Tens of billions of cows raped to be inseminated, their children stolen...

vietnamese and chinese people breed dogs to be eaten, do you think that's ok?

Cows are not seen as pets.
Cows are part of the bio industry so of course people won't bat an eye.

So I pay for products that require children being stripped naked and beaten when I could perfectly avoid it?
Are you delusional?

Our culture choosing dogs over cows or pigs is completely arbitrary (other cultures do the opposite), since they have very similar levels of consciousness, sentience, with pigs being much more intelligent and complex than dogs for example.

Our culture arbitrarily choosing dogs doesn't make them more valuable.

>vietnamese and chinese people breed dogs to be eaten, do you think that's ok?

No, and this is one of the reason slopes iz inferior. They're too stupid and barbarous to identify the proper food animals.

You know what else? Some of those motherfuckers eat - OK, you won't believe this, but I'm going to tell you anyway - they eat BUGS. Fucking BUGS, brah.

You can't avoid paying taxes.
See how you're not even giving a shit that the government is beating naked human children? My point exactly.

>Our culture choosing dogs over cows or pigs is completely arbitrary

No, it's not. Dogs have been human allies for tens of thousands of years.

Pigs are smart, but only as adversaries. They aren't on our team. Dogs actively seek out opportunities to bond with humans in a pack. Cows are so stupid they're basically walking alimentary tracks - earthworms with faces.

If there is any species on Earth that can make a moral claim on humans, based on positive actions that have placed them within our moral horizon, it's dogs.

>You can't avoid paying taxes.
Exactly, I can't avoid it. The example you should be bring up is a product that I pay for that requires children being beaten that I could perfectly avoid, just like I can avoid animal products like meat or dairy.

Look at your logic. Because I pay taxes and the government does things I don't approve of, it would be ok to pay for products that require children being beaten when I could perfectly avoid it.

Holy hell, what a fucking train wreck.
Are you all right upstairs, buddy?

>You shouldn't feel empathy towords your food user
>anything that is my food does not deserve to have empathy for it, because its on my plate

amazing circular logic u braindead carnists. if i killed and ate humans and dogs im sure you would scream and whine, but cows and pigs are morally acceptable for some reason? holy FUCK ur so stupid

>Humans feel empathy for dog because our species have make speacial bonds with dog for so long
>i feel empathy for dogs because they were our slave species for so long that we changed their genetics revolving around meeting our needs, like being useful work animals, or amusing us and being loving pets
>because they make us feel good it justifies not killing them, but since other animals like pigs dont make us feel good and are tasty, its okay to kill them because they're on my plate

you're so stupid it physically hurts

Define the basis of your morality. What's it actually FOR?

Why be moral?

>No, it's not. Dogs have been human allies for tens of thousands of years.
Because we arbitrarily chose them and breed them for our purposes.

If you treat pigs and cows well, they can create the same bonds with humans that certain dogs are capable of, and more, especially pigs.

Also, why being able to create a certain bond with humans increase your value as a sentient being? What about dogs who cannot do that? They are fine to torture and kill? But about a humans who cannot create these bonds? Are they fine to torture and kill.

You don't seem to know much about non-human animal intelligence, literally every study on the topic contradicts your claims.

Your rationalizations is just a product of cultural conditioning.

I agree Op, but I'm not vegan or have morals

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Why is it that people become nihilists only when talking about animal rights?
Let's talk about raping kids for fun and see if you are still asking these questions or if the answer only refers to self-interest (like a social contract).

The answer is simply that you can realise that other things in the universe experience something as bad just like you would experience it as bad and worth avoiding. You can act on it and it is good to do it. That's it.

Are barren women raped when using invitro birth....
>SEEK HELP VEGETABLE.

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Let me break it down for you.

>We pay for products that torture and kill animals when we could perfectly well avoid it and live a perfectly normal healthy life starting today
>You bring up the fact that my government might do things I don't approve of, which I cannot avoid
>Somehow you think this contradicts the first point
>I explain to you that it doesn't and that you should bite the bullet on buying products that beat children when you could perfectly avoid it.
>You still don't get it

Missed anything?

