Nobody is an inherently a bad person. Every person is a victim of their circumstances...

Yes, DuckDuckGo is alright with me

ok, mind if i copy that patent of yours? It's not like you acquired the profits that i gained. So you may have less now because of my actions, but it;s not like i took them away from you... directly.

X was genuinely turning his life around and trying to change. Then he got killed. GG :(

>no one is inerently bad

Yeah, 'cause psychopaths don't exist

He deserved to get killed for being too much of a fucking dumbass to roll deep while out in the streets.
It's the equivalent of a teenage girl walking through the rapiest part of town at night while wearing clothes that would make a hooker blush.
xxxfaggot talked shit, started beefs and was just a generally inflammatory person, then walked around by himself without expecting to get ran up on. Dipshit was probably barred out of his mind too.

The soft fuckboy brainlet should have learned not to act hard after getting knocked into the fencing response in one hit by some dude running up on stage during his live show. Natural fucking selection.

Fuck off you retarded libcuck creationist

Attached: mao-a gene.jpg (1136x2200, 812K)

live like a nig
die like a nog

Yeah, because the gov't can afford to genetically engineer every potentially undesirable fetus

>every person is a victim of their circumstances
>every person is a victim

That kind of mentality completely robs people of their autonomy to the point where no one has to take any responsibility for their actions. It's the mentality of a disingenuous moralizer who seeks to control the thoughts of others by convincing them they have no power over themselves.

The lives of the weak-minded are as expendable to the state (or whatever moral authority is being deferred to) as the lives of the people they harmed were to them. They are not precious.

Of course some people can be rehabilitated but making categorical statements like "nobody is an inherently bad person" doesn't solve the ills of society like you think it does, no matter how enlightened it makes you feel

Sometimes I forget that people have an IQ around 100, like you. Obviously no one can control their genetic disorders or psychological trauma that ultimately lead to their behavior. By inherently bad OP means that a person isnt evil because he has an evil soul or something, he is bad because of factors outside of his control. His actions are bad, but it isnt his fault.

Her even was a manlet

Population will be controlled in the future, anyway. You dont need a hundred million people when you only need thousands of intellectuals and the other various careers while the robots are doing the manual work. Genetic engineering is the future whether you like it or not.

You mean that fake shit Jow Forums keeps making that looks like it would be spread by old white supremacist aunts on Facebook seriously are you actually retarded

But then, who is "he"

You're acting like people are something beyond their bodies/minds, but we have no proof of that.

>But then, who is "he"
He was talking about every person
>You're acting like people are something beyond their bodies/minds, but we have no proof of that.
No he didn't

There is no self in my opinion. You are what you are made of, and what you are made of you did not create. This is in contrast to the people who think bad people are genuinely, purely evil for absolutely no reason whatsoever, as if they have a self which is free from all influence, and yet chooses to do evil. If two people are truly free, why would one choose good, while the other choose evil? Freedom does not explain this.

lmao yeah for all the times he said he pulls up with an uzi then he just pathetically dies to one bullet, what a tool...

I see so you don't believe in free will.

So basically we are just an awareness going along for the ride with the illusion of control?

In a world where everybody has some fucking sob story, I've legit had one of the most twisted and traumatic upbringings of anybody I know, and I still go out of my way to be a good and noble person anyway. Some of the few people who have legit had it even worse than I did are people who I look up to for their good and generous hearts.
There's never an excuse to be an asshole, and it's never too late to stop. No amount of suffering, no matter how great, excuses or even mitigates, even the most infinitesimal amount of evil.

Whatever. I'll be dead anyways

Yes
originally my post is originalll really i mean it

>nobody is an inherently good person. every person benefits from their circumstances. therefore rewarding someone for doing something good is unethical.
do you see how stupid that sounds? if everyone lived in a vacuum and their behavior didn't affect anyone else then we wouldn't have to punish them. but we all live together and our behavior affects other members of society. therefore, it is necessary for society to set up incentives to discourage bad behavior (AKA behavior that hurts other people) and encourages good behavior (AKA behavior that helps other people). You may disagree with the way those incentives are implemented, but if we allowed crimes like theft, rape, murder, and vandalism to go unpunished, then everyone's lives would be worse.

You are a victim of your circumstances because you were born in the exact time, place, body, and with the exact mind you were born with. Your circumstances made it so that you continue being a good person after a traumatic upbringing

Are you starting to get it?

Yes. Free will can not possibly be explained objectively. You must admit that people are influenced in some part by factors beyond our control, but some still argue that we have free will. But how much, and how does it operate? If it were not for the illusion of free will, everyone would easily agree that we are not free. Evolution doesnt grant the innate ability to understand that everything you do is predetermined; of course, it will lead to organisms with a will and awareness, but not so much awareness that they realize how their brain works. We had to figure this stuff out scientifically over hundreds of years, but even then we cannot always escape the illusion.

