Kravmaga & /sdg/ - Self Defense General

Black belt in krav maga here
Its effective but it also depends on the organization/trainer that teaches it.
Its not the best self defense martial art against bare knuckle street fights but its the best GEBERALLY because you learn how to deal with and against knives, guns, baseball bats, guns, multiple attackers etc
Yeah they teach you how to use a knife/stick professionally.

Generally*
Also for weaponless combat I'd suggest muay thai/classic boxing
>but it's most of the time poorly executed
You mightve had a really bad trainer because there are many in krav maga, but it might be because you werent advanced enough
I agree that the krav maga learning system isn't very good, first few years I practiced the same defense techniques and at brown belt shit got real since I learned how to improvise during combat, that is where those techniques come in play, theyre so overmemorized that you can use every single movement effectively without thinking about it

MY friend is big into kravmaga, he burned trough like 5 different trainer, he told me because most of these "trainers" are just shit larpers.

I never did kravmaga, i did some wrestling in highschool, and now some bjj and judo. They are a lot of fun, and good for some >>basic

OP here. Thanks everybody for sharing.

For those wwho practiced it
how do I know the school I go to is a "good one", and that the trainer will be reliable ?

Another question, for somebody who haven't done any martial art in years (did some judo bout 10 years ago or so), so it's alsmost like I haven't done any in my life and I'm a complete beginner at this point, is it a good start to enter the self-defense and/or martial-art world?

I think you're better off learning another martial art, if you don't have a lot of martial arts experience it's really hard to know if the person teaching krav maga is full of shit or not. Really you should focus on something with live resistance and sparring as part of their training regime (if there isn't any live sparring it's a huge red flag that the gym is bullshido), it's not what you train that's important it's how you train.

Never interested me. Looked like a bunch of glorified eye gouging and nut kicking to me.

>how do I know the school I go to is a "good one", and that the trainer will be reliable ?
good sparring (again, you'll need previous experience for realize what is good and bad sparring), more "realistic" drills, and also look at the techniques he teaches: they have to be quick, effective, and based on gross motor skills

>how do I know the school I go to is a "good one", and that the trainer will be reliable ?
They won't promise unrealistic results, any gym that promises to make you "a killing machine in one week" or similar shit is blatantly lying to you
Sparring or training with resistance (basically making you execute moves on someone who will resist) should also be involved, a lot of gyms will teach you very situational moves and tell you it works every time when it doesn't.
Instructors should be open about their training, if someone is not open about where they learned this stuff they are probably spouting shit.
Fitness and cardio is a big thing, there is no substitute for good conditioning in a fight I don't care how experienced people are.
Like I said here you're probably better off learning another martial art like Muay Thai or BJJ which are excellent martial arts to start with and add in techniques from stuff like krav maga. Also you don't have to be as worried about avoiding bull shit with these martial arts as you do krav maga.

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>how do I know the school I go to is a "good one", and that the trainer will be reliable ?

Gym/dojo/club is a member of sanctioned federation (or has a verifiable lineage for koryu.)
Practice involves full contact free sparring.
Members compete in tournaments.
Club/gym/dojo leader/coach/sensei is ranked by sanctioned body, isn't a fat shit who can't do the techniques in free sparring, and doesn't hard sell you contracts, uniforms, or equipment.
The club/gym/dojo trying to be your exclusive dealer of uniforms and equipment is a red flag. So is a sensei/leader/coach who surrounds himself with yes men or a cult of personality.
Stay away from any place that guarantees you a black belt in a certain amount of time, or one that charges fees for in-house rank testing.
Having children or a youth class is OK, just make sure it's not a glorified after school program.
Stay away from teachers who make outlandish claims about their deadly skills, past military experience, or have "registered their hands as deadly weapons."

And as simple as it sounds, talk to the students. Get a feel for how competent and confident they are. Do they seem like cultish retards sucking the cock of a delusional shithead teacher, or do they seem down to earth and interested in the style itself and in competing?