You are the one that doesn't get it.
I don't condone anything here.
You are the lazy asshole that does not give a shit.
Please kill yourself.

>You don't seem to know much about non-human animal intelligence, literally every study on the topic contradicts your claims.

It's not a question of intelligence. As I said, it's a question of the moral horizon.

The *purpose* of morality is to create a structure of ideas that benefits humans by regulating our interactions with each other and with the wider world / universe.

Because of that, OF COURSE a given creature will have more or less value based on its relationship to human beings and the relationship of its species to human beings.

Dogs have chosen to be on our team. Yes, we have bred them to maximize their benefit to ourselves, but at some moment now lost in the fog of the past, they moved from outside our moral horizon to inside it.

A xenomorph of the "Alien" style, if one existed, would be outside our moral horizon and would have absolutely no moral value to humans regardless of its level of intelligence. And yes - it would be perfectly fine to torture it and to kill it.

>Define the basis of your morality
my current basis for ethics and morality is based on suffering, and that willingly causing other sentient beings to suffer is morally wrong, and that suffering is an objectively bad thing in the absolute sense

this is the ethical standards that are used by most governments and politicians, ie; dont hurt or kill people, dont steal, dont do stuff that causes people to suffer

our laws are very human centered and are very speciesist. mammals like pigs and cows are sentient conscious mammals, who can suffer and feel pain just as deeply as humans can. their intelligence is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT

>Cows are so stupid they're basically walking alimentary tracks - earthworms with faces
how is this an argument to justify hurting the sentient mammal? mentally retarded people and niggers are also really fucking stupid, but a being's intelligence does not mean it cant suffer or feel pain. its morally wrong to torture the mentally retarded, yet its okay for pigs and cows?

why are carnists so delusional and such hypocrites?

>Why is it that people become nihilists only when talking about animal rights?

I'm not a nihilist. I simply am cognizant of the fact that applying moral rules to cows is like applying them to rocks or to the color blue. It's a conceptual failure, and a hysterical and childish one.

i meant to link ur post in this post but i forgot. heres your (you)

objectively and scientifically incorrect. with science we can measure the brain and accurately gauge if its suffering or not, and sentient mammals are all capable of suffering according to the latest science

youtube.com/watch?v=h3aLioDNAYg

>The *purpose* of morality is to create a structure of ideas that benefits humans by regulating our interactions with each other and with the wider world / universe.
Completely arbitary definition of morality.
Why only "humans"? Why is being a member of the species homo sapiens is the criterion here? Why not use a larger criterion (like mammals)? Or a smaller one (only white people).
These are arbitrary. If you want to say that the criteria you are using is "humans" because humans have higher abilities (in terms of intelligence, ability to understand social contracts and so on) you would have to bite the bullet on torturing and killing humans that don't have these abilities (like the same intelligence or ability to respect a social contract or whatever than a pig, a cow or a chicken).

Why does your definition of morality centers around being a member of the species homo sapiens? Because *you* are a human? You are also other things (man, white, not mentally retarded), why not arbitrarily use those?

>my current basis for ethics and morality is based on suffering

Why? Why should you or anyone else care about suffering?

Avoiding the creation of suffering makes sense in the context of a human-centric morality. It makes absolutely no sense in a pan-speciesist context.

Fuck normies and fuck their annoying ass woof woof toys

Fucking Gayreek scum

>Completely arbitary definition of morality.

I would describe it as axiomatic and not as arbitrary.

And it's fine if you reject that axiom, as long as you're intellectually honest enough to admit it. Because once you openly reject the axiom, for the rest of our discussion observers should be aware:

>I am arguing using the axiom that morality should be structured to benefit man and human life
>You are arguing that morality has no relationship to the benefit of man and human life

Everyone can now keep that in mind. You don't have to accept my axiom, but if you don't, I'll regard everything else you say in the light of that rejection.

