Why does meat cause heart disease?

Doesn't account for factors like vegans will normally are more likely to live a healthy lifestyle and are less likely to be obese. Partially because of lifestyle partially because of diet.

Because most vegetables have trace amount of B12. The ones having it in somewhat adequate amount are mushrooms (still not really) and seaweeds. Well for non-Japanese seaweed is harder to get and might be expensive in the long run.

If we are talking about natural ways of ingesting B12, you just have to not wash your vegetables thoroughly. For example most herbivores obtain it from the soil, roots of the plants they eat, traces left etc. It is very well possible that humans must consume a small amount of animal products in order to get B12 but I have not seen any scientific papers on trace of cobalt and raw, unwashed vegetable consumption VS washed and treated. It is possible that the soil itself also plays a role.

Well if they do it out of a fad diet and "aww let's help animals" then they are not in it to win it. Also you need to eat a shit ton of food to gain weight on a vegan diet.

No dude. Science disagrees with you.

Inflammation causing calcium build up in arteries from high carb/auger consumption COMBINED with high LDL cause HD. Not meat alone

Emotionally charged unsubstantiated claims aren't science.

IDK, but I'd rather die with heart disease than live a life without meat.

you'd have to be a complete fucking moron to believe this image.

/thread

Wrong.
Processed meat is *definitely* a carcinogen. Dishonestly labeling it "semi reliable data" is the behaviour of a Jew animal farmer afraid to lose his shekels.
Similarly, all animal protein (regardless of nitrate content, which is what pushes processed meats to definite carcinogens), is labeled as "probable carcinogen".
Furthermore, you seem to be ignoring the effect of dietary cholesterol on serum LDL, which in turn causes heart disease.

>in vegans
>source: oxford vegetarian study
>vegans
>vegetarian study
hmmmmmm

Heart disease is 75% lower in France than the UK despite eating the same amount of red meat.

It's almost as if, there are confounding variables?? Like calories?? and overall diet?? Too much for a tiny vegan brain to contemplate.

>Lifelong vegans
Nice bait.

>maybe vegans who a concious about their diet is also concious about other things related to their health compared to the average fucking fat retard
I fucking hate plant niggers with a passion

Didn't some autist do the math on this to find out the actual increase is like 1 or 2 percent?

It's like you know that veganism is innately more healthy and eating meat isn't but your cognitive dissonance doesn't allow you to admit it.

No doubt you'll come back with >muh sugar tho which is a retarded argument because some vegans eat a fuck-tonne of sugar, processed or natural

The French Paradox is a myth. It's a combination of heart disease being under reported, a lag in onset of cases, the supposed protective effects of red wine against heart disease and another factor I can't remember off the top of my head. It isn't real retard.

In the time it took to type your useless reply out you could have googled it. Useless vegan retard.

Not him but
>google my bullshit argument for me
0/10

Vegans are more likely to be more health conscious than meat eaters. Meaning they probably exercise more and eat less sugar and junkfood.

Tell me how to be as 'useful' as you. How about you link the google result which taught you the logical soundness of shifting the burden of proof? Was it from Time Cube? Or maybe The Spirit Science?

Attached: 1528198830958.jpg (900x900, 98K)

Why cant retards do moderation? Its pretty obvious loads of red meat is bad for you. Just eat it once a week for a treat.

>he thinks exercise isn't adjusted for
And no, 90% of vegans I know eat just as much if not more junk food which they justify by eating well all the time. Doesn't work how you think it does.

Is doing drugs once a week for a treat okay? What about 10 cigarettes on the weekend while drinking with friends? Where do you draw the line on unhealthy substances?
>pffft y u compare drugs and cigarettes to meat?
I'm simply comparing wilfully ingesting harmful substances with its likeness. Cigarettes will probably catch up to you, drugs will probably catch up to you and so will eating cholesterol, tmao, sfa, hca, phthalates, tfa, etc. It's literally cancerous

wow guess you can't read you utter retard
>the general population who are, on average, less mindful about what they eat and in the case of the US generally fat/obese
It's almost as if people who are careful about what they eat eat healthier than the general population who indiscriminatingly shovel shit into their mouths. Especially when most shit & convenient fast food tier crap vegans frequently can't actually eat.

