more (You)'s for you

>Being this deluded
>Cant admit when he is wrong

Sage.

Not the other user, it's not impossible but it's just less efficient. Protein quality is a thing, and animal products have a superior aminoacid profile when it comes to building muscle, since every animal protein has a lot of leucine in it, which is the primary aminoacid to trigger muscle growth (protein synthesis).

To give a practical example, in order to maximize protein synthesis with rice protein vs with whey, you would have to eat double the rice protein in order to get to your peak, because the aminoacid profile is inferior. And this is with concentrated proteins, when you go to whole foods, like 30g of protein from lentils vs 30g of protein from chicken breasts, the difference gets even bigger.

Source: Your ass

tfw you will never have the audacity to dress however you want

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This is sort of true, technically, but far less of a hurdle than you make it out to be. It can be resolved simply by combining different dishes to get a complete amino profile. Traditional plant-based foods already do this, hence beans & rice, beans & maize, chickpeas & tahini, etc. combinations being common. Only a complete fool would eat rice protein alone; usually it is combined with pea protein for a complete animo profile.

Fact is that if you hit your macros and lift heavy, you will gain muscle. There is no way that this is less true if one doesn't eat animal products: there is nothing supernatural about meat, blood magic is not real. Now actually hitting those macros may require more planning, and one might have to take some supplements of overshoot (eating 1.2x of plant-based protein instead of 1x of animal-based or whatever), though Scooby presents here some research that says the latter is not needed:

youtube.com/watch?v=MeFbC8rzyRY

But two diets identical in terms of absorbed macro- and micronutrients will, given the same work-out program and genetics, produce at the very least SIMILAR results, regardless of source of nutrients. Anyone who says differently is just full of shit and the burden of proof would be on them to prove how this could possibly work otherwise.

Now, again, it's an different thing to claim that actually getting the same absorbed macro- and micronutrients is more inconventient or harder. It is, I admit that, and does require more planning. But I don't mind carefully planning my diet.

A quick google search wouldn't hurt you know

About leucine being the most important amino for prot synthesis:
academic.oup.com/jn/article/136/2/533S/4664398
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16424142
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4304911/
nutritionexpress.com/article index/protein/showarticle.aspx?id=807

Animal vs Plant protein:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26224750
"Recent evidence suggests that the ingestion of the plant-based proteins in soy and wheat results in a lower muscle protein synthetic response when compared with several animal-based proteins. Most plant proteins have a relatively low leucine content, which may further reduce their anabolic properties when compared with animal proteins"

The reason why losing natty status is so divisive is because the number of satellite muscle cells will always be higher after taking hormones. You get that benefit for life.

It's not just macros, that's the thing. If you are not eating enough leucine in every meal, then you won't maximize protein synthesis, simple as that. And the less male, older, less tesosterone, more fat you are, the more leucine you need. Just like excercise

>About leucine being the most important amino for prot synthesis:
That isn't an argument against veganism, plants have all the leucine you want
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26224750
>no methodology, just an abstract
That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence
Here's a better article that is a meta analysis, saying there is no difference between plant and corpse protein source
bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2018/01/18/bjsports-2017-097608

It's common knowledge you fucking imbecile.

Soy and quinoa are examples of plant food with full amino acid levels.

It's just common sense really. If leucine is the most important aminoacid for protein synthesis, and animal protein has the most efficient profile of aminoacids for that matter, then it is the superior source of protein. I'm not saying that you can't do it on a plant based diet, just like I said before, in case of a rice protein, you would need double the amount of rice protein to trigger the same muscle growth just from their leucine profile, and not only you need a bigger dose, but it is also more expensive (it doesn't even exist in my country also).

I'll read the meta analysis later, but the objective of the analysis doesn't even respond to the questions being asked here, since it talks about if protein suplementation aids in muscle growth or not, in which you could say that it is not necessary, but it is more efficient.

Also on that note, if I were to prepare a plant based meal to reach 3g of leucine, using one of the biggest plant based protein rich foods like lentils, I would need 500g of boiled lentils to reach 3g, which I could easily get with 3-4 whole eggs and a toast. So yeah you could reach 3g of course, but I don't have the appetite nor the time to eat those kinds of meals for the same or worse effect. It's like saying, yeah you can bulk on just watermelons, but how realistic is to eat 4000 calories in watermelons? It would be a massive amount of food.

vegans btfo eternally

True, of course - if one wants to match the results of an ideal omni diet with a vegan diet, one must replicate all aspects, including amino acids. But like I pointed out, it's easy to get with some planning. Spinach, sunflower seeds, peas and beans are great sources, and as points out soy and quinoa also have all amino acids.

