Starting Strength or Greyskull, which is better?

Agree with what other anons have posted but I’d go with SS just because of all of the forums and material associated with it and it’s good for weak beginners to have a strong father figure like Rippe who just tells them to shut up and do the program. Problem is that too many people think they know better or never learn to push hard.

>there are brainlets on Jow Forums right now who didn't do GZCLP

Attached: 1525450818063.png (644x800, 15K)

>to have a strong father figure like Rippe
Who ironically is childless. Or at least that's what I know of him.

Bullshit aside, just pick one that appeals to you the most, stick to it until you've done 2 resets, then move on to something else. If you can't make a decision for yourself, maybe consider other hobbies or activities.

Do a brosplit faggot.

Reg park's beginners

>Confirmed for never having read SS

Whichever one you do make sure you read the book that it's based on so you actually do it correctly. SS is probably the best for building strength fast, but you might find GSLP more fun or maybe you'll like your physique more at the end. Then again you're choosing a beginner program and making yourself intermediate faster might make you look better 2 years from now than what maybe would get from earlier aesthetic gains.

Would you rather do rows or power cleans? Would you rather do straight sets of 3x5 or 2x5 sets with 1 more set to failure? Do you want to play around with your programming a bit or do you want to do exactly as written since you might fuck it up? Do you have SS coaches/gyms near you (I would have done SS if I had one desu)? Do one that looks enjoyable to you and stick with it.

Read the books. Rip has good advice sometimes and feel free to watch SS videos even if you do GSLP. Rip was the person that convinced me to start eating 3200-3500 cal a day which turned out to be about my maintenance and I had just been eating/drinking poorly before. Keep reading stuff about lifting and watching videos and learn so you know how to git gud. Pick a program do it with intensity, eat right, and sleep. Lift every day you have set as a lifting day don't skip days and don't add days.

Attached: KSicZtU.jpg (1080x1350, 127K)

Which is better for lower body progression? I can already rep 225 on bench and OHP 1pl8 but I've never squatted, deadlift is 315 for fahve

>not doing /ourguy/'s beginner program

Not gonna make it.

Attached: massiveforarmsnew.jpg (900x600, 51K)

>not lifting a barbell straight up in the air and screaming I HAVE THE POWER in planet fitness

The leading advantage that SS has over GS is that training to failure drains your CNS.

You're not supposed to fail on SS. By the time you really cannot do another rep, you should have enough experience to know.

Failing a squat rep at 225 isn't draining. Failing at 365 might take a toll for a few days. Failing a deadlift at 600 lbs because you miscalculated your PR attempt might put you out of business for a week if it was an all out grind to absolute failure.

I've tried training to failure on every set. It takes about a week to crash and burn.

Rip is right. Stress. Recovery. Adaptation. It is the way forward.

As far as accessory work, I do it on Saturdays. I do chins every day, and I focus on grip strength, glute bridges for my deadlift lockout, and cardio on the extra day.

the original is better than the ripoff. always. it works for movies, songs, and fitness programs.

Nigga the 5+ sets on Greyskull are usually only for if you deload....

And even then you're not taking those to failure

Jew

>drains your CNS.

What the fuck is this bro science meme ?! Your CNS can't "drain" you absolute retard.

>Worrying about optimization for people that would get stronger doing jumping jacks is silly.
This.

By that logic everyone should be recommending Bill Starr's program instead.

Surprised you havent heard of it before. You use up your CNS and it gets lower in your body as it drains down to your lower body. So your upper body gets weaker first.

Post

>novice programs
>365 squat / 600lbs dl

is this user retarded?

ICF 5x5 is the best beginner program for aesthetics

the one you will stick with
nice dubs btw, but check my numbers

Attached: chzckzm.jpg (248x248, 11K)

link to the imgur album? its for a friend btw

our lord blaha said that he put accesories for retards to pick his programs and getting stronger on the basics is the ultimate key you mongoloid

Attached: 1482439995-filloncolererisitassticker.png (200x150, 43K)

Whenever you do a 5x5 set do you warm up to a static weight or progressively overload during the set.

So --

95 x 10

105 x 5

125 x 5

135 x 5

145 x 5

or

90 x 10 (warmup)

150 x 5

150 x 5

150 x 5

150 x 5

150 x 5
-------

>discourages
If by that you mean that he cautions people against adding accessories IF that extra work volume will impair their ability to adequately recover for the next workout, then that's true. It's the same reason he cautions against running while going through the novice LP. And it's good advice.