>robbwolf

wow a paleotard

you ingest harmful shit all the time. You literally have organs designed to filter that harmful shit out. If you're going to compare cigarettes to meat then you have to compare everything else too. Because the two are not comparable on any other level.

What are you trying to say? You missed my point completely. Maybe this is the power of cognitive dissonance.

>Especially when most shit & convenient fast food tier crap vegans frequently can't actually eat.
Vegans have their own trash food they can eat. It's not simply locked down for omnivores.

>because we have these organs we should use them
Ah yes, I forgot that if you don't abuse your liver and kidneys somewhat regularly they just stop working.

>If you're going to compare cigarettes to meat then you have to compare everything else to
Like what? Of course we're talking about harm reduction as much as is practicable and you're talking about treating yourself to which I asked why "treat yourself" by harming your body. I can see where you're trying to lead this conversation.

>Because the two are not comparable on any other level.
>cigarettes: don't need them, an indulgence, completely useless and replaceable, carcinogenic
>meat: don't need it, an indulgence, completely useless and replaceable, carcinogenic, atherogenic

I'm trying to say, you broccoli-brained fuck, that A GROUP OF PEOPLE who make CHOICES REGARDING THEIR DIET are more likely to be healthy than the majority of people who DON'T CONSIDER WHAT THEY ARE EATING.
>Vegans have their own trash food
yeah true but it's generally harder to find, more expensive, or more inconvenient than other foods, especially compared to places where there's a mcdonalds on every street corner. Higher barriers to consumption = less consumption.

Show me the epidemiology that proves small amounts--

Most vegans don't make dietary choices though, they're making ethical choices. It's a difference. This is why you see so many sick vegans, they're retarded and have no idea what they're eating and veganism is an ethical position, not a dietary one.

/thread

Based entirely on science the longest living people live in the Mediterranean, and their diets are balanced between vegetables, nuts, fruits and meat, predominately fish and bird.

Simple fact:
Compare vegans to average person, vegans are more healthy because they dont eat junk food
Compare vegans to Mediterranean diet, vegans are less healthy because they lack basic minerals, vitamins, proteins and other nutrients.

Bad in what way? That it raises LDL? that vasoconstriction occurs and inflammation spikes? What is it specifically you want and I will consider finding it. I'm trying to enjoy a beer and I'm here to shitpost, not find studies for you.

Off the top of my head I know you can compare the pre-WW2 diet of Okinawans to post-WW2 Okinawans. Meat consumption increased to ~10% from what I remember up from

>abuse your liver and kidneys
not about abuse at all. It's kinda their fuckin job to get rid of the shit you don't need. That's why they're there. This includes literally anything you don't need. Fuckin vitamin C (natural and necessary for life!!) will give you kidney stones if you have too much of it, so they get rid of that, along with plenty of other things. I'm saying that you're always ingesting shit you don't need and can be harmful with you; your body deals with it, so this is an irrelevant argument.
>you're talking about treating yourself
nah actually a different guy, I just took issue with what you said there. My point would be that as things go, unprocessed meat's really not bad enough to worry it compared to it's benefits.

Longest living group in the world are vegans. Sorry buddy. Go look up the Adventist Health Study I and II

I mean abuse in the sense that you unnecessarily force them to do shit they don't have to do but should do anyway. Like when I tell my girlfriend she needs to do the fucking dishes because it's disgusting. Yeah, she's supposed to do them because I do the vacuuming and shit but it's still considered abuse to yell at her.

Shitty joke aside, I didn't mean abuse the way you think I did.

they make ethical choices that affect their diet. so... a dietary choice. I see what you're saying but I don't think the two are inseparable.

Once a month is much more the thing

so you mean abuse as in... get use out of? desu not surprised about that coming from someone who probably believes deriving use from animals = exploitation!!!1!! I mean I guess I could save myself the effort and not bike to work so that I don't unnecessary force my muscles to do shit but that seems a little silly you know?

>I don't think the two are inseparable
We'll agree to disagree then because there's really no point in arguing about semantics. My point is that because it's primarily an ethical choice no real thought goes into their dietary choices beyond that.