Thanks for your advice again.

So you'll suggest to begin with BJJ or boxing ? Or another one ?

I've heard a lot about BJJ and I don't know if it's really good or just a meme. To me it sounds like it's just some turkish or greek wrestling, but with another, as it composed mostly of holding/ground immobilization and so on.

Any art or sport that practices actively opposed techniques, does full contact sparring, and has a competitive dimension (tournaments, leagues, etc) will be worth your time. You could take up Olympic fencing and your life would be better for it, IMO.

For self defense either boxing or BJJ will be fine. Pick the one that interests you more and stick with it.

So here is the suggested plan : try any other sport with full contact sparring, then move on to krav maga.

Thank u

Krav Maga is amazing and legit saved my life a couple of times but that's IF your trainer is good. Like people said, outside of Israel 90% of the trainers or so are McDojos.
If you don't mind telling me where you live I can try look for a good trainer there.

Some basic ways you could use to identify a good trainer to some degree:
-You spar regularily in classes
-Actually looks at your technique and corrects it
-Has an explanation for WHY what he's teaching works.

>If you wanna learn it you must be good at grappling and striking

If your trainer is decen they'll teach yoy striking. As for grapplong, you only need to know how to get out of grappling. 'Cheating' is fine for that but lord have mercy on you if you try pulling off dat sweet Kimura or flying armbar in a streetfight.

Was he a short man (5'5-5'6) but hella buff with dark hair and short facial hair by any chance?

How many of you have tried boxing?

Should I workout for a couple years before joining a gym, or should I just join a boxing gym right off the bat?
am skellymode

>wasting time and money learning how to roll around when i could just shoot you
Your sensei is the real jew

Some of it is a meme but it depends on the school.

I tried it for a few months. It was good conditioning and for a noob it was a great intro into the power/necessity of aggression. A lot of people don’t understand how to flip the switch and go HAM. My place also did some neat drills where a bunch of people crowd around you and bat/push at you with pads and you have to just try to stay up and keep distance for a set amount of time.

Boxing is a lot of cardio/movement, timing, and technique. You don’t need to work out before to be eligible.

just join the boxing gym. You need all the technique work and conditioning you can get. You can work in lifting once you have a semi-regular training schedule. You're gonna build muscle anyways, and strength is super easy to build if you want to.

The best defense is a strong offense, thats what i always say

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>heavy weight is 183lbs
Maybe if you're some tiny hue.

Just join. You'll pick up the needed cardio as part of the training. On that note, any gym or dojo which doesn't focus on physical fitness perhaps more so than training techniques is a joke, and probably trying to scam you out of money. The entire reason why Bruce Lee was such a huge badass was his fitness level. His entire school of thought on fighting was doing only what works and obtaining a high level of physical fitness.

If you think there's some magic trick to punching someone across a room, you're crazy. Of course, you need to know how to actually throw a punch, but mastering the technique without the physique to perform the action is literally pointless. There's a reason all professional fighters spend more time in physical training than actual sparring, and the most successful fighters have always been the ones with the best physical fitness.

Just go to a boxing gym. No need to workout. These potatoe skeletors completely destroyed the Americans back in the day: youtu.be/_ZlYZlw3W18

>no need to workout
>everyone in the video is exerting themselves to the point of being drenched in sweat
You've bought the Jow Forums meme that exercise=lifting weights and having huge muscle mass.

Do you need to be Jow Forums when starting BJJ or kravmaga ?

The Jewish martial art of scrote-kicks.

*No NeEd to jOiN a gYm aNd wOrKoUt bEfoRe yoU jOIn a bOxilNg gYm.

thanks boyos
sounds like the vote is unanimous

>What are your thoughts on it ? Worth learning ?
The federation responsible for the gym I used to train had those red flags mentioned in the thread, specially the ones related to money.
The sparring only began after the 3rd belt (1,5 years) which is a long time to have no experience in combat and the rest of the moves were trained without resistance.
All the other parts of the trainning were fine, like encouraging aggression, dealing with pressure of multiple people surrouding you and the cardio was good, although boxing is still the best for cardio.

