The Baseline

>the real thing is letting someone own you
That's the idea. It's a sacrifice, to be contained in another and for you to contain them in turn, but it's a worthy one. Everything meaningful demands a sacrifice. Getting laid like a Chad is only meaningful the first few times. After a while I imagine it gets rather monotonous. Sex begins to lose it's meaning and become like anything else - like eating or sleeping. Just a thing that you do. Which I suppose, is a privilege in of itself and it would be nice to get to that stage. But not at the expense of love.

Unnecessary for a marriage? Perhaps. But love has always been idolized, vaulted, desired. It's the highest calling of human emotion. It's a miracle it even exists. To admire someone so deeply that their existence begins to take center stage in your perception, along with your own. To admire the way they move, speak, laugh, think, as one would admire the most beautiful piece of symphony. As if the music of the spheres were contained in one person and only you could see it. And all this without ties of blood. It defies logic and categorization. And yet there it is Is all that invalid? I'm not sure. Seems like the most valid thing of all to me, if anything in life can truly be called so.

S-stop, j-j-ust s-stop

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Yup. Born from out of wedlock parents, Dad never made an effort to be in my life and didn't even live with my mom. My mom would spent months just laying in bed, abusing alcohol and prescription drugs, never did anything a normal responsible parent would do. She was physically and verbally abusive, always saying I was retarded, didn't know how to do anything. Recently I learned she would step on my hands if I spilled something, she'd also leave me crying in my crib until the afternoon because she'd put headphones in to block out the sound. When I was 13 she forced me to do the dishes, and when I didn't do them the right way she put her hands around my neck, and another time in the 4th grade she was screaming at me threatening to kill me because I couldn't spell a word right.
Fast forward today I'm a 28 KV, literally zero sexual experience outside of masturbation, scared of people, especially women, was never interested in dating, have a hard time making eye contact, low self esteem, can't look at myself in the mirror, don't like touching or being touched, on the bright side, probably only about 50 or so more years of suffering

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I'm sorry user. I can't imagine what it's like to be in your position. I hope you find someone who loves you in a way that your parents would not.

It seems paradoxical to seek love but never voluntarily give it freely. I understand you don't want to get hurt or look weak but at the end of the day society isn't a nebulous entity or hivemind, it's a name we shove all the individuals of the world into, if you think more people(inc. yourself) deserve an individual's love/friendship then it makes sense to offer up your own as much as you can.

That hasn't really worked so far. It's always ended in betrayal.

The goal isn't to be loved but to love.

Then a cat or dog would be better options. The real goal is an exchange of love with another human being.

>probably only about 50 or so more years of suffering

Why not consider suicide? You deserve some peace for yourself.

You can't expect that or you'll end up disappointed as you just said you have been. You give love because you believe people deserve love.

There is 0 reason to give love to someone who never gives it back dude.

If you spread love you help make the world the way you want it to be through example, you can create a world where people are happier and more willing to make others happier as a result.

Maybe you will never receive love for yourself but you will be able to die knowing that you've lived by an ideal that made the world better.

Nah no thanks. There's 0 way that works either. A majority of people would have to be doing that to change the world.

It only takes one spark to light a forest.

Either way, it's something I'm doing because it makes no sense to define love as a transaction rather than charity and it just makes me feel like I'm dwelling in self-pity again by not putting my money where my mouth is and being the one to spread love to others, rather than expect it to be down to be. Rick and Morty nihilism just makes the world shit.

Dude if all it took was a single person being nice to make everyone nice it would have happened already.

>down to be
done to me*

I'm not even phoneposting lol.

I've lived on both sides of this social wall and honestly, nothing gives you validation better than yourself. Push yourself to best yourself and you'll always feel good about yourself. I've pushed myself to be a better drummer or a better mechanic and I've seen changes within myself. A good haircut is also a good attitude adjustment.

Now, that being said, having a companion on a different level than just a friend is nice. Nobody is perfect, nobody can make you truly happy but yourself. But as far as I'm concerned, having someone to talk to and lay next to at night is just icing on the cake that is life.

It's a process and one person being kind and spreading love does have an impact. As long as you are talking to people who are talking to people who are talking to people then you're reaching out to the entirety of your community and spreading your ideas to each member therein.