You motherfuckers are overthinking this waaaaaay too hard. Dogs are much more useful as a companion than cows, chickens, any creature we eat thus, eating them would be such a waste. On the other hand if there were only dogs left in the planet as a source of meat, we would gladly eat them. End of story.

Because that's how sentience works.

YOU oppose to your own suffering. YOU oppose to being tortured to death for a week so that some cunt can have fun torturing you.

It's irrational for you to ask why another thing in the universe that has the same abilities as you to experience suffering why suffering is a bad thing and worth avoiding.

>Avoiding the creation of suffering makes sense in the context of a human-centric morality
Why. Explain this one.

The rapefugees did it not the Greeks.

Cows are genetically bred through eons of evolution and selective breeding to provide and BE food. They have literally no other purpose in life.

Dogs weren't.

/thread

Can I ask you how do you justify that axiom?
Why only human beings?

>Why? Why should you or anyone else care about suffering?

you dont have to. you can do whatever you want, but just because you dont care for other sentient beings doesnt mean its morally ethical to inflict suffering on them. you have the power to choose

>Avoiding the creation of suffering makes sense in the context of a human-centric morality. It makes absolutely no sense in a pan-speciesist context.

this is speciesism. its caring for humans only and not other sentient mammals. this is very similar to how slave owners would care for members of their own race, but enjoy enslaving, whipping and abusing their nigger slaves. they'd just say "niggers arent human". such views were very common in the world up until the abolition of slavery, most presidents even said niggers are 3/5ths human or less than human

but regardless of their intelligence, you are still causing them to suffer. and you can do this because you're more powerful, so the "might is right" philosophical view towards people who dont like is correct, but normal ethical standards are applied to people you do like, like your family or community or racial group

this is delusional and hypocritical

>It's irrational for you to ask why another thing in the universe that has the same abilities as you to experience suffering why suffering is a bad thing and worth avoiding.

You're acting as if I would expect another species to not *also* base its morality on what benefits *it*.

You can't try to trip me up with the maxim of my action when I'm perfectly HAPPY with my action being a maxim.

If tigers become sentient tomorrow, I would expect their morality to conclude that it's OK to eat humans. There would be absolutely no reason for me to think I could make any claim on tiger morality. In fact, I would expect tiger morality to *celebrate*, and write poetry about, tigers who were really, really good at catching and eating humans.

>Avoiding the creation of suffering makes sense in the context of a human-centric morality

Because WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY!

Just kidding...but not really. Humans having empathy for other humans allows us to better operate in groups. Extending that empathy to dogs makes sense because dogs have joined the pack and try to help us operate in groups. Pigs want to escape and to kill us if they can (a perfectly natural desire, from the perspective of pig morality) and have no interest in our group enterprises.

>this is delusional and hypocritical

What made it delusional was that it was based on the (wait for it) delusion that slaves weren't human.

The belief that cows aren't human is not a delusion. It is quite accurate, even if your mom LOOKS a lot like a cow.

>you dont have to

I didn't ask if I was compelled to, I asked why I *should*.

"Suffering is bad" is a moral conclusion. I'm asking you for the parts of your morality that you used to construct that conclusion.

Hey.

I don't think you've ever been near a cow farm or even outside of a city.

>doesn't make them more valuable
clearly it does - to us.

you're a part of the same culture by the way. you can disagree with how we value different animals, but you're no smarter or correct than anyone else. pigs "more intelligent" than dogs? how many PhDs does the average pig hold? shut the fuck up.

I hate vegans so much. I respect the idea behind being vegan but vegans are always, always such cunts and I just hate them as people. They're so fucking dumb and annoying. I avoid meat a lot but I'd never call myself a vegan because people will think I'm an asshole by default.

Shit in toilet vs shit in fridge. We know and understand what happens to cows because they are livestock but you don't rape and murder dogs.