Not to mention that you can supplement leucine if need be - either on it's own or as part of BCAA:s.

>eats 160g of low leucine poor quality protein with poor digestability a day as a 94-105kg elite lifter
>doesn't matter because his protein sensitivity is vastly improved from his artificially elevated male steroids
>which doesn't even matter in itself due to the fact he has artificially elevated muscle protein synthesis constantly throughout the day/week

Any natural who hopped on his diet would shrink after years of training and eating a meat based diet, and that's the fucking truth.

Are you really a vegan if you're eating trenbalogne sandwiches for lunch everyday?

>calls me a "fucking imbecile"
>agrees with me on the next line
???
>It's just common sense really.
Is it? Read on...
>you would need double the amount of rice protein to trigger the same muscle growth just from their leucine profile, and not only you need a bigger dose,
You're making 2 mistakes here
1) You are assuming that all animal protein is at least double in leucine content compared to rice protein, which it absolutely isn't, pic related
2) you are assuming that the "leucine content" factor trumps all other factors in terms of muscle growth, which also isn't true
>I'll read the meta analysis later, but the objective of the analysis doesn't even respond to the questions being asked here, since it talks about if protein suplementation aids in muscle growth or not, in which you could say that it is not necessary
Yeah, that's just the title. The tldr is that whether you eat animals or not, you don't need protein supplements, even if you train for strength. That means that even cheap old peas and rice or kidney beans and corn build the same muscle as chicken or whey (obviously given that in both cases the 0.75 grams protein per lb of bodyweight rule is maintained, and same calories also too)
>but it is more efficient.
I think you mean "convenient"

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Not even close
Cope

That's what's funny about some vegans, they point out people that are more sensitive to protein because they use steroids, to whom the aminoacid profiles of foods don't affect a lot since they are so sensitive to protein synthesis from the elevated testosterone. They could eat a lot less protein than your average folk and still make gains.

The lack of clarence lifts in this thread is outrageous to say the least.
youtube.com/watch?v=JgixW_RIkjQ

2) you are assuming that the "leucine content" factor trumps all other factors in terms of muscle growth, which also isn't true

Indeed it is not the only factor, but taking a look at animal models clearly tells you that animals are always the biggest when they consume animal protein, as in most muscular and the least fat.
Egg/Whey beat any other protein EVEN WHEN LEUCINE IS equated, because egg and whey are metabolized more efficiently.
Whey itself actaully promotes fat loss and muscle growth in and of itself

I'm not that guy you're replying btw, just saying.
>convenient
No lad, animal based proteins are litearlly digested and metabolized faster and less ends up being wasted because you don't have to cope with anti nutrients and fiber binding into some amino acids that end up being excreted through your feces.
Eat a big steak, eat nothing else for the next day.
You won't shit anything out, almost nothing is wasted except maybe some oils draining through your colon.

Yes, on AVERAGE animal protein has more leucine. But you are just assuming away vegan sources of it, including supplements. There is zero reason for me not to eat more leucine-rich vegan foods and get the same amount as you do.

And you point out that's hard using just ordinary food, which I'll grant is half-true eating lentils (though I DID eat half a kilo today, git good, skelly), but lentils aren't the best source. Soybeans give you around 6 grams per cup, and peanut butter gives you almost 4grams for 100g. Tofu doesn’t have much at all, less than 1g per 100g, but I’ll usually eat 250g at least in a sitting.
You also keep pretending that protein powders and BCAA:s don't exist.

You don't want to be vegan, cool. But don't make it out to be this insurmountable task when all it requires is some more planning.

Yes, indeed. Meat-eaters have gone from saying “IMPOSSIBLE CANNOT BE DONE” to “it’s slightly more difficult to get this particular amino acid without supplements or careful planning”. You’re totally winning and not losing ground at all!

A lot of these low protein eating fake natty vegan mother fuckers on youtube benefit from that same mechanism.
It's the same thing that causes older men to be less sensitive and requiring more protein to sustain their muscle.

If you see any vegan fuckhead claiming he eats less than 100g of protein a day and he looks like a bodybuilder you know he's on shit.

I see no reason not to go 150g+ as a vegan, it ain't that hard.

Vegans have a lower sperm count than non vegans:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/35465
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257705/

Vegans have lower testosterone than non vegans:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1435181
m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/42/1/127.abstract
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/159772
m.jap.physiology.org/content/82/1/49

Veganism causes loss of libido and erectile dysfunction:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21353476

Checking.

>Every single example of a strong vegan person is on roids
rly activates my almonds

Yet a bunch of them eat well below that and have constant videos talking about steroid accusations and justifying their insane short term progress.
It's a vegan steroid dealing network mafia, all these mother fuckers basically know each other even if they're living in different countries.