Krav Maga classes are 99.9% rip offs and bullshit (even if the instructors believe in it themselves).
The real Krav Maga gets taught within a couple of hours and is a number of directives and mindsets.

Lol Jews gonna be J€w$.

I'll just have a word with that other guys sifu, lol

That's what it is.
It's one of those martial arts where you do partner drills in the vein of "you come at me exactly like this, then I twist your arm like this and disarm you..."
As soon as somebody doesn't play along, it falls apart instantly.

>black belt krav maga

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I wasn't even surprised. Never liked the head of the federation and the cult around him.
He actually tried to copyrigth krav maga as a brand in my country and called anybody else that tried to teach krav maga as "pirate instructors", including his own brother.

Anyone with BJJ experience, would you use it in an actual fight or would you just box?

I don't know how to box so I'd just try to get in a clinch and take the fight to the ground.

Start boxing, if it's one vs one you can do takedown & ground n pound, surface allowing. If it's multiple people keep boxing so you won't get headstomped on the ground. And run.

OP here, from France.

As you seem to have much experience, and reading other user's opinion, wouldn't it be better to start with another self-defense course or martial art ? As I'm a complete beginer

If it's only useful when you get on the ground, what's the point for a beginner to learn bjj ?

Couldn't it be more useful to learn some shit "more useful", what I mean is something that you could use one vs one or one vs multiple faggots, but laso on the ground ?

Jiteros here.
Depends on the situation. if it is in my country, I will never try to hit a cunt. I don't want to be indicted and be a felon for battery. I did a little bit of everything younger and also trained mma twice a week plus bjj from blue to brown. I have been a bouncer for 8 years, so I used bjj and only hit idiots in two situations.
Don't get in meaningless fight where you can just walk away. Don't get cornered (especially in public places) or get outnumbered because it is a shorter route. Why? Because you could get glassed or stabbed just like that and you wouldn't even see the blade that hit you. Don't get wasted/shitfaced without friends to watch your back, this means that sometime you're the one that doesn't drink/smoke and see when the shit is about to hit the fan.

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>what's the point for a beginner to learn bjj ?
Many fights end up on the ground. Untrained people are garbage at grappling so just a few months of training will make you able to handle them.

>something that you could use one vs one or one vs multiple faggots, but laso on the ground ?
Doesn't exist other than in movies or fantasies. If you're against multiple people you RUN.

>something that you could use one vs one or one vs multiple faggots, but laso on the ground ?
>Doesn't exist other than in movies or fantasies
Well, I admit I might have been a little too far on this one

In france there is muat thai almost everywhere. Go there if you want to learn how to fight. Just find a club not infested...
A good front kick or stop kick to the knee or a low kick can do wonders.
Self defense against multiple attacker is not a myth, but on the net they will never show those who failed to deal with many cunt rushing at them at once.

Following these
In your opinion, what is the martial art (or combination of multiple one) that is most effective, that allows you to be fully at the top in most situations, although the ideal doesn't exist ?

Don't want to fall in the "mine is bigger than yours" thing but eh, I'm a beginner, and try to find something effective in multiple situations

Some schools follow the dan systems, some dont.
I was Dan1, or simply black belt

>ideal
it depends on your budget and what is in your area. Generally a striking art + takedowns/grappling. So boxing + judo is an example

Let's argue that I could put a decent amount of money an that I live in a big city so no problem about that
Yeah I understand the overall view

>If your trainer is decen they'll teach yoy striking
it cannot be compared to learning a striking art
after all in muay thai (a striking art) you are taught how to punch, but you can't do it for shit compared to those who box
I've seen countless krav practicioners (IRL and in IDF videos) punching like angry teenagers