I'm not vegan so I don't believe that. My motorcycle gear is leather for example.

guess those okinawans that eat nothing but fish die just as early as normal people huh

Isn't that whole statistic meangingless when you take into consideration that most Americans (which happen to eat meat) eat like absolute garbage in general? They're not just eating regular meat, they're eating deep fried foods, candy, soda etc.

Which ones were they?

This meme that vegan food is inherently healthy needs to die. One of my favourite dishes when I can be fucked making it is deep fried tofu with homemade sweet and sour sauce. Horrid for you but vegan

They were eating like 70% sweet potatoes and ~98% vegan though. Not that I care, I like me some meat. Assuming you meant the japanese Okinawa and not some other group.

Gut flora metabolism of diet-derived choline, phosphatidylcholine and carnitine generates something called Trimethylamine-N-oxide (TMAO), which is associated with so-called "major adverse cardiac events".

the longer you live, the higher your chances of getting some kind of heart related medical issue

I'm saying because of the fact that they're making ethical choices which affect their diet, they will subsequently have to make dietary choices. One of those is not eating animal products. One of those is what to substitute for those animal products. In making those choices they are likely to consider, for example, health benefits. Also there are people who become vegan cause they thinks it's healthier as their primary reason, and they especially will make healthier choices. I think that in this instance these two things are very related, one causes the consideration of the other.

lol you're not vegan? So just anti-meat then?

>Adventist Health Study I and II
Were proven fake. Well done you proved nothing.

Okinowans eat pork you fucking moron

oh yeah also, in regards to the whole unnecessary work thing, while motorbiking you're breathing more toxic chemicals than you would be in a car. That's unnecessary work for your body to filter out those fumes.

>for example, health benefits
I disagree with you there. They tend to go straight for processed mock meats.

>Also there are people who become vegan cause they thinks it's healthier as their primary reason, and they especially will make healthier choices.
That's why I went vegan before realising that I didn't really share the same ethical values as vegans. Now I just say I'm vegan for ease of explanation but really I just follow the diet. People like me are extreme rarities in my experience. Like less than 1/10 vegans are pure health vegans. I agree that they are related though.

Oh, rad. That changes everything.

Yeah, basically. It's trash.

Yeah, now they do. Never used to though.

Nah I ride too fast for the toxins to keep up it's 100% healthy

>They tend to go straight for processed mock meats
those tend to be pretty spennie though. I doubt (x) that someone could reasonably afford that frequently. Anecdotal I know but most of the vegan meat I've seen is just stuff like pea protein with few additives, and most vegans I know very very infrequently use that stuff. Also worth mentioning that the vegan movement tends to overlap with the ~~holistic wellbeing~~ bullcrap too.

>It's trash.
I'd argue with you on this but it looks like you're busy enough doing that with someone else
>ride too fast for the toxins to keep up
kek'd

How so?

I went to look at what mock meats I had left from when I bought them and I don't have any so I can't argue about what's in them because I don't remember. Anecdotally I and others I know used them almost exclusively when going vegan initially. Haven't run into any holistic faggots or those fruitarians but I know they're huge on youtube.

>I'd argue with you on this but it looks like you're busy enough doing that with someone else
Thanks bro. Usually I'd argue the point with you if you wanted. It's fun sometimes.

Meat probably requires more energy to digest thus the heart has to work harder. The statistics then become
>people whose heart work harder has higher risk of it going wrong

This is quite possibly one of the most mumscience statements I've ever seen. Do certain coloured foods contain more calories? Does all your food have to be chilled so you don't gain weight?

Prove it's obvious. You can eat unprocessed red meat daily. In fact it's incredibly healthy. Stop spreading misinformation.

it doesnt
that study is complete trash.

>lifelong vegans.
So you had what, 8 samples?

Vegans as a group of people are folks who are tremendously concerned with their health. If you compared them to the general population in any stat, i’m sure they would out perform the average.

But that’s not necessarily an apples to apples comparison. You would have to compare health nut vegans to health nut meat eaters.

Then I think you’d see a leveling of differences. Or at least have a fairer comparison

Literally what the fuck are you on about

>India
>second lowest per capita meat consumption in the world
>Cardiovascular diseases, especially coronary heart disease (CHD), are epidemic in India.
sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214999616300297