Dairyland Strength

wendler's ripoff of his high school's old lifting program IS shit

>wisconsin method
doing random shitty meme ego lifts and calling it a "method"

Stronger than you though

>overweight
user, I read everything you wrote but you started wrong. Comments like this tells me you think lifting is all about being ottermode.

>hyuh hyuh life is all about bein a powerliftan butterbawll

>alan still cant bench 315 after 10yrs at 250lbs bodyweight

Whats a better program for intermediates besides 5/3/1?

>"squat" 1k lbs to questionable depth from a monolift in an lolfed while /fraud/
>rip off your old high school's lifting program
>fuck you
>pay me

literally just about anything is better than wendler's shit.
the program he ripped off is better. bfs biggerfasterstronger.
the bridge programs from barbell medicine.
any of the h-l-m layouts from practical programming 3rd edition
any of the split programs from practical programming including the split texas method versions
any of the high school or college programs based on boyd epley's splits, like husker power

>i could make a video deadlifting/squatting/benching but i dont want to
the dude has many videos doing variations similar to each of those exercises. do you really think he literally cannot deadlift at all when he does oxlifts of 500+ pounds? or when he does deficit deadlifts of 500 pounds?? a deficit deadlift is exactly like a conventional deadlift...but harder lmao
>i could tell you specifically why SS is shit but i don't want to
once again he has many videos on his channel explaining why SS is bad and in fact gets asked in most of his Q&As
>what should you do if youre a novice? uhhhh id have to know more about you to recommend a program
seriously why is this a bad thing? It just shows he's a responsible coach who doesn't just willy nilly recommend programs if they won't suit you. just applying generic shit to literally everyone is a recipe for disaster.

forgot to mention that "squat" to laughable depth was done in multi-ply gear, too. lel

>the program he ripped off is better. bfs biggerfasterstronger.

It's better then SS by every metric as well.

>meme versions
if he's so fucking strong, do a lift in competition form with a competition bar so we can see exactly what he's doing.
or better yet, do it in competition so we know there aren't any bands or fake plates used
>ss h8
unironically one of the best beginner programs ever
>muh everybody is a special snowflake
yeah if you have two arms and two legs and a head, just do a generic beginner program aimed for a generic goal
pretty much nobody needs special shit until they're past intermediate stages and doing lots of generic work is how you identify what your needs are

i like bfs a lot but it's an intermediate weightroom program, and ss is a beginner program. the proper comparison would be to compare ss to bfs' "readiness program."
the integration of plyometrics, sprints, agility, and conditioning make bfs a total program that is superior to most "out of the box" athletic programs other than some of the epley-inspired stuff like "husker power."
now, just compariing the weightroom portion of bfs to ss, i'd say that bfs has advantages in motivation (the breaking of various rep records) and variation (the four-week rotation of rep ranges, the variation of lifts used) but ss is still pretty good, if you adapt the progression and maybe add a rep range rotation for intermediates.
a better weightroom to weightroom comparison would be bfs' weightroom program to some of the athletic-oriented h-l-m programs from practical programming.

SS isn't for complete beginners either.
It's a poor introduction to basic fitness and lifting and creates a whole host of problems and thought processes that will lead to a short painful love affair with the barbell.

Lol you are the embodiement of everything wrong with fitness today. SS has a lot of issues which can be deduced by the consistently mediocre strength it produces. Most people do need tailored programs, especially if they lift for another sport but nah of course a basketballer, a cyclist and an MMA fighter should all do the exact same lifts xDDD. Finally if you know anything about exercise you’d know that an ox lift is an extremely difficult deadlift variation and here is JJ smoking Alan’s conventional 1RM youtu.be/VVBtiQq67Jc. If someone can oxlift a weight add 50-100 pounds and that would be their deadlift 1RM. B-but how could Alan lose to JJ when Alan teaches SS, le best novice program ever?????

>the dude has many videos doing variations similar to each of those exercises. do you really think he literally cannot deadlift at all when he does oxlifts of 500+ pounds? or when he does deficit deadlifts of 500 pounds?? a deficit deadlift is exactly like a conventional deadlift...but harder lmao

I don't think he can't do them, I think it's cunty that he pretends the reason he won't mog thrall with a simple vid is that he doesn't want to.