Everyone goes through shit. Sure, some do worse than others, but we have advanced minds, we don't have fucking slugbrains. we're not completely at the whim of whatever circumstances we happen to be in. You have the opportunity to not let things effect who you are, to rise above things, to change, etc. Most people probably do this.

Sure, the circumstances play a factor and some people have the deck stacked against them, but you can't act like its 100% the circumstances fault, always there's a factor of the person letting their circumstances get the better of them, compromising their own values or integrity or never establishing their own values/integrity to begin with.

Wow this is just about the most stupid moral argument I have heard anyone ever make.

The only people I think are inherently bad are sociopaths and psychopaths.

Nobody else is born evil, but every adult is responsible for their decisions. Whoever you are, there is alaways someone who has been through worse. The fact that you have been through something does not mean unrelated people deserve to go through something too.

You can be sympathetic towards a criminal/wrongdoer, but that does not absolve them of their crimes

Now you're just making an argument for determinism, with or without any moral element included. And yes, I understand determinism very well, but it sure as hell isn't true.
>muh science says
Not an argument you want to have with me.

I never even once mentioned science in any even mildly derivative form.

And why isn't determinism true exactly?

Because causality itself falls apart when you really look at things closely, because you really do have free will and a soul.

Every action stems from desire. Sociopaths have extremely different desires, but this is still only a genetic difference, as with everyone else. Maybe instead of killing people, most people just have urges to be rude. Just because every single iteration of genes isnt in a disease database doesnt mean we dont all live based on our DNA. If anyone ever does anything, they acted simply because they had the desire to act. Even if they knew of the consequences, the desire to go through with the act was simply stronger. If you decide to not do a certain action, this isnt freedom, because you simply followed the desire to get rid of another desire. If smoking a cigarette is a desire, then not smoking due to the negative effects is also a desire. But you cant blame someone for smoking, because they simply dont have that level of awareness of the effects, OR their cravings for temporary pleasure over long term health is simply greater. You seem to think that everyone that doesnt have a diagnosed disease has the same desires and knowledge of their desires and the same genetics and the same upbringing. Youre just wrong, dude.

Everybody is ultimately a function of their genetic code and observed information. People who are "bad" are simply poorly tuned clockwork, either through shoddy construction or poor maintenance.

What the heck does that even mean?
What are people talking about when they say free will or soul?

When are you ever not focused on something? When are you ever not moving from one thing the next. Even this conversation is stimulating a part of you (this you is a mechanical thing) to reply.
Can you starve yourself to death just because? No, because the body jas a basic need to exist. This is not a choice but a pure instinct. Even ANTS do it for chrissakes, and they only have a little nerve ganglia to co-ordinate movement. You don't exist. Obviously you can make choices, like what food to eat or who to talk to, but it's all a calculation. The brain is only an organic computer, and this sense of self is nothing but a gramatical rule being confused with reality

I know you were predetermined to be that stupid, so I wont blame you for expecting us to believe you without giving an ounce of reasoning for your claims. Either the world is deterministic, or indeterministic. It can be indeterministic through randomness, which I dont see any reason to believe in, but even this isnt freedom. But how exactly are we free? How can we cause ourselves to do action without influence outside? Even if we have souls, is this not also something that was caused by something else? Does it not have a nature which contributes to our action? Can you really not imagine the possibility that none of us are free, and that it is simply an illusion? Because I can, get I have no understanding of how causality can not only be breached, but through the will of beings who subscribe to causality most (all) of the time.

>You're acting like people are something beyond their bodies/minds
He is quite fucking literally saying the opposite of that. You're nothing outside of your body and mind, you can't be anything more than your genetic factors and past experiences. He's saying that a "bad person" can be rehabilitated and turned into a "good person" because being bad is something that is learned, so giving "bad people" punishments is unethical because those actions, thoughts, feelings are all the result of a bad life.

It's the whole "there's no such thing as free will" thing. You are just an organism constantly learning to adapt based on previous information, so if all of your experiences in life were bad and you just had a horrible life in general, then you're going to operate based on all this previous information and be more likely to become a "bad person." We are just biological computers made of thought, if you had two completely identical human beings and put them through the EXACT same experiences, then they would become the exact same person.

Your body is only the receiver. It's just an avatar.
And I should have used a semicolon, because the two thoughts aren't necessarily related.
What really got me out of determinism was studying higher math and physics. Causality is truly far from rigid.