DO YOU FUCKING IDIOT HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MUCH MORE PAIN A RAPED DOG HAS TO ENDURE THAN A COW WHO IS ARTIFICIALLY INSEMINATED? DO YOU FUCKING KNOW THAT MOST PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW HOW COWS ARE BEING TORTURED BEFORE KILLED? IF YOU DO NOT HAVE OR KNOW YOU ARE SO FUCKING MORONIC YOU SHOULD BE LOCKED INTO A NURSING HOME FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE. Then again, YOU PROPABLY DO HAVE AND KNOW, BUT YOU WANT TO DEFEND PEOPLE'S RIGHT TO RAPE ANIMALS. IF SO, YOU ARE GOING TO DIE THROUGH BEING RAPED TO DEATH. Like every FUCKHEAD WHO RAPES ANIMALS, no matter what is their mental or material state. Also FUCKHEADED FILTH who sees it as a chance to attack when someone wants to kill the fuckheads raping animals and expresses it publicly, IS GOING TO DIE.

SERIOUSLY WE NEED TO START SLAUGHTERING THE FUCKHEADED FILTH WHO TORTURES OR RAPES ANIMALS, NO MATTER WHAT THE LAW SAYS. Human laws are, after all, largely TOTALLY FUCKHEADED FILTH, that does not treat animals the same way as humans. Anyone supporting such laws should be killed too, or at least locked into a prison for the rest of their lives.

Well, probably lotsa subhuman filth attacking me for this post in this thread, and unfortunately I won't find any of you so that I could rape you to death. Guess I just need to keep my eyes open and keep a list of those fuckheads I meet in the real life. And, yeah, if I met someone raping a dog or any animal, I would take the nearest heavy object and smash his skull into tiniest of pieces, or just shoot it off, and then get rid of his body using some acid.

The belief that cows aren't human is not a delusion. It is quite accurate, even if your mom LOOKS a lot like a cow.

i never said cows are human, i said they're sentient mammals who can experience suffering

animals are sentient conscious mammals that share a lot of the emotions we humans share, such as the ability to love, fear, hate, suffer, be happy, be sad, be depressed, be exited, be envious, and so on

and when you eat them you support a slavery institution which makes them suffer greatly, which morally wrong because sentient mammals suffer for your amusement. just because you have the power to do so and can go around abusing them unabated doesnt make it morally just

hundreds of years ago i could go around killing and castrating and whipping nigger slaves around willy-nilly and no one would bat an eye, but that also wouldnt be morally just

>They're so fucking dumb and annoying
>waaaa waaaaa its annoying to me when someone corrects me in my logical errors and points out where im wrong, so these people must be dumb and there so annoying waaaa

k

the whole thing has to be a big marketing scam. i cannot believe that any sane person would define themselves by the idea that they just don't eat some group of foods.

>fucking animals just to satisfy their disgusting urges
God it's hot to think about these brown refugees getting paid just to exist while they spend their whole day breeding eurocucks women.

Congratulations on this. Seriously

>On the other hand if there were only dogs left in the planet as a source of meat, we would gladly eat them. End of story.
I think that we should kill and eat all the fuckheads raping or torturing animals. That would be fair. Good source of meat too.

>but you're no smarter or correct than anyone else

LOL what kind of braindead statement is this. "you're not more correct than anyone else who has an opinion on any subject :'( "

LOL you cant actually be serious. you dont make any arguments or bring up any objective facts, you just cry and resort to ad hominids

why are carnists so stupid and delusional?

>say vegans are dumb and annoying
>a vegan immediately responds to my post acting dumb and annoying
Can't make this up.