Self validation is important but it needs a baseline of external validation in order to be truly secure.

I do love. I love a great deal. I get a lot of pleasure out of loving. It's never returned.

I'll always want validation from my dad, but I'll never get it. The only way I can best him is to be a better father than he was, which I've already accomplished. I've been in my daughter's life more than he's been in mine and she's only 2.

If you can't stand to be by yourself and constantly need the validation and affection of others, then I don't know what to say. The first step in truly loving yourself is being able to go periods of time by yourself. Doing things by yourself and doing things for yourself. What happens when you don't have that validation from others and have to solely depend on yourself, but can't? Know yourself, learn to be able to be by yourself. Love yourself, and face the world with self confidence, not confidence that gets taken away the moment your significant other decides they don't want to be with you.
Yes, we're social animals, and yes, affection from others is great. But if we get lost in other's validation and forget to appreciate our own, self validation, then we don't really have a strong foundation of being.

I've been trying to give it to people who have been claiming to want friendship and love but they keep going cold on me and it ends up making me feel like I wasted their time and my own.

I didn't mean to imply that it would be returned, it's a way to live by your words and give what you'd like to receive in the hopes that it makes even a tiny sphere of the world a better place.

And you will always be lesser because of your dad's abandonment. Think who you could have been if you had got it. Think who you could have been if your mother never gave you validation, along with your father. Think who you could have been if the mother of your daughter had never validated you.

>I didn't mean to imply that it would be returned,
Then your comment isn't really relevant is it?

If your theory were true then other people would be>loving because they were loved and this user>46594432 would have love returned because the world is being made better. Take your feel good phony bs elsewhere.

I've been by myself for so long. All I have is self validation. Living off solely off of self validation is as fragile a thing as living solely off the validation of others. You're lost without affection. It's not just nice. It's essential, especially if you want to avoid the nihilistic solipsism that has infected this board and the wider world at large.

Well, I'd probably still be doing what I do now. I'm a mechanic and I've always worked with my hands, with or without my dad's help. My mom always supported me and still does.

I actually rescued her. Her dad tried to kill her and I put her up in a hotel so she could sort herself overnight. We met through a drummer in a local band's Facebook page lol.

Life is tough, no matter what path you take. Unless someone is literally dropping money into your bank account, you'll probably struggle at some point or another.

I wouldn't trade the hardships for the world. I'm not a Christian by any means, but Dear Younger Me by Mercy Me really resonates with me. It puts into words how I feel about quite a few things.

I'm 28 and never had a gf or sex. Through my 20's I always lied to myself and would make excuses like it will jsut come, you'll get more confident. First it was "once alcohol is legal to buy you'll get pussy because it takes the edge off", then it as "once u finish your degree it will give you confidence", then it was once you get that job you'll be more confident, then it was "hey i moved out of my parents house and am doing a lot better financially, now i'll get laid"

it never came, and this year i have realized it probably never will. There is no light at the end of the tunnel, there was something very critical I missed out on from a young age that sent my boat down the wrong river and its too late to turn back. Honestly being a virgin at this age was not that bad when in the back of my mind I had delusional hope. But just this last few weeks i've made it pretty clear that I can't do it. My guess is i'll probably make it to about 32 or 33 before I end it.

I know the misanthropic mental state quite well. I've attempted and failed suicide 3 times because I eventually just said "fuck it"

I guess I'm still needed here. I've always been a loner at heart though. Sometimes people are too much effort.

No one gets the black plague or polio anymore but other diseases still exist, does this mean that the medical sciences that made the plague and polio non-threats didn't make the world a better place?

You're critiquing something you're taking no steps to fix. You're seeing yourself as someone who should only give love when it's a transaction but you're clearly someone who doesn't benefit from a society where people see love as something worth giving only when it's a transaction.

What happens to kids loved deeply by their families but hated deeply by their peers? What happens to their outlook on the world?

>>No one gets the black plague or polio anymore but other diseases still exist, does this mean that the medical sciences that made the plague and polio non-threats didn't make the world a better place?
Absolutely nothing to do with loving people unconditionally making the world better. Would have happened thousands of years ago if it worked you philistine.

