So is this vegan on steroids or is he really getting plant protein gains

>And only 5 of them are non-essential, the rest are conditional, which basically means that your body only produces them by breaking down other parts of your body, like muscle, which is the exact opposite of what bodybuilders are trying to do.
Wrong, your body makes the rest by transforming the essential ones
And here's a fun thought experiment
If I eat 150 grams plant protein vs eating 150 grams of animal protein, which amino acids do you think I'm going to get less of with the plants?
>>It would be rare for a source to not have all of the ammino acids in some ratio
>No it's not rare at all, and even the WHO recommends not getting all of your protein from a single plant source for this reason. Jesus fucking Christ, read a book
Nobody said to eat a single plant?

This is perfectly achievable natty. And I think Jow Forums underestimates vegan diets. Even though I think vegans are all faggots, dieting is really all about counting calories and macronutrients, something vegans are obsessive about. It may not be an ideal diet, but if you take it seriously then you can get by just fine without meat and dairy.

hey bud you’re probably trolling, and you’re likely not a vegetarian, but just google “difference between plant and animal protein” and do some research. a purely plant based diet is not as effective for protein synthesis, just as eating pork rinds is not actually a good protein source, despite being pure protein.... i’ll let you figure out why

>hint: complete vs incomplete proteins

> *loses the argument*
> hey stop trolling man

Yes, every vegan bodybuilder is on roid.

Unironically kys because you don't know shit about nutrition and you're spreading wrong information. Go lift for a few years before posting here again ok sweaty?

All that fruit and veg with some rando tofu poop for minimal protein, with that amour of muscle mass and leanness?

Nah, not possible. Only people who gain and maintain decent muscle mass and low bodyfat with minimal protein and zero animal protein intake are roiders.

Ok, your turn, plug in some lentils and peas in cronometer until you reach 150 grams protein and tell me which amino acid I'm deficient in

You can be lean and small
You can be big and fat
But you cant be big and lean*

*Unless you use steroids

This man lies

>Eat plant proteins bro they're just the same
...

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For safety of user who have no idea and believe stupid stuff on the internet.

This guy here is telling shit on it's purest form.
Essential amino acids are essenital because YOU HAVE TO GET THEM THROUGH FOOD!

Pland based protein does rarely contain all essential amino acids. You have to know what to eat to cover everything in a good amount to get even close to OPs pic.

I do not say that you have to eats tons of animnal products.

JUST EAT A FUCKING BALANCED DIEAT OF EVERYTHING AND DON'T GO FULL RETARD TO ONE EXTREME.
Full vegan are braindead fuckers and meat only is stupid too.

I miss common sense in people.

what is this user?

PDCAAS (Protein digestibility-corrected amino acid score) Values of Different Foods

Jow Forums is only used for trolling and recycling memes. If you expect anything else you will be severely disappointed

no it's not
There are still gems here to find and there are new people everyday.

Telling them blantant bullshit is fucked up in it's purest form. (Well creating some amoniac gas and nearly dying can be avoided by common sense and had at least some lulz)
But nutrition is a point where no one of the new anons has a clue.

This is definitely achievable natty. I got a 160kg bp eating ~70% protons from plants (mainly legumes). He's not even that big desu. His biceps are like twice the size of mine though.

>This guy here (You) # is telling shit on it's purest form.
>Essential amino acids are essenital because YOU HAVE TO GET THEM THROUGH FOOD!
Oh, it's on motherfucker
Name ONE essential amino acid I'm deficient in after putting in 150 grams of protein in cronometer from red lentils, chickpeas, tofu and rice protein 80% concentrate
ONE
Inb4 you cherrypick a specific item from cronometer that hasn't got them listed so they appear as 0/0/0/0/0/0/0/0/0, I've logged it countless times, the top search options should have everything listed

You're retarded. Most grains and beans contain ALL essential amino acids. ALL. They usually have LESS of specific essential amino acids, which is why you COMPLEMENT them with other plant foods, OR just eat a shitton of them. Even white fucking bread has all the essential acids except for tryptophan. Which is why you eat it with beans or someshit (and IIRC beans or peas have a complete amino profile). You can be a healthy vegan just fine, it's a matter of convenience and habit. You don't have to autistically chase the best source of protein. Just eat a shitton of leucine tablets to activate mtor or someshit if you want to sperg out about aminos.