>t.never trained a single class

Im gonna keep on the KM bandwagon for this one dude.
You'll learn the basics like everywhere else as well as training common real life situations. I have a tonne of respect for other martial arts but if they don't regularly deal with multiple opponents, weapons attacks, situational awareness, 3rd party protection, grabs, chokes and not ever playing by a judges rule or as a sport I can't see how it can be as effective as KM in a REAL LIFE scenario.
my 2 cents
t. former IKMF and KMG instructor

bomp

I've yet to see a video of Krav Maga in action, outside of a non-live demonstration.
It's basically stolen moves from other defenses,

Blue belt here
5'9 170

On conditioning I do is rolling and weight lifting, best cardio for BJJ is to actually do BJJ imo

Was also steadily competing before my hernia got worse, now waiting for surgery

You sound knowledgeable on the subject. Please continue sharing your opinions

This

he's right. it was invented in the 60s and steals from BJJ and others.

Every martial art steals from the others. Do you think a straight punch is different for every style?
And yes KM steals from BJJ on the ground. Wanna know why? BJJ are the ground experts. Shocking I know. Why reinvent the wheel?
Now tell me who they steal off with everything else they train? Bc you've managed to mention

Isn't krav maga basically the dirtiest martial art in existence?

Compare this attacker standing around
youtube.com/watch?v=d7jo1Ga4b0w
to this active attacker
youtube.com/watch?v=37XiSn81oFw

>youtube.com/watch?v=d7jo1Ga4b0w

>Why are so many Israelis getting stabbed? I thought they all have military training.

HA

Anyone have a rec for self defense in the Cincinnati area? Tried a Krav class up near Loveland and it was some mcbullshit

A few things here man.
Video 1 - Thats a defence against a knife THREAT. Huge difference between a knife threat and a knife attack. A guy threatening you most likely wants something (keys, wallet) etc and is holding you up. A knife attack means that fucking guy wants you dead. He has made the decision to try and kill you. Very different situations and very different defences. KM will teach you to know the difference between the 2 and act accordingly.
Video 2 - Guy makes a bunch of valid points but also misses glaringly obvious defences etc.
I agree with not grabbing the weapon or trying to control it (until you have things under control then you can attempt that) and he makes a good point about knife attacks in the beginning, they would be brutal but the guy he is using as a demo does FUCK ALL about a guy trying to stab him. In reality, like he said, you may get cut and no defence is guaranteed but KM will teach you to see a knife and get on the offence. Don't wait to be stabbed 3 times. They break it down like this -
Step 1 Hand defence (put something up to stop the attack) 2 - Body defence (don't be in the same stop that you were in when they started to make it harder to be hit/stabbed etc) 3 - counter (whatever you can do to hurt them and slow their pace fucking do it) and keep doing that until they don't want it anymore then you can talk about disarming or just GTFO of there.
There is more but this has gone on long enough. Happy to elaborate on anything i said or answer more.
t.former instructor from a couple of posts back.

A martial art that is about self defense in real fights should give absolutely zero shits about being dirty or not.
A martial art that has been made "less dirty" to avoid injuries in tuournaments is the opposite of what you want for self defense.

It's just that I've only heard people calling krav maga dirty, not any other martial art

Yes dude, it pretty "dirty" by normal standards but who gives a shit if it gets the job done?

But plenty of other martial arts do the job too

Except most don't even cover armed attackers and fighting for your life. The average martial art is taught as a tournament sport. KM at least tries to teach you how to deal with knives, gang beatings, etc, even if it isn't really too effective.

That's true, but you asked about it being dirty and i said it was.

BJJ coach here.

Aerobic fitness is the base for basically any sort of sport/conditioning program. Most of the energy produced during BJJ is produced Aerobically due to the length of time of both the rounds and the training sessions.

Aside from that, I recommend conditioning drills using dummies or mat drills. Or even the Stability Ball (Jeff Glover's got some shit, although a lot of it is high skill based).