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>eating is amusement
>compares meat production to slavery of other humans
hmm you never read much in school, did you? appeal to emotion is fun but you missed having any actual argument. if eating meat is supporting slavery, then so is participating in any part of the economy (shopping, working, etc) where it benefits someone who eats meat. you wouldn't be helping in any way, mr high horse

>Gets told hes not enlightened or better for being vegan
>Flips his shit because he didn't receive the gratification he thought he deserved since he's a vegan and thus better than anyone else who isn't because that's what he's been told
wew lad

I wonder if I should eat fish and crickets now

>why are carnists so stupid and delusional?
It's probably all that cholesterol running through their brains

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>value of an animal can be objective
lol

>a vegan immediately responds to my post acting dumb and annoying
>delusional carnists labels anything that emotionally upsets him as "dumb and annoying" and resorts to ad hominids because he cannot use facts and logic to rebuke vegans

you being non-vegan supports a system that depends on the suffering of animals for your amusement. enjoy knowing that you are morally and ethically bankrupt

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Meat taste too good and you only live once. At least thats how i see it

AND WHY THE FUCK IS "RAPED" IN QUOTATION MARKS IN THE HEADLINE???? DOES THE FUCKING HUMAN LAW CLAIM THAT AN ANIMAL CAN NOT BE RAPED OR THAT RAPING AN ANIMAL IS NOT A REAL RAPE??? ANY FUCKHEAD THINKING LIKE THIS IS GOING TO DIE.

voiceofeurope.com/2018/06/body-of-raped-dog-found-inside-greek-refugee-camp/

No one said you can't be for the most humane methods of slaughter.

Sure, it's arbitrary. So what? At the end of the day, dogs are our friends and are raised to be our friends and domesticated. Cattle is not, it's meant for food. You can argue how arbitrary it is all day, doesn't change the fact that's how it goes. And of course a human is going to feel more emotions towards an animal that is culturally known as family. Saying "HURR DURR ITZ ARBITRARY THOU lul SOCIAL CONTRUCT XD" doesn't change emotions, tardo.

It's not for amusement, it's for food you fucking retard. Big difference. I also think inflicting pain for amusement is wrong but we need to eat and most people including myself don't want to be s o y i m.

>judges a person based on what he eats
logic! grug smart!

Morality is a big fat fucking spook and OP is a faggot who should read about egoism

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AND YEAH, THE FUCKHEADS DOING THIS (foie gras) AND ALIKE WILL BE TORTURED TO DEATH AS WELL.

NO MERCY. NO REMORSE.

Yeah there all just animals anyway hell where all just filthy animals if i can eat one then i should be able to eat the other

You can eat anything else that is not an animal product, and you don't even have to eat S 0 Y (which doesn't lower your testosterone anyway, but whatever). You can be vegan and never touch S 0 Y.

Getting shits and giggles is also using it for something so it's the same.

Nature is not harmonic nor is human society capable of transcending to a more moralistic consumption of energy. When they have adapted within that environment of violence for the past 2 million years. I believe veganism is superior in the sense that it goes against the cycle of pain sentient organisms have to experience.

However I do not believe it is feasible for people to adopt veganism during our life time. Perhaps our food supply will find a revolutionary replacement in the near future.

>High sugar low fat low protein diet
Enjoy your heart disease

I eat tortured children. What are you gonna get triggered and judge me??

"humane methods of slaughter" is a contradiction

thats like saying the most humane method of keeping nigger slaves is to use an electric prod because its more effective than a whip and causes less damage

you are objectively ethically immoral. you cause other sentient mammals to suffer. those ducks in the picture had their insides eaten up by rats while they were still alive, because the ducks were to weak to defend themselves. the duck were still alive btw

keeping animals in cages for meat and our amusement meat makes me happy so its okay =P cannot be done humanely. these animals get to hear their relatives get tortured daily, get castrated daily, hear them dying daily, all for your amusement in the form of steak and bacon 'n eggs. you think such treat can be ethical?

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>t. rogan-normie

Why do you think causing sentient mammals to suffer is immoral? And who are you to force your subjective morality onto others, tardo?

We can definitely make it less traumatic as stress/trauma actually ruins meat.

lamb chops are objectively good

>High sugar
No, you can avoid sugar entirely, and eat whole grains for carbs, or fruit, which doesn't give you the blood sugar spike that sugar gives you
>low fat
No, you can eat high-fat plant foods like olive oil, avocado and so on
>low protein
No, by eating legumes you can eat a high protein diet. Plenty of vegan bodybuilders/powerlifters.