I don't go vegan because WHAT IF THERE'S SOME UNDISCOVERED SHIT THAT WE NEED IN ANIMAL PRODUCTS and because chickens are dumb evil bastards and I feel fine eating them/their eggs by the way.

Actually nvm wheat germ has tryptophan so I assume white bread has it too, was quoting from memory.

Attached: JonVenusVegan.jpg (365x365, 27K)

>I have literally no idea what pdcaas is, how it's defined, how it's measured, and why that makes it a bad metric of protein quality
I remember high school too

Buttblasted vegan force are giving 100% today wow.

Keep posting your roided bros that swiched to a vegan diet after making it.
You want to prove something?
Then show me a non roiding lifter that was already a vegan when he started as small fuckboy

He's obviously on gear. Not just saying that because he's a vegan but because it's obvious to anyone who has used.

Look there's nothing wrong with doing a vegan diet (so long as you don't push it on children or pets) but don't pretend that it's something it isn't. It isn't a high performance strength diet, and it never will be. If you want to live a long time and you don't mind being on the smaller side then it's fine which is why it's so popular among women. But to pretend it's a suitable diet for performance-driven strength athletes is moronic especially when these comments are always backed by vegan athletes on steroids. Steroids essentially negate most of the biggest drawbacks to the vegan diet.

Top post

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But Jon Venus doesn't roid, stay mad
>Hurr naive/shill vegan
Jon Venus has posted a video responding to durian rider who accused him of roiding, letting him pick any date, time, clinic and method, as a bet. Until DR (or anyone) takes him up on the bet, he's natty

>Veganism is a hindrance to building muscle
>Source: my ass

I remember when I was 12. havn't developed critical thinking and believed everything someone told me.

Let me guess, you belong to those that believe that Dwayne the Rock is also not on roids because he says so?
You wouldn't be the first one on my list.

Not only that but vegan athletes have blood tests to monitor their deficiencies (which they WILL have) and have these corrected with targeted supplementation under supervision from a doctor.

Your average 150lbs twink vegan making smoothies all day doesn't have steroids compensating for all the hormonal deficiencies induced by the diet nor will they be taking all the necessary supplements.

I'm not a big meat eater myself, I find most meats take too long to digest, but I think it's incredibly foolish to overlook perhaps the 2 most complete protein sources which are eggs and fish. Vegans like to demonise non-vegans as though we sit around eating 5lbs of beef daily but they take it to the other extreme which is just as bad.

Mate
1) you don't have proof
2) he isn't THAT big
3) and most importantly, you believe (not know, no proof) that veganism makes you small unless you roid, while there is zero mechanistic evidence to support that claim
So nice try, 6/10, got two replies out of me

Did you use?
What are the signs that the dude used?

Sorry but building muscle requires inflammation, it requires hormones to be optimal, it requires cholesterol and it requires vital micronutrients like iron and B vitamins which are all invariably in vegan diets.

So you can tally up the trace amounts of protein in your plants and grains as though it's somehow equivalent to other foods but that's a pretty stupid way of looking at nutrition.

Not that guy, but why pdcaas is a bad measure of proton quality?

*invariably lacking in vegan diets I meant to post

Yes I used test and a few other steroids from about 2012-2015 and began training in around 2007. I have nothing against gear users or naturals.

Signs that he uses are the typical signs like fullness in the AR-dense muscles like chest traps and delts while being very lean. I've been that lean naturally and looked similar on gear, and a natural who attains that bodyfat will have a very flat look to those muscle groups. A vegan would have it even worse since such a diet would be more catabolic when dieting to low bodyfat.

Because it shows, that animal base protein can be better used by the body then non animal based protein.
Which is not what people should know/believe if you want to make a vegan diet look superior.

If you seriously lift you need b vit supplemented anyway. Even rip with all his HURR EAT MILK AND BEEF said that he broke through a squat plateau after listening to Starr and eating b vitamin supp a lot over RDA. I think he was roiding at the time too. Not sure.