>you can't get tired
>effort doesn't exhaust your force generation potential
Whoa, big if true

>IF I LIFT TOO HEAVY MY CNS WILL DRAIN AND COUNTER ACT THE PERPINDORKULAR FORCE WORKING ON THE Y AXIS IN MY INTERKRANIAL NERVOUS SYSTEM THUS NO GAINS. THAT IS WHY I ONLY DO A POLITE 1X5 ROUTINE EVERY WEEK THEN 5 DAYS OF RECOVERY AND REHAB

Meanwhile

>Yeah bro I did like 6 sets of heavy ass bench today I'm exhausted.
>Damn, you're gonna get huge if you keep this up chad

I feel weird "electricity" feeling around elbows while doing standing press, why?

That's your ki building up. It can be a bit weird at first but if you work on it eventually you'll be able to harness that during lifts and go beyond humanity

buy a balloon and immediatly touch and rub it after and before the set to evacuate the electricity you absolute cretin
have fun with tendonitis

but i dont want it, please tell what i am supposed to do. I am just following ss routine: press, squats and power clean in one day. Bench, squats, deadlift in another, 3 times a week

Glad we're in agreement

Read the book.

Wanna be fat but strong on your lower body?

Do SS

Wanna be strong and somewhat aesthetic?

Do Upper Lower

Wanna be strong and aesthetic?

Do ULxPPL or PHAT

Wanna be just aesthetic?

Do Push Pull Leg

So Bill Starr 5x5 then?

If you seriously think any routine is going to dramatically result in a different body after only six months of lifting, the amount of time you'd spend on them, you obviously have never set foot in a gym. What is your current routine? Height/weight/body fat? Not even asking for pics: outright, don't contribute to the already huge list of anons that give advice despite not actually lifting.

To the OP, shit doesn't matter. SS, if you actually read the book and follow the program, will probably give you slightly higher numbers, especially Squats since I believe you train them more frequently. Regardless, nutrition ad rest are going to be 70% and 20% respectively of the determining factor for the amount of muscle you put on. Expect 10-12 lbs of muscle gain over 6 months if rest and nutrition are spot on.

Everyday a beginner to the gym will ask what program he should do. Jow Forums loves trolling newfags so will usually respond with either Starting Strength or Stronglifts and order them to eat a lot.
A few months will pass and the beginner have stalled and is confused with why he’s not gaining any muscle despite putting so much weight on the bar.

They say he should stick with the program, buy the book, read the fuckin sticky, get a lot of sleep and eat even more food and not to switch programs unless he’s reached “intermediate” lifts 1/2/3/4. The beginner sticks with it and runs it for 1 year, while making very little progress.

Here is where the problem actually lays: Starting Strength and Stronglifts does not actually build muscle.

Both of these programs are based on Bill Starr’s 5×5 that was made for off-season football players that wanted to get their numbers back up in the weight room with as little work as possible.

Attached: PAN20015.jpg (959x963, 108K)

This is exactly the kind of advice given by people who don't lift, but only read about lifting.

But we're not, really. You framed it as Ripp saying "don't do accessories," which is wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. Completely wrong and unsupported by anything written in the book.

If you're one of the people who would benefit from doing accessories, he says do them. That's not what you implied.

and what kind of advice give people who lift?

>complains about anons "trolling newfags" while spitting absolute bullshit
Wow user, you're a champion.

The reason why people recommend SS and other beginner programs is because they help build a solid foundation for other shit. They are also easy to follow and stick to them, they teach you proper form on important exercises and are very effective. The problem with people here like those anons "trolling" and you with your fallacy is that you assume that the fellow should do SS for the rest of his life. SS is a thing you do for a while to prepare your body and get used to an exercise routine, after a while, usually between 4 or 6 months you should consider other routines. Trying to teach a complete newbie to do a full split or any other complex routine will only get them hurt or demotivated, there is a higher chance of the guy just giving up.

>tfw on my 6th week of SS
>gaining overall size, feeling good
just ditch the gomad and you are good to go ffs

Attached: 1525142585023.jpg (576x768, 65K)

based Jow Forums copypasta poster

It really troubles me when a bunch of fat guys such as SStards proud of being shockingly out of condition feel they are qualified to advise people on weight loss and body recomposition and “call out” anyone who does things a little differently and succeed, looking for evidence of their “failure”.

