The problem with incels is that it's only socially acceptable to be voluntarily single/a virgin if you're a woman

I can claim they are wrong as much as they do to us, the beauty of free speech is that this is a phylosophy question, not necessarily one based on numbers. All I see is compiled in my mind and world vision, and that is my source, is a rooted deep-minded feeling I have and here I can share. We don't have the burden of proof, you can believe in what you want, we will never change.

That's a very long winded way of saying agree to disagree, but you know what, I agree with you on that. You won't change my point of view and I doubt I'll change yours, so I can respect us recognising that and leaving each other be(:

What if it was voluntary?
This is what I'm talking about, it's completely impossible for anyone to comprehend a guy who willingly puts other interests/priorities ahead of sex/relationships

You can just not tell anyone you're a virgin. that's what I do. No one has asked since I was in school

Nobody cares if you are a virgin. The problem with incels is that they are angry and lash out at everyone and blame everyone else for being virgins even they are virgins by their own choice.

>they are virgins by their own choice

Incels still want a woman and still want sex. But they will never get any of that because they're not good looking.

That's not possible. If someone wants sex he can get it. Not having sex is only possible by choice.

Incels are ugly on the inside. Usually lookswise they are fine.

Only with hookers. There is no other way.

And bars and tinder and so on. Not having sex is a choice and can be nothing else.

>And...
Don't work. Only paid for.

Yes they work. Not at 100% of course and it takes some effort but still doable. That is why men go to hookers, for the convenience.

How do I know if that's my case?
Sure I see sex as offputting and stressful and I have anxiety, low self esteem, am bitter and all that, but deep inside I'm not even sure I actually desire companionship since I'm constantly projecting myself into unrealistic anime-tier daydreams about relationships but would probably lack the will and commitment to get into a real one.

>Ugly on the inside
Could you explain what this means and what you meant by it?
>Incels looks are fine
Looks determine all social interactions, women specially. Incels are just down right ugly.

KHHV here, it's not that I'm ugly, just that my body language and the entire way I carry myself is absolute dogshit and gives it away immediately that I hate myself and am socially retarded

Incels are angry and entitled. Everyone sees them as hateful and bitter beings. No girl is attracted to that.

Yeah I am being asked to do something I don't want to do.

Like if they found them attractive otherwise.

Bullshit, know a guy who's a complete sperm around girls but still has sex with then because they found him attractive.

The reason why I'm angry at normalfags isn't necessarily because I'm unable to be one of them but because they treat people who don't want to partake in their lifestyles as literal aliens and worse than human trash.
Do I want sex and affection? Sure, the need for validation and being desired is attractive to me. Since I'm human I want to be loved and to know someone who isn't my mom gives a shit about me.
Do I want a girlfriend though? Definitely not, I'm introverted to probably unhealthy levels and the idea of having someone to constantly take care of, have to talk to, do stuff with, and more generally put so much work, time and effort into is very off-putting to me. There's the ideal relationship, the shit you see in movies, and then there's the reality of things, that requires a lot of stress for a payoff I don't find worth it.
Tell that to normalfags and they'll look at you like you spat in their face, even though that point of view doesn't stem from hatred of women or bitterness or whatever else Jow Forums cunts like to accuse us of.

That's what makes me insecure and uncomfortable, those expectations and standards that make me trash if I dare not conform to them.
I don't like it when people speak of relationship like it's something so evident and natural. Maybe it is to them, and I'm sure at least one retard ITT will chime in to ramble about our biological imperative, but it feels undermining.
So yeah I might be a broken husk so dysfunctional I'm not even willing to form a relationship with a woman, but I can't help it if people who aren't dysfunctional make me feel terrible about myself.

TL;DR pic related

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Do you seriously think Elliot wouldn't have got girls if he was a nice, outgoing, fun to be around guy?

You're making shit up again. Nobody cares if you don't want a relationship. There is not some normie conspiracy against you. Normies don't go out of their way to hate you.

So what I'm paranoid now?
It's true though, when I tell people I don't want a girlfriend they either become downright hostile or they tell me I actually do and am a hypocrite or something along those lines.
I don't like people who are unable to perceive anything outside of their own microcosm, and the issue of sex and relationships has a lot of those, people who can't imagine anyone disliking hookup cultures, going out, or even dating in general, despite not being a woman-hating caricature.
I guess I am bitter, because happy people annoy me, but I don't hate them.

Want to know how I know you don't lift?

If people are hostile to you it's because there is something wrong with you. Not wanting a gf wouldn't cause anyone to become hostile to you. There is something you are not telling.

>Want to know how I know you don't lift?
Tell me

>There is something you are not telling.
Like what?
I'm telling you, people see that as too weird and socially unacceptable.