>Dear Younger Me by Mercy Me
user, you're a basic retard.

I have no problem with love as a transaction. Romantic love is always a transaction. That's the nature of it. That's the benefit of it. That's what I want. Partaking in universal love doesn't alter that in any way shape or form.

It's an analogy. Things are bad but they were worse, people used to be meaner, there used to not be laws, people used to kill cripples and unwanted babies outright, murder rates were much higher in medieval times. Disagreeing with most people won't get you killed now. There's still lots of cruelty but that isn't evidence that the world wouldn't be crueler if one kind person in history were gotten rid of.

lol, I know. Sappy fuckin song, all that my boss plays is Christian radio, so I'm a lil fucked.

My favorite band is The Ramones. The surgical precision of Johnny's guitar playing was always much more mesmerizing to me than any fancy shit.

Shit, I love me some horrorcore/noise rap like Dog Leather. Idc what I listen to, I was jammin to Crazy Frog earlier today.

Jesus christ you're a cringey cunt.

yeh, and we're all posting on a board known for NEETS, piss jugs, mom clinging and >tfwnogf

I think we all can look in the mirror and cringe, my nigga

I drive a 96 Rav4, to add another layer of roast.

Universal love would mean that people like yourself would be built up and included where they would had otherwise been brought down and ostracized. The benefit is how it can uplift a person's spirits, being something that's only given when it's received means many people will not receive this benefit as you can be as unfair and excluding as you wish with a transaction. Universal love is what makes more people care about being alive. Love as a transaction is not.

Love is a chemical reaction that tells animals to breed

Stop being sappy faggots

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WUBBA LUBBA DUB DUB I'M PICKLE RIIIICK xD

>Water is a chemical reaction that quells thirst
Just live without water, losers.

Fucking based. walk on son.

What makes love feel special is its exclusivity. If you love everyone you love no-one.

Your daughter is definitely going to attempt to kill herself once she realizes what kind of person her dad is.

I feel like the worst part is how we're demonized for wanting this. I feel evil and creepy for my fantasies of cuddling with women

Being friends or a better family member to someone helps them give a shit about life. If you love everyone you better everyone.

>demonized for wanting this
Even worse, they can somehow know when you feel vulnerable/ desire real affection and purposely avoid anyone who does.

I don't even know how to love or be there for someone. If someone confides in me I always feel I say the wrong things

Since desperation is unattractive the longer you go without the more unattractive you become. Fantastic system

And yet who helps you give a shit about life? Your love is an airy nothing, empty, facile, inhuman.

I'm usually not depressed and I noticed wanting love makes them not want you and when I genuinely didn't give a fuck they wanted me. The depression thing though is precisely why the suicide rate is skyrocketing.

Because being able to have sex and get into relationships is seen has a basic casual thing that everyone should know how to do. It's both simultaneously, No Big Deal and the Biggest Deal Ever.

>And yet who helps you give a shit about life?
John will help Jeremy give a shit about life because I helped John give a shit about life. Is that not worth it? Two people would now have hope because of one person's actions.

It's like how rich people treat the poor. I fully believe in capitalism because they way human relationships work mirror it perfectly.

But who will help you give a shit about life?

But who helps YOU user?

All political systems have their root in human nature or they wouldn't exist in the first place. Communism works very well on a small scale.

I don't see communism reflected in human sexual or romantic relationships at all. Women only want the top tier Chads

Me. People like me aren't suffering as much as they were because of my actions and the example I set can carry on to a exponentially larger population of people. That's something that can give me more purpose than I otherwise would've had, also feel good chemicals.

>Universal love would mean that people like yourself would be built up and included where they would had otherwise been brought down and ostracized. The benefit is how it can uplift a person's spirits, being something that's only given when it's received means many people will not receive this benefit as you can be as unfair and excluding as you wish with a transaction. Universal love is what makes more people care about being alive. Love as a transaction is not.

All that would achieve is making people discount love.

Have you ever had some Christian come up to you and be all

>Well ya know, GOD loves you, user! He loves you unconditionally! He loves all of us, actually!

Hey, great. You know what? That doesn't help. And universal love wouldn't help.