Look up simmnet nutrition, that dude used to eat like 70-90g of protein a day and he is lean and looks like a fucking bodybuilder year around while eating over 500g of carbs, mostly sugar.

Exogenous steroid use also drastically improves insulin sensitivity, meaning that carb tolerance goes the fuck up.

Telling signes of steroid use in vegan youtubers.

Sure, sure. But I personally don't give a shit about youtubers vegan or otherwise. That they're doing shady shit to keep views up is no surprise to me.

I'm saying 150g+ is possible and easy, and I have no idea how you can eat 3000kcal+ and not ACCIDENTALLY get around 130g at least unless you purposefully AVOID protein sources.

Is that clearance in the off season

(you)

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Btw, that's 70-90g of protein of mostly very WEAK protein sources such as vegetables and fruit.

he gets as much leucine in his daily diet as I get in one meal and one snack.

Attached: Untitled.jpg (1920x1080, 481K)

You insist on claiming that leucine is the only thing that matters for muscle growth without evidence, and then post cherrypicked pictures of a cherrypicked person who is very short thus making him look like he may or may not be on steroids, who eats less leucine than you like (i use the word like because you haven't provided evidence that below a certain threshold of leucine consumption you aren't building muscle), and somehow that's an argument?
Here's another point of view that is equally believable:
The dude is natty but photoshops his pictures to look good
or another
Leucine doesn't matter that much and as long as you get more than 3 grams per day you're fine
Also, even the (unsourced!) picture you posted claiming that he eats 70-90 grams of protein is false:
1) he is closer to 100 grams in that picture, above your upper limit (which again, you cherrypicked)
2) he is fucking tiny, the dude is like 1.65 and 65 kg, he doesn't need as much protein as a normal person

What did we learn today? That even with copious amount of cherrypicking and twisting facts, meatcucks still fail to construct a narrative that justifies bacon consumption

whats the point of arguing about individual food choices? just let everyone eat whatever they chose to. I know it's a bait thread and all but really, who cares what the next person eats

>individual
If your food choice is "individual" then surely you don't impose on some other individual's freedom with your food choice, are you?

lmao vegans blown the fuck out forever

It's not the only thing that matters at all, I don't push for this notion and never did.
But if your diet is lacking in leucine you will not get anywhere close your genetic potential as a natty no matter how hard you try.
Diet is what permits growth, if you don't permit growth you are not gonna grow, you can't substitute leucine with fucking sugar like he does, there needs to be a good ammount of it for growth to be noticeable.
You might maintain most of your gains on 6.2g, but this guy has eaten pretty much always the same ammount of protein and leucine, pathetic ammounts really.
So you're saying that I can look just like him eating fucking 240g of sugar a day, over 400g of carbs a day, very little fat and little protein?
No, this guy BUILT UP his body on this diet from skinnyfat to fucking ripped to shreds in 2 years, it's not possible to replicate the same thing on a true natural adult male that is past his fucking early 20's.
I took a full shot from one of his videos with a cronometer nutrient analysis, check his other videos with his whole daily meals analyzed, some days he eats less than 80g of protein total and he even admits it.

Brb eating nothing but 300g of peanut butter, a multi vitamin and 2 oranges, can't wait to get diced and jacked and ripped on 6.2g fucking grams of leucine.

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Another thing to keep in mind is that this is plant protein only, he's eating protein from sources that have garbage biovailability.
His leucine consumption is in reality even lower than it seems.

ha! Called it 146 that guy threads ago (so like, yesterday)

>That guy spends years doing roids and eating meat to build up strength.
>Becomes vegan
>Vegans champion him as an example of insane vegans.

u r dum

HAHA! GREAT JOKE BUD!

>Brb eating nothing but 300g of peanut butter, a multi vitamin and 2 oranges, can't wait to get diced and jacked and ripped on 6.2g fucking grams of leucine.
Don't knock it till you try it ;)
>Another thing to keep in mind is that this is plant protein only, he's eating protein from sources that have garbage biovailability.
>His leucine consumption is in reality even lower than it seems.
SOURCE COLON YOUR ASS PERIOD

>Going vegan for this

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>"studies"
If you weren't retarded you'd realize that studies done with a control group of all meatcucks must be brainlets to post these

is clarence a HAPA?
he looks so ugly lol

Add a couple of scoops of vegan protein and some high-leucine BCAAs to that and it looks fine, if a bit heavy on the carbs and low in fat.

Maybe he does that and just doesn't count it? I don't count my BCAA intake towards my macros.

>Roiding for this

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He eats a vegan diet, he isn't vegan all around

Which means roids, my man