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Everything you just said was retarded. And you're simply proving my point. You've built up this bizarre strawman in your mind and you're on a moral crusade against him.

Look as I said in my original post, I appreciate what you're attempting and again, I consume very little meat because I also believe in similar things. But you're being a cunt about it like all vegans are. That's why I can't call myself a vegan. You're always dumb cunts. I don't know why, but you are. You personally are no exception in fact you are the perfect embodiment of a dumb cunt vegan and you keep proving it. So I don't really eat meat but don't count me among your ranks. That's my point. Rethink your strategy, you only do further harm to the vegan image by being an asshole.

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>It's not for amusement, it's for food you fucking retard

you dont NEED to eat meat. there are a ton of very healthy people in all forms of life that are vegan, from body builders to athletes to whomever

infact veganism is much healthier for you than eating meat. vegans are the skinniest people when you compare diets

so since its voluntary to eat meat, the only reason why anyone would elect to eat meat is for their amusement. like how the only reason i would choose to play videogames or watch anime is for my amusement

amusement
noun
the state or experience of finding something funny
the provision or enjoyment of entertainment.

The average vegan doesn't do this. Lots that I've seen are fat as fuck because they stuff their faces with vegan baked goods after having their salad. Also
>Vegan bodybuilders/powerlifters
Lot of them are roiders or cheat on their diet.

it can be done ethically, yeah. i like how in your own post you mention animals eating/hurting each other. we're animals too. nothing wrong with it.

I SERIOUSLY DO NOT GET THIS SHIT. The article clearly says that:

"The staff found a little female dog dead at the centre of the camp, covered with a blanket. The little dog had obvious signs of a brutal rape on her genitals, but no other external trauma."

THEN THE HEADLINE PUTS "RAPED" IN QUOTATION MARKS. Seems like the fuckheads do not think that an animal could be raped, even if it's entire lower body was torn into a bloody mess by some human dicks. Guess I need to go and remove some heads very soon.

Imagine if your grandma saw you post this

fish diets are much healthier.

food is not amusement.

try again.

Lean meat such as chicken or protein sources such as eggs are very healthy for you. There are plenty of non-vegan foods out there that no nutritionist or doctor unless they're part of the vegan cult would object to. Just stop posting you're embarrassing yourself now.

Op makes a good point. I wish I were vegan desu

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Thank you for this post user. Vegans will win

>Why do you think causing sentient mammals to suffer is immoral?

because biologically speaking theres no difference between the animal's ability to experience suffering and humans, and by my ethical standards causing suffering to sentient mammals is immoral

>And who are you to force your subjective morality onto others, tardo?
i dont have the power to force my moral standards on anyone, im just explaining to you why you're wrong and immoral. you can do whatever you want, but just because you're free to do so doesnt mean its morally just

nigger slavery wasnt morally just either, but for most of human history we had slaves

We should start killing dogs since it pisses off normies so much

You think factory farmed animals (or animals in run-of-the-mill slaughterhouses) get a better treatment?

You can stop funding these products, just stop buying them (or at least significantly reduce your consumption).

Stellar logic my friend. Just astounding.
>vegans are the skinniest people when you compare diets
Oh for sure. In fact they're so skinny one might question whether they're getting the nutrients they need. Say, essential nutrients that the human body is designed to draw from meat.

Mother nature is cruel, friend. I was constructed to consume the flesh of other creatures. Take it up with evolution/God if it bothers you.

To be fair, how would anyone know another, larger breed dog didn't do it? I've seen enough AoZ to know their dicks are comically large. They reduce experienced, professional cockjockeys to tears, I'm sure a small dog has no chance.

>you're wrong and immoral
why does your opinion here count for anything? that's not even a real insult

food must be raped because the stress and fear hormones make the meat taste better.

What is sentience user?