>asking for a source that incels are disliked

Are you fucking retarded?

No he was an ugly hapa that not even he's parents liked since he was hard to look at.

The problem with incels is that its self inflicted. Nothing in society is forcing you to be a loner.

No one cares if you dont want a partner. There are a lot of people out there who dont. But your assuming a relationship means a lot of time and energy on your half, the reality is, if a relationship is hard chances are it's wrong. A good relationship shouldn't effect your lifestyle and aspirations, it's more like having your best buddy around all the time and if yall want to do different things then you go do them alone, without each other.

If you wanna stay home but her friend is having a party. Then you stay home and she can go have fun with friends

Oh, so incels are cool now? Well thanks for breaking our echo chamber, brainlet!

They're definitely mainstream now for the worst reasons. Incel = bitter creep rather than virgin boy/girl

Yeah my issue is I don't like being around people, even when I had friends it was tiring, I know a good relationship shouldn't be tedious but it does take effort.

And in that sense, maybe you arent meant for human interaction and that is okay. I'd say if someone gets butthurt over it, it's because they are having some internal issues, maybe even jealousy?

>women aren't entitled

Never heard anyone say that. Do you hang out with cavemen or something?

He was decent looking. Lots of guys uglier than him get laid easily. Elliot's problems were purely mental, this is a fact.

Not all women. Men and women are not that different. I think guys who dont interact with women irl have these weird alienated ideas of them but when you treat everyone the same, men and women, you find equal amounts of toxic men and woman and equal amounts of good hearted and oriented men and women and then there are the super creepy ones that you try to avoid

Yeah maybe. I'm still trying to figure out how I feel about my own choices though, for some reason I'm not entirely comfortable with my situation.
Nah I guess they take that + the fact that I'm obviously beta and they assume that my celibacy has to be involuntary

Incels are like women but worse.

Celibacy cannot be involuntary.

No ones truly comfortable, it's our natural desire to enhance ourselves and be better. But do you know what you want to change about yourself? Do you think you know what will make you more happy?

Let's not argue semantics, what I meant is they assume that I don't want to be alone because I'm socially awkward and not good with people.
Sometimes I don't want to be alone but then I jack off and it usually gets better
>But do you know what you want to change about yourself? Do you think you know what will make you more happy?
Not at all. There's nothing about how I currently am that requires a change imo, that's not being pretentious I'm just satisfied with who I am, but at the same time I have low self esteem which seems pretty contradictory.

It's true.
If you genuinely want to be a bachelor who lives alone and has no interest in sex, people are weirded out - "Are you gay?" "Why don't you marry?" "Are you in some cult?" It's stressful.
Whereas if you say that you do want sex but can't get it, at least people will sympathize even if they mock you.

This is the point we are discussing you cretin - that even though it is, at a certain point, a voluntary celibacy, it is more socially acceptable to say it's involuntary.
Society may pretend "Oh, you get alarmed by sex and don't want to engage it? That's fine! All sorts to make a world!", they are seriously creeped out by that attitude, because for normies, sex is everything. Whereas just saying "I want to get laid but can't" may make you a loser, but makes you a normie loser who won't acquire too much attention.

Low self esteem towards a certain thing like looks, or appearance, or anything like that. Or just a fleeting feeling of inferiority?

Just tell them you dont feel a motivation to have sex. Guys sometimes go nuts when they find out that me and my wife have only had each other in our lives for everything

>dont you think you're missing out?
No, if I thought I was missing out I'd change things, but how things are is the way I like them to be.

It's as simple of a response as that

>just a fleeting feeling of inferiority?
Both I guess, I feel insecure about my appearance and that probably contributes to my awkwardness but I just don't feel good about myself in general

>Just tell them you dont feel a motivation to have sex. Guys sometimes go nuts when they find out that me and my wife
Stopped there.
What is wrong with normies, exactly? Why are they incapable of reading a post?
I have said I don't want sex, I don't want a partner, I don't want any of that. I've explained that this mindset is so alien to normies that the hassle of being held in horror by them is less preferable than just lying and saying you don't want sex. And the first thing this normie does is say "Just say you don't want sex" AND THEN "My wife and I...", as if his already not needed advice was somehow helped by this assertion.

Well funny enough, the awkwardness is countered with real human interaction. Kids are weird and cringy as fuck but once they get older they seem to grow out of it, because they have learned via humiliation. Even as an adult you make awkward humiliating mistakes and it curves your behavior.

It's the same whether your hot having sex or your married. People wanna know why you arent out there slaying ot. Why arent you trying to get action all the time (which rarely people are like this outside of the internet) my advice still stands. Tell them you arent interested in sex and if they ask why you tell them the truth. That you just dont feel the desire