It's not even really the same thing. The same word has come to be used to describe two entirely different states of emotion. One of those states is about possession, and about being possessed; the other is...a mere abstraction, as impersonal and noumenal as the promise of the devotion of a deity no one has ever seen. I'm interested in the former. I don't see myself crossing the street for the latter - even if you could deliver it.

>Even worse, they can somehow know when you feel vulnerable/ desire real affection and purposely avoid anyone who does.

How did that happen? How did this come to be true?

I can't believe that the principle of least interest was *always* the dominant element in human romantic relationships. It's virtually absent from any pre-20th century literary resource. If it was as common and obvious in the past as it is now, you'd think *someone* would have written about it.

but who will love you?

this so much
i crave love but its an illusion and i am really at my best hanging out with my old disillusioned buddies who would never betray me

When sex is cheap, poverty is repellent.

I would need love less because I give love.

they become alpha chad anarchists usually, especially if they had a nice mom

Unfortunately this doesn't make sense.

In classic literature like Count of Monte Cristo, shakespere, etc. Passionate men were seen as attractive by the women in the books. Like morel basically stalking his interest was seen as romantic by her.

In modern times, movies, tv, magazines have all been written in the opposite fashion. Emotion of any kind (including anger now) is seen as weak and unattractive and the more you want someone or love specifically the more I've personally experienced being ghosted on or talked about.

>I feel evil and creepy for my fantasies of cuddling with women

I think it's because this implies a certain degree of adoration, and you're not supposed to adore anyone now. You're supposed to keep things casual.

Wanting to fuck someone is OK. Wanting to adore them is not.

>my mom always supported me

yeah, you have the baseline. absent dads actually make you chad

Mm I think you have a point OP. I didn't realize how painful everything was till I fell in love with someone I wanted to be with.

He kinda knew how I felt too and it took a while for us to get our guards down. Now that I know what it's like to be happy I want to make everyone else feel it too, but I can't imagine why other people don't feel similar.

It's because women have the most unrestrained sexual freedom they've ever had now. This is their true natural preferences at work.

Just wanting to be cared about is weak and loserish now.

They become highly strung, anxious emotionally needy losers. The whole point of the shift in the baseline between familial love and platonic love is the legitimatizing of the Self as an entity distinct from one's bloodline. Without platonic love, you will only ever be somebody's son, never you own man.

All I've wanted is to care about someone and have them care back. To have just one person in this world I can trust and relax around and do my best for. But I'll never have it.

>All that would achieve is making people discount love.
Why would it do that? Expressions of love can change to fit. This is also why I don't think your analogy works, the Christian telling you that God loves us unconditionally isn't necessarily doing anything to be loving, he might say that to comfort his child and show it love but he'd might also give the child a hug and reassure them in other appropriate ways. Love changes to fit.

Same, I empathize with you. It's pretty bad when you think you succeed and the rug gets pulled out from under your feet every time.

I explained why it makes sense, because the giving of love comes with purpose and happy happy brain chemicals. You will feel less ostracized and terrible simply through the expression of love.

Most robots hate themselves: how can you love somebody if you can't love yourself? You need personal validation before you seek validation from others.

>he'd might also give
he might also*

You know, I never thought of it this way but it's totally true. Everything is casual, laidback, no drama. There's no passion to love now, no crystallization (as Stendhal would put it). Feminism has told women that love is a trap as Porn has told men that love is just a delusion brought out by sexy chemicals. What was once sweet and transcendental is now sordid and material. Romance is now cringe. And they wonder why divorce is rampant.

>You will feel less ostracized and terrible simply through the expression of love.
No I won't.

You will because purpose and chemicals.

>how can you love somebody if you can't love yourself? You need personal validation before you seek validation from others.
The worst thing about cliches like this is that they're always fucking lies.

>Everything is casual, laidback, no drama
Ironically they are simultaneously more dramatic about everything on social media.

How can you one person love yourself when hundreds of others do not love you. That many people cannot be that wrong

But what surprises me is that it also seems like wanting to *care* is *also* seen as weak and loserish.

>Oh come on, grow up! (Rolls eyes.)

I could almost understand that people would feel burdened by someone who wants or needs care or affection. But why do they now also despise anyone who wants to care *for* them?