Why incels are volcels in denial

I refuse to believe that people prefer to date people they find attractive, what has this world come to baka.

Why are cunts incapable of making an argument independently? We've made this argument before, how women do not even see robots, they just see Chad. And now I see it gender flipped, even though it's quite clearly bullshit as evidenced by the fact that on Jow Forums anyone can claim to be a woman, not show pictures, and STILL get tons of desperate men asking her to be his gf. Try being a robot and going to a crystal.cafe thread where they complain about having no bf, and sharing your email address - you'll get banned, but also, you'll get no response. Thus, the argument only applies for men, and not women.

God damn cunts are so stupid.

oh look it's dodging the point that women have higher standards than men.

they're techniques are silencing and shaming and they are very successful

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Then they shouldnt call themselves involuntary celibate if they exclude a certain group of women who they dont find attractive. Dumbfuck

>mfw a femcel consider a male 6/10 to be looksmatched with a female 3/10 because the man is socially awkward

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I mean incels don't exist

this is bullshit

I regularly see 2/10 women with 6/10 men or above in the street all the time

80% of the girls are being fucked by 20% of the men make and female attraction distributions do not overlap

Not gonna lie. I could have a 3/10 gf. But that's not fair for her or me. I don't find her attractive and would have to force myself to get intimate. A shitty situation for us both.

I fully realize I am a virgin because I have bad hygiene, am a manlet, skin and bones and have a smoking addiction but fixing all that just to get a gf who might or might not dump me for various reasons, that just seems like a lot of work

These threads always make me cry. While I usually am fine with the fact that no woman could want a loser like me, these threads almost try to force false hope onto you by portraying women in a light that doesn't exist. Ugly women do not want ugly men.

>Volcel.
Doesn't want sex, or abstaining from it for some reason.
>Incel.
Can't get sex or are too naive to realise that they could.

Eyoooooo.

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True. Even uglyass women genuinely, delusionally think they deserve Chad, and threads like this one go to great lengths to obscure that reality.

What if i don't want sex with someone iam not attracted to. What am i?

This is straight from the femcels subreddit you fucking nigger, it's all fake

I guess no one truly wants to be rich. I mean you could just pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get it if you really wanted it!

Kill yourself you piece of shit

Women don't realize that men don't just fuck girl on their level. A horny 10/10 would fuck a 5/10. That girl suddenly thinks her sexual value is much higher.

You can do that, but don't complain about not getting any. If you're refusing to lower your standards a bit, then it's completely your fault. However, I do understand the frustation of working out for years, getting a high paying job from studying hard, working on social skills, therapy, etc. and still being forced to settle with a 2/10 whore because women can date up. We live in a society frfr

What's the point in sex if i don't enjoy it. I rather die as a virgin than fuck a 2/10.

>Women don't want fat, autistic, mean spirited spergs

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4/10 fat slags think they deserve 9/10 Chad though.

A 4/10 robot can only get a 1/10 obese hamplanet

If you don't wanna have sex with someone who offers you it, even if they're ugly, you're sort of a volcel.
Like, you voluntarily refused sex, but you're still an incel kind-of, it's a grey area, an "in-between".

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Fuck you faggots. I was able to communicate with women just fine before I started browsing through this board and getting ''red pilled'' by you. Now I ended up being all fucking bitter about the smallest possible things and I can't even socialize with people properly anymore without spilling my beans about something, BIG FUCK YOU to all who try to reinforce this kind of piece of shit mentality.

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This so much. The red pill is a self fulfilling prophecy.

>not being able to be red-pilled and still able to interact with women on a basic level.

Weak. You just have to remember to keep them at arms length, never get more involved with them than necessary and not become in any way invested in them. It's not fucking hard.

Stop calling things "volcel". It is a redundant portmanteau.

yes of course, still keep the incel mind-set and everything related to it while trying not to act like one, good on you

Resident r9k rapper here, gonna hijack this bait thread to remind you to check out our latest robot music!

youtube.com/watch?v=V-QJxmb4FQI

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It's not really true that incels don't want their looksmatch. For the most part, they would be happy to accept their looksmatch.

The problem is with the definition of looksmatch.