>once again he has many videos on his channel explaining why SS is bad and in fact gets asked in most of his Q&As

its not enough to say something like "1x5 deadlift 1-2 times a week isn't enough volume" he should say what should be done instead

>seriously why is this a bad thing? It just shows he's a responsible coach who doesn't just willy nilly recommend programs if they won't suit you. just applying generic shit to literally everyone is a recipe for disaster.

Tens of thousands of people use novice cookie cutter programs to become stronger and more acquainted with a barbell. That's a disaster?

Literally who?

>hyuh hyuh life is all about....
You're still wrong. I never meant that. It's about being lean, man.

and Alan is lean right?

FOH

>his most viewed videos are about him talking about other channels
youtube.com/watch?v=so0fwMNzLeY

lel keep sucking his nuttsack online, faggot, maybe he'll notice someday and condescend to stick his dick up your ass for real. maybe.

>>le reddit

Most of the time. Note that he does strongman.

>FOH
...., pls.

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>I don't think he can't do them, I think it's cunty that he pretends the reason he won't mog thrall with a simple vid is that he doesn't want to.
I agree he should just fuckin destroy thrall by taking one day out of his training to do a deadlift 1RM
>its not enough to say something like "1x5 deadlift 1-2 times a week isn't enough volume" he should say what should be done instead
He has videos explaining what he thinks an ideal novice program should look like (focus on mastery of one exercise at a time, focus on developing front squats above back squats etc)
>Tens of thousands of people use novice cookie cutter programs to become stronger and more acquainted with a barbell. That's a disaster?
many people do SS and get stronger, however not in the most optimal ways. I know from experience that many people who do SS suffer an injury fairly early in training, usually to do with back or knees. Many people become intermediates with extremely weak quads in comparison to very strong hammies which cause problems down the line (watch a barbell brigade video and listen to Bart's endless complaints about his weak quads). Many people end up fairly adept at the low bar squat but comparatively suck at the deadlift and find it to be a sticking point. this is all a direct result of the exercises SS values above others and the volume of each exercise. With some simple tweaks SS could be a much better novice program.

>doing strongman but not actually being a strong man

ctfu

show me the novice program vid?

youtube.com/watch?v=opu9FSRvcq0&t=8s
youtube.com/watch?v=H3lBKdT_q-4
these are the most direct videos on the topic but he also gives advice in his Q&As. I can't be fucked to find those times because those vids are an hour long but yeah you get the idea

lol nice rebuttal of my points you brainlet faggot. typical rippetoe acolyte, resorting to non-arguments when your pwecious pwogwam gets criticised.

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I bet you're very strong, man. Fuck, yeah, you can bench 350kg easily.
Even better: you're strong AND ottermode.

Fuck, I'm jelly. Jelly of your strength and your use of acronyms.

Keep those gainz up, bro.

neither of those videos delineate a novice program... he's not wrong or anything those just... aren't programs

yeah ive also been training for 10 years and it's my job to train so that explains why im a huge fatass who can't even bench 3 pl8 lmao

your "triggered thrall fanboy" routine is great tho

dude he has said many times that novices need to have programs tailored for them. he's not just gonna give out specific rep ranges and number of days per week etc. you said earlier "he should say what should be done instead" and that's what he's doing. he's telling you what exercises you should do. it's not a 'program' in the sense of SS or SL but it is a 'program' of exercises to complete before moving onto the next.

>SS sucks

>ok mister jj what should i do instead?