I don’t know if the SS partisans/internet ultras realise the implications of telling a light framed skinny-fat guy to go and get 15-20kg fatter in exchange for a < 5kg muscle gain.

I'm talking blood sugar problems, further hormonal issues, etc. Most of those guys don't give a damn about bloodwork or health. Plenty of them will have ceased lifting by 40 years of age through injury.

Linear progressions take so many forms. The reason why ones like SS are so popular is that they've been created with a view to being inherently "programmable". To me, progression encompasses so many things:

– more reps
– more sets (don't go mad and jump from 2 to 10 sets per exercise next session, though!)
– better *quality* reps by feeling the muscles working more
– increased TUT per set
– same weight/reps/sets but shorter resting periods
– etc…

Weight on a bar is just one way to go about things and the easiest in the early weeks, even if in a caloric deficit. But it comes to an end and there's no reason to push yourself towards injury or obesity when your goal is to look better shirtless and optimise health + hormones + nutrient uptake/partitioning.

SS have left untold amounts of guys disappointed with how they've looked after 3-12 months.

Meanwhile, the "bro" who goes to the gym and does curls, bench, shoulders and a few chin-ups and leg presses totally blows the SS "student" out of the water, getting bigger arms, shoulders, pecs and upper back without that much weight gain. Thus trashing the SS mantra of people being unable to induce significant localised hypertrophy, which skinny fat guys benefit from aesthetically.

Attached: PAN20076.jpg (960x1280, 317K)

Where can I read SS for free? Does anyone have a link?

Also can I do SS with a weekly run? I’m 6’1” and have lifted before but I’m getting back into the swing of things after a 6 year break.

Attached: 4572162.jpg (331x331, 20K)

topkek

Recommend a beginner a program geared toward vanity

>roided out faggot thinks hes an authority on programming for nattys despite jabbing 500mg of test in his ass every week

how about you fuck off. It makes me kind of sad that people will actually take this advice because your drugged up physique is impressive.

Attached: 1526694651926.jpg (781x1000, 109K)

look, I don't know if that's true or not, but listen here anons, if the photo attached is one of a muscular guy with the face hidded, then it's probably a pasta

Attached: goofno.jpg (200x150, 20K)

Convict Conditioning

I think you'll find that it doesn't really matter.

It's good advice. Beginners need way more volume than 3x5, especially for the upper body. SS = centaur mode.

Based user shaking it up, this is good advice everyone. Comprehend it well and take it to heart.

Attached: 1526797952574.jpg (600x558, 50K)

fuck off m8. I got a 3pl8 1RM bench doing 3x5

and near a 2pl8 ohp. Stop meming

SS sucks natty or roider

impressive, from ss?

8 years ago I allowed myself to fall into the trap of the whole “eat big to get big” dogma, while doing a pathetically low volume of lifting such as that found in 3×5 programs.

I do feel that others (especially very young guys who don’t know any lifters IRL) will continue to get suckered into GOMAD whilst doing routines that last no longer than 20-25 minutes and just make them hate what they see in the mirror. I know I did. I was fat, injured, still had skinny arms.

Not to mention, those routines just aren’t fun. They’re billed as “simple” but most of them have some elaborate deload process built in once you plateau that you’d never remember unless you did nothing but read that program day and night.

I wouldn’t blame the likes of Mark Rippetoe for this trend (he has made numerous clarifications, and has never presented himself as other than a strength coach) but rather the army of dedicated SStards that present the program as the answer to all problems and denigrate anyone doing things differently with endless pejoratives and e-statting.

They say:

Wanna get jacked? Do SS. Wanna get aesthetic? Do SS. Wanna bodybuild? Do SS. Wanna become CEO of a Fortune 500 company? Do SS.

Only on the internet does this madness exist! Only on the internet do people think that squatting and eating a 2000 calorie surplus a day will cut bodyfat, build and sculpt your bicep peak and give you boulder shoulders.