When you use the dummy, you do mostly passing drills: knee cut, long step, x pass, torreando, back step pass, handstand pass, rolling guillotine/kimura if you have a good enough dummy. The passing drills should be done continuously and sometimes as a sequence. Knee on belly switching/wind shield wiper drills are also great.

Some drill from guard can be done, although many of them suck. Working sequences from butterfly guard seems to work the best: hook sweep to backstep, lifting drills to leg leg entries/inversions, snap down guillotine, double hook lift guillotine...etc.

Mat drills can consits of forward, backward, side rolls,. more advanced gymnastic movents like cartwheels, back hand springs etc, shrimps, forward shrimps, shrimping on only one leg, forward shrimping on only one leg, sit outs, break fall stand up in base. granby's, etc.

Losing weight is mostly about diet.

BJJ coach here.

Learning self defense is a waste of time. Just stop being an asshole, hanging out in shady places and/or buy a gun.

Do martial arts because it's fun as fuck.

Krav Maga is particularly stupid, fyi. Just some LARPing shit.

You can be assured it is not a good one, ever. Pick a better martial art.

BJJ is one of the most fun martial arts. I like boxing, but it is a great way to become retarded and hang around with retarded poor seedy people.

I dont' get into fights because I'm not human excrement. If I wanted to hurt someone quickly I would probably just knee and elbow the shit out of them, and maybe throw them.

Again, just don't be an asshole and or retarded.

>don’t go to shady places
Yeah because people don’t go looking for fights anywhere but known shady hangouts.
This is the difference between a sport and a self defence system like KM. You want brownie points from a judge while others want to be able to defend themselves in a real life situation
>just take them to the ground bro. RIP

Thanks fampai gonna order a dummy and some mats

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>Never heard of a standing guillotine, standing arm triangle, various collar chokes or ezekial chokes

Never gonna make it

>Never heard of being stabbed, bashed by the guys friends who is there with, having something smashed onto your head while you commit your ENTIRE defence to one single person because you have never trained to be aware of a second threat
Never gonna live past your first real world physical encounter.

youtube.com/watch?v=UIvNLNhiW2Y

>Learn a striking heavy style
>Learn a grappling heavy style
>Buy a gun
Do all 3, or both of the first two if you live in a comunist country
All 3 are dealers choice for the most part. Now take this shit back to Jow Forums

Faggot shit. Learn boxing.

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This, although, If you learn to control a fight you can play to your advantages and hopefully not need that gun as a backup plan

You guys would really shoot a guy in a bar fight or something similar? Seems pretty extreme

No, I'll roll around or punch it out with anyone but the second a weapon gets involved mine are coming to bear aswell. I'm simply willing to match with equivalent force

Make no mistake: Plan A is always just to not fight. But I dont run away and if I get beat down thats ok. I'm just not down to get stabbed or shot myself

what do you guys think would be a "better" supplement to boxing: BJJ or Judo?

throwing people in judo looks fun, but may be hard on the body over time. BJJ looks interesting but may not be as practical in an actual fight (self defense is not my priority at all, just something I've considered).

If self defense isn't a priority and you still want to be practical in a fight, what is your goal?
If you're thinking about MMA then you'll need some BJJ, since pretty much everyone knows it there now.

BJJ. Judo is good, but will take you ages to get proefficient in the basics. Judo takes the most time to learn. while you'll be able to do a double/single in a month.

bump

I recommend the one from Fairtex.

I never said anything about using BJJ for self-defense.

I said don't be a fucking piece of shit, which clearly you didn't understand.

I understand self-defense quite well. My head coach has a varied background - trained multiple UFC champions, works with special forces, LEO, used to work security, etc. He's basically always been known among fellow martial artists as "The guy that can beat the shit out of people"

And what is the most effective in real life situation kravmaga or bjj ?

Sounds like most of the people here tend to say kravmaga is a meme

BJJ, but take MMA instead. You'll not only learn striking, but you'll learn to do BJJ while being struck. Also, in MMA you'll learn some wrestling which many BJJ schools lack.