>man goes out and purposefully, knowingly kills another man
>"show that it's wrong but not completely ruin their lives"

And why the fuck should their lives NOT be completely ruined

Proof that the body is a receiver? Are monkeys receivers, too? And what about physics and math led to your new beliefs about causality? And how did those beliefs lead to your belief in free will? If this is something objective, based on something we can all observe and reason through, you should explain it. If what you have to say makes any sense, then you would convince a lot of people.

Because that man could have been you. You were lucky to be in your current body, and not someone else. Sure, at the very moment, the justice system has purpose. We are simply saying that it is unfortunate that over the course of human history so many people have had ruined lives simply because of their desires which they had no control over. It is unreasonable to think that we can solve this problem in a short amount of time, but it will definitely be addressed in the future.

Killing each other for killing each other would result in everyone dying

I honestly can't. The idea that your body is a receiver isn't a direct result of the math/physics stuff, either. That just got me out of determinism. And I can't explain how causality falls apart to the average person, either. If you're interested, check out Einstein and Minkowski.

Everything does not stem from desire. Perhaps it does in your mind, but that is not always the case. Necessity is not always related to desire, and neither is compunction.

Giving into your desires is what animals do, and our highly developed ability to delay gratification is he only thing that separates us from this.

All of what you have said is complete and utter bung. Most smokers are completely aware of the effects, and plenty WANT to quit, they just have a psycho-chemical addiction that overrides their rational decision-making. Allowing the desire to take over is disastrous for them. I understand that breaking an addiction is very difficult, but that does not mean that they do not have a responsibility to themselves to fix it, especially if it causes harm to others. If you read the Bible or had any moral basis this would all make sense.

I do not think everyone has the same desires or knowledge, and I do not know where you are drawing that conclusion from.

Actions have consequences. It is up to every human being to choose actions that lead to the consequences they desire while not transgressing Gods standards.

There are circumstances which make doing so very difficult for some individuals, which is unfair, but in time God will correct that fact and all those who have acted justly will be rewarded.

Having a difficult background does not absolve one from sin or error. It can make it reasonable for an arbitrator to voluntarily anull their charges, but does not change reality. Whoever does damage for any reason, noble or not, makes an irreparable shift in the flow of time that cannot be erased by any amount of absolution.

>Your body is only a receiver
A receiver of what exactly? Because the only things that come to mind are things like stimulus, which in turn is the enviroment changing by cause and effect. There is no knot independant from the fish net, they all work together to make the net. Sure, we have the chance to think between each thought, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Anything that we do can be traced back to a part in the brain. The brain which changes to suit it's environment.

>If you're interested, check out Einstein and Minkowski
I would, if you'd be more specific

>Everything I disagree with is wrong and stupid

It's always the same with you niggers, what's it like living in your own little media bubble of absolute delusion ?

Rational desires are still desires. And wanting to be moral because of religion is also a desire. What else could satisfy the desire to reproduce, thereby immortalizing your DNA, then actually being immortal in heaven? Every action is good because at some point it benefits you physically. All other benefits are simply the potential to help you in certain situations. But I dont think I can go arguing with you over this. Instead, I will post something that you do understand...

Think about it like this. If a character in a video game were somehow able to understand the coding of the game, that character might think they understood the universe. They could figure out respawn rates, damage calculations, how objects are rendered, what pixels are, basically everything governing their world. And it would be a sufficient and cohesive explanation to them, and if they fully understood it, they might even be able to manipulate the system to get what they want. It would become a science.
But it would take a revelation from somebody in our world, the real world, for them to know anything about it. Nothing in their game would be able to tell them anything about this place. And if they told anybody what had been revealed, odds are they'd be told to prove it, and they wouldn't be able to. It'd be an issue of faith.
It's like that.

Start with minkowski's Space and Time and Einstein's energy and mass papers.

Romans 9

Not only that, but Rebekahs children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad, in order that God purpose in election might stand, 12 not by works but by him who calls, she was told, The older will serve the younger. 13 Just as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on Gods mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh, I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth. 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me, Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will? 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, Why did you make me like this? 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath, prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory, 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

This doesn't really mean much to me. Really just sounds like you're saying science isn't really the final frontier for knowledge since some hypothetical dimension also has an influence over the whole business. Which doesn't mean much for free will in my own opinion, but whatever. I'll check out the paper's.

patents? we don't need that in our libertarian paradise

Women, trannies, and traps are inherently bad people

No response? What do you make of this passage?

>guy has a bad life
>murders someone
>IF YOU PUT HIM IN JAIL YOU'LL JUST BE MAKING HIS LIFE HARDER DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH HE'S SUFFERING
>murders more people
>etc

>guy has a bad life
>attempts crime
>gets put in a jail cell where he rots in misery
>gets finally released
>can't even try to get a job since it's basically required to have a clean criminal record
>guy resorts to crime
>the world is a less happier place