>lol idk give me shekels and we'll see

k den

>guy films his funny lifts and happens to do one on one personal training in one gym in wisconsin
>doesn’t believe in universal programs which he explains why with perfect clarity
>doesn’t shill ebooks or programs for 50 shekels
>doesn’t offer online coaching
>people continually ask him what should a novice do anyway
>dude still tells you what to do in a video. gives you an indication of what exercises to focus on and when you should move onto the next one
>OMFG WHY DIDN’T HE PROVIDE THE OPTIMUM REP RANGES AND WHAT TIME OF DAY I SHOULD TRAIN AND HOW LONG I SHOULD REST BETWEEN SETS AND WHEN I SHOULD DRINK WATER AND SHOULD I DO 4 DAYS A WEEK OR 5????
what the fuck do you want from this nigga

>what the fuck do you want from this nigga

Either:

A) A cookie cutter novice routine that is better than SS

or

B) For him to not say "SS is shit" without providing a better alternative

or even

C) to suggest helpful tweaks to SS that he thinks would make it a better program

He has done c) already. He said in a video people could improve on ss by increasing deadlift frequency, doing more high-bar and front squats and ditching the power cleans

>learn 3 types of squat at the same time
>don't do power cleans, you wouldn't want to accidentally become athletic

That isn't really a tweak. That's almost an entirely different program.

Also he missed that SS does start out with deadlifting every session. It just doesn't keep it the whole way through.

Alan is sticking to something hes good at and doing it well.

I have not seen any of this other guy, but creating a youtube for drama sounds hilarious.

Sorry I meant replacing low bar with back squats OR front squats. As for power cleans he points out that it’s a fairly complex movement for a novice and it’s stupid that rippetits thinks a fucking barbell row is too complex but a power clean is fine

Goddamn dude how about you watch his videos if your so interested. I’m getting tired of repeating shit this guy said in a video once, I’m probably doing JJ a disservice and getting shit wrong. Watch one of his many videos on SS and thrill and make up your own mind

>power cleans make you athletic
full retard. power cleans express rate of force production. if you have shit RFP, your power clean will be bad and it will contribute NOTHING to your deadlift.
not to mention the power clean, while arguably one of the simpler variations of the olympic lifts, is still very technical - moreso than a squat or deadlift- and really should be coached, not learned independently. it's not to say that novices cannot learn it independently, but they are so much more likely to screw up on their own than if they're coached through it.
they aren't especially good deadlift developers either. the positions don't have the best carryover and, again, if the lifter can't power clean enough to really contribute to their deadlift, it won't likely help the deadlift very much.
light DL variations like SLDL or RDL would be more appropriate for unspecialized beginners than a power clean.

You don't become athletic by doing a fucking complex movement that has the greatest potential to fuck your everything up if done wrong.

You become athletic through calisthenics mobility training and being fucking athletic.

Powercleans is something that the athletes do when they are already athletic and just want a bit of an edge.

the joint angles in a clean to produce the explosive movement is similar to the joint angles in jumps and COD ability.

That means they do have a carry over to jumping and COD ability.

lel, stay slow, morons.

you can learn to clean and snatch in a day from videos. no, not perfect technique to get every ounce of lift on a platform, but well enough to be safe and to get all the benefits of using the lifts.
cal strength has a great set of vids on the progression with glenn pendlay narrating.
the russians used to teach adolescent kids each movement in four sessions apiece. high box, low box, full power + squat, full snatch, all while learning squat and bench and snatch pulls. then the second week learn the jerk both power and split and the front squat. third week, teach the clean, same progressions. by the end of the first month they're doing full lifts. you can see this in "training of the weightlifter" text.
anybody that thinks they're "too complex" is a retard that shouldn't be listened to for any kind of training advice.

The Russian coaches had one major advantage there: They were working with kids coming out of the Russian talent system, which meant they'd been active and doing athletic shit for a long time.

Compare that to the average 4channer that's going to try and un-fuck decades of physical neglect with a saved Starting Strength infographic. It's not a super complex movement but most people diving in can't be trusted not to fuck up a bicep curl.

>what should you do if youre a novice?
He talked about this in his video with novice he will learn how to move. Goblet squats, split-squats, push ups and etc...

>the program he ripped off is better
Arguments? Because it's not.