I’ve never known or met anyone IRL who has looked well built and lean who built themselves up using a low volume, low rep, CNS wrecker of a routine.
Plenty have done it with bench presses or inclines, pulldowns/pull-ups, curls, shoulder side raises, rope pushdowns and leg presses though, I would also add that diamond push-ups are awesome tricep builders, and high rep OHPs

Amazing how many people out there would get slaughtered on for saying people who want to bodybuild should lift like bodybuilders :)

Attached: PAN20055.png (800x1440, 1.43M)

If you're already muscular and/or have great genes, that's possible (in which case any program will work).
If you're a skinny fuck with bad genes, you're going to stall way sooner.

Dumb dumb.

Try lifting heavy for once in your life and you'll feel fatigued for days afterwards.

>Arguing which beginner LP is better than the other cookie cutter beginner LB

Jesus christ you fucks sure love to overcomplicate things.

jtsstrength.com/articles/2016/09/20/principle-of-sra/

Hey new user here , wich program would you advise me after an icecream from blaha ?

depends on your goals

Your guy is clueless and weak

Oh then maybe look at an intermediate program, or do GSLP with more accessories but don't go to failure on squats and do them every lifting day 3x5 while still doing deadlifts every wednesday (squat first). Just try to squat every time you lift 3x5 increasing the weight 5-10 lbs each session til you stall then reset to 90% of that weight and work back up.

My goal is the 'bearmod' kind of like i know pretty much every 'bear mod' dude are roided but you know i must try everything i can

The first example only is 4x5 though???

Yeah, I spoke too soon. Jow Forums is fucked beyond all hope.

Damn bro starting strength got you huge though

In my opinion and from my own experience Starting Strength is a terrible program for upper body mass.

After getting subpar results for my first 6 months of lifting (came in at a skinnyfat 158lbs at 18% BF, 5ft 11) out of frustration I decided to do GOMAD and Starting Strength.

After 3 months, my squats were at 275 3×5 and deadlifts were at 330lbs x 5 (could do 2×5 at one point), my legs were also only an inch off 30inches, not bad right? WRONG.

I became a fat tub of shit sitting at 215lbs at 25% bodyfat and my bench press was a pathetic 160lbs 3×5, AT OVER 200lbs bodyweight!

My arms barely hit 14 inches, my chest was barely over 40 inches and to top it off I had a 41 inch waist.

5 months of a gruelling diet later and I’m at 175lbs at 17%, my strength’s stayed the same but my arms were barely 13 inches now, not even a bodyweight benchpress and 14 inch arms after a year and half of lifting!

I went on the bodybuilding.com forums ranting but hurr durr I must have been doing something wrong, nope, I damn well followed linear progression just fine, but the volume just wasn’t there to stimulate upper body growth, and no isolation meant it lacked even further.

Upper body volume on SS is laughable, hence the T-Rex and Quadzilla memes online.

Starting Strength is laughed at primarily because it’s a strength peaking program designed to make your body very efficient at moving heavy weight for low volume, but it gets marketed as a mass builder.

SS and SL are highly overrated. I clearly gained more muscle in Upper chest, arms and specially on shoulders after I switched to high rep isolation work.

You will find a lot of imbalance if you strictly only do SS or SL. The founder of stronglifts Mehdi is a complete moron who believes his own bro science.

At least Rippetoe knows something about training. But knows nothing about nutrition and bodybuilding.

Attached: PAN20061.png (1080x1192, 2.25M)

strong pastas my man

Starting Strength

Attached: SS-results.jpg (480x640, 135K)

They are the same shit

Attached: SS.png (550x405, 250K)

SS 6 months -> Texas Method 3 months -> just about anything else

gross

SS is fine, just don't eat the retarded amount of calories rippletits recommends.

How do you know when your done with GSLP? Is it when you hit 1/2/3/4?

I saw this one suggested here a while back, is it any good? Pic related.

Attached: routine.png (1280x720, 303K)

Better than SS? yes

The calorie recommendations are for literal walking skeletons

The AMRAP sets make greyskull way more fun to deload on and less demotivating.

If you wanted to do SS exercise selection with the AMRAPS that'd work pretty good I think.

Bingo.

This is an absolute garbage bro split
>hitting a muscle group once a week
So fucking retarded bro, if you're going for aesthetics look no further than PPLPPLX

Phrak's Greyskull is the more balanced program by far. Don't neglect rows.

Theyre true though

Give the manlet some credit. He pause bench'd 405lbs and sumo dead 585lbs.