Doubt it would be very catabolic. PDCAAS for example gives onions protein max score, and 0.91 for just onions. Plus he can be vegan and eat vegan bcaas and a ton of supps.

He doesn't look that lean though. Could he look full from being in a bulking stage or somesuch?

What do I know though I've only been that lean when I didn't lift and just did sports.

I agree that supplementing all vitamins is a good idea for lifters but I don't believe that supplemented nutrition is as good as coming from real food since real food contains everything needed to extract nutrients whereas processed supplements do not necessarily. I'd say get as much as you can from diet and top up with supplements. Same applies to EPA DHA fish oils. Taking a few pills is never going to be as good as eating wild fish.

I think so too, that's why I am not vegetarian despite thinking it's a morally superior choice what with all the smart ass pigs being industrially farmed. But if I had to bet if a dude could hit for example 4 plate bench 300kg squat vegan I'd say he could. Especially if he was willing to get fat as fuck. Then again I have nothing vs the "full muscles" look, so the dude in OP's could be roiding for all I know.

The catabolism is due to the reasons I posted here nitrogen balance comes down to a lot more than just protein. Without inflammation you don't have the same growth/repair response to training, with lower testosterone and IGF-1 you don't have the same nutrient partitioning, with less cholesterol and muscle building micronutrients you can't build the muscle even if everything else is in place.

Essentially veganism is worse for building muscle for the same reason steroids work (faster growth/response, elevated IGF-1, exogenous cholesterol, improved nutrient partionining).

The vegans who try to simply it into protein comparisons are being disingenuous.

Animal protein is also a leading cause of heart disease. Being 20% better for bioavailability, by the way only mattering if you're literally only eating the exact amount you need per day which is way lower than what most lifters eat anyway, and a 100% increased chance of a heart attack, much higher diabetes risk, and a big boost in cancer risk doesn't sound like a great trade off to me.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_Digestibility_Corrected_Amino_Acid_Score , go to "limitations"
There's more reasons the article doesn't mention like "who says the reference amino acid profile they used was good", but I'm not gonna type an essay
Literally just Google vegan source of iron or whatever else
Protip: lentils have exactly the same iron as 95% lean sirloin beef per kcal

Very interesting. Any reliable resource for stuff like that?

holy shit, how did humanity even made it to the 21 century

>Animal protein is also a leading cause of heart disease.
I'm pretty sure the reason is that people are fat/lazy/having a diet that is not balanced to get the best of everything.

I can't say it often enough.
If you want to be healthy EAT A FUCKING BALANCED DIET!
A little meat from time to time, fish would be good.
Maybe 2-3 eggs per week, some milk products.
Tons of fruits and veggies and some grains
100 vegan is as retarded as 100% meat/fast food shit.

100% vegan is the best way hurr durr.
No, having a balanced diet is for 95% of all people.

Anyway I am absolutely sure that it is too early to say what helps and what doesn't. All studies are fundamentally flawed, it's impossible to take a human body, decompose it into subsystems, model experiments based on that, and expect results to be reliable. There are tons of now-known factors that were ignored in earlier studies (gut biome comes to mind), and even more factors that are waiting to be discovered.

>Vegans have low testosterone
Source: Jow Forums meme parroting
Capitals don't make your argument any less wrong. If you believe so much you are right, stop ignoring and check cronometer

every vegan I met so far was far away from beeing a character strong person that has the cabability to have some influence and be great.
Weak minded normies but not someone I would have respect towards.

Amazing citation
At least you're being honest, so unsarcastically thanks for that

>He might have recently turned vegan
He has been vegan for years.

The real question is why a vegan would reify fascist body-policing "fitness" standards

Body shape is 100% genetic and all bodies are equally good, so why would one kind of body be a reason to be vegan?

I'm really not comfortable with any of this

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For someone with a 6 pack, his upper body is pretty big to be natty. Unless he's actually a manlet, he is taking at least a little something. He looks to be around 6' in the photos though, so I say not natty.

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>a natural who attains that bodyfat will have a very flat look to those muscle groups.
I agree with this 100%. I know several guys who juice, and they all have that "pumped" look 24/7 + visible abs, just like this guy.