How long until our boy Hemmingway starts sniping these faggots down?

youtube.com/watch?v=vyFN-4jhEsI

Just look at this

He benches 360

there is literally a fake SS program people critique as bad, the same people who say SS is bad always ALWAYS talk about the fake SS program and claim they read the book, but at the same time say SS has no accessories

he doesn't need an argument, just to sprout that something popular is bad in an edgy way

>when you're not actually strong so do weird shit to make your mediocre strength look impressive
youtube.com/watch?v=BJaAsvAAlhk

>"Alan thrall is weak!"
>doesn't do a single standard lift so he can't be compared to anybody else
>"SS is bad!"
>can't name a good program
>"this guy's advice is bad!"
>can't say why it's bad or give good advice
>"Alan can only bench 315!"
>315 is apparently super common in gyms
>Alan can bench over 345 natty
>not a single video of him benching
>"he was doing pause deadlifts with 400 lol weak!"
>not a single video of himself deadlifting or pause deadlifting

Alan isn't as strong as the typical guy as Supertraining, on over a gram of 3 different roids, but he's stronger than most natty powerlifters and definately stronger than the vast majority of lifters. And he's stronger than Dairyland, or else Dairyland would do s/b/d all stronger than Alan's numbers. But he won't becasue he's not as strong as he pretends to be doing "odd lifts"

>RPE
>for evermediates
haha ok.
5/3/1 is great. Read the goddamn book though idiots. Do 50 reps of upper back per session, do FSL, do Joker Sets, do BBB. Nobody got big without volume, nobody got big without accessories.

Stop shilling your channel nigger
Sage

BBB vs FSL 3x5

I already do 11 sets of each major lift. 1x5 of the bar, the 3 warm up sets, 3 working sets, 1 heavy single, then 3x5 of my first working set

It's not a "vs." you fucking brainlet. There's a shitton of templates, you stall on one you start the other while still staying true to fundamentals of the program. For now I'm doing 1 set FSL AMRAP Rest Pause. After 6 weeks I'll switch to Joker Sets. Maybe later do BBB. Maybe combine them.

please tell me more about your 5/3/1, im running intensity 2 except the squatx5 and deadliftx3 day i split into two days and instead of a rest day i just don't do accessories on these two days

i'll stick to my current program for a while, it's gone so well, i have seriously never been stronger in my life and I feel GOOD training like this

>Thinks hypocrisy is a valid form of argument

Go bench your 225 and think you're hot shit @350 bw

Hi Alan

bfs bigger faster stronger is a program that's been around since 1976 and wendler lifted using it when playing football, it's used by thousands of high schools and hundreds of colleges nationwide
weeks go 3x3, 5x5 (3x5 if you are short on time), 5-4-3-2-1 (5-3-1 if short on time), and 10-8-6 (4-4-2 for the clean and deadlift), last set is always amrap
standard bfs doesn't use percentages it uses a logbook and you chase rep records or total weight used record, doing it this way enables real autoregulation from set to set via weight selection
they sell coaching tools that use aggressive percentages for the main lifts (78%, 82%, 86% for 3x5) with a real tested 1rm for the training max
they use 3x/week mwf two main lifts a day, usually squat and bench, clean and deadlift, and then squat and bench variants on the third day like box squat or front squat and towel bench (essentially a board bench) or close grip bench on the third workout
then aux lifts usually 2-5 of them usually 2x10
tues and thurs are conditioning and sprints etc.

so you can see that wendler pinched it directly
took the short workout and changed the week order
put a very ball-less south of vag deload week where the higher rep week was
you only do one main lift a day i mean how low-intensity is that?
used some very easy ramping for the sets (65%, 75%, 85% for 3x5) so that the first two sets of the workout are worth far less
used a stupid 90% training max so that the "workout" is two easy warmups and a high-rep burnout set (59%, 68%, 77% for "3x5")
now it's "auxiliary lifts: the program" because when you only do one set of one main lift each day then you need lots of auxiliary volume or you need gimmicks like first set last and joker sets to compensate

do you really think Alan would stray off Leddit?

ah, you're one of those people that didn't read the book. 5/3/1 has a lot of volume. after your main sets you are supposed to do either the first working set for 3x5 or 50% of the max for 5x10 or something simmilar for volume.

Also, starting at 90% is pretty normal for starting a new program.

Is anyone apart from Alan or le milkman posting itt

>many people do SS and get stronger, however not in the most optimal ways. I know from experience that many people who do SS suffer an injury fairly early in training, usually to do with back or knees

If you get injured on SS, you are a GDE. If you don't get to intermediate or above on symmetricstrength, you're not doing the program or you're a GDE.