Incels I've talked to usually define it mechanistically, by taking their own flaws and assigning them to theoretical women, and then looking at the result. So they think:

>Well, I'm kinda short, so my looksmatch is short
>Well, I'm skinnyfat, so my looksmatch is skinnyfat
>Well, I have frizzy hair, so my looksmatch has frizzy hair

...And so forth. But there's an entirely different way one could come up with one's looksmatch: by measuring how far below the theoretical average you are, and then looking for a woman who was also that far below the theoretical average. And most incels don't do this, because it produces an entirely different pool of women than using the first method.

I'll use myself as an example:

>Exactly average height
>Below average BMI
>Low muscle tone
>Thin, straight red hair
>Freckles

If you just assemble a female with those characteristics, she'd actually be kind of adorable. So if I'm not dating that girl, in a sense I can stomp around and grumble FUCKING STUCK UP BITCHES WON'T DATE THEIR LOOKSMATCH!!

But let's say I use the second method instead. If I use the second method, and declare that I'm - say - 15% below the theoretical average, and look at a woman who is also 15% below the theoretical average, do you know what I discover?

That she's fucking obese. Not just overweight - in 2018 in the United States the theoretical average for women is overweight. 15% below average? Fucking obese. And that throws out a huge portion of the characteristics I used in the first method.

So you end up with a situation where an incel who looks like me is out there looking for his looksmatch, and doesn't realize he's defining it wrong - because his true looksmatch is fucking obese, but since he's not obese that seems impossible to him.

>mean spirited

Quick interjection: can you define mean spirited?

A great many people use the term, but I find that very few people have any remote idea what it actually means. And that even the few people who do know what it means can't defend its application when they are asked to be more specific.

i don't think looks match goes as far as exactly the same hair type but it should go as far as the same amount of effort into their bodies.

>i don't think looks match goes as far as exactly the same hair type but it should go as far as the same amount of effort into their bodies.

Effort doesn't count. Incels want to think that effort counts, even though that concept is an element of the Just World theory that they elsewhere decry. Results don't even count, really - what counts is the relationship of your result to the theoretical average for your gender.

Again, I'm a good example. I'm a skelly. Is my female looksmatch a skelly? Well, no. Because being a skelly puts me below the average for men - but a female skelly is hugely above average.

Does it matter if one, both, or neither of us put any effort into being a skelly? No, not really. It doesn't matter if we put in the same effort. We reached the same result - but that doesn't matter either. What matters is that being a skelly is a bad result for a guy, and a fucking excellent result for a girl.

This is why I know there are no girls for me. I mean another way of looking at it is if you are not a 9 or 10 the best you can get is two grades lower than yourself. If I'm a 6 or a 5 on a bad day the best I could get is a 3. Disgusting, I'll commit suicide or stay alive celibate and miserable instead.

Baby boomers had it easier....

So sick and tired of these ebin meme threads. Show me one girl - any girl - who would even so much as want to talk to me, let alone date. Protip: you literally can't because even a down's syndrome 12 feet tall spherical-fat deformed hikki neet on the verge of being homeless won't give me the time of day. And somehow nobody is able to tell me why either. It must therefore follow that they only want chad, because in any other circumstances, either they would give it a try at least once, or I would be told what's wrong with me at least once.

You made the fallacy of looking at statistics for one group but only looking at your feelings for the other group. Average male BMI in the US is 28.6 (almost obese). It's 29.8 for women. If a man was 15% below average, or a 32.9 BMI, the equivalent woman would be 34.3. Barely a difference, both obese.
But you also imply that thin incels deserve obese women. Obviously from these numbers, that's not true at all. An average-range normal-weight (i.e. not even thin, let alone shredded or Jow Forums, which ultimately is every gymcel, for example) of 23 BMI deserves, by your own measure, a woman with 24 BMI. Both would be perfectly healthy, even though your feefees tell you they should be looking for a landwhale.

TL;DR: you're full of shit even despite making disfavorable assumptions about the incels.
Too bad, because the spirit of your point is correct. Problem is, I could bet that the average incel would deserve minimum a 8/10 girl if we used the criteria you're going for across valuematch.

I'm not ugly though I am average so I look for average women and above.

Fags here jerk to butterfaces and women have the audacity to call us Stacysexuals. Anything to absolve blame am I right femanons?
>Well uh guys do it too so like uh its not our fault?

>Incels don't want their looksmatch

The evidence that female """""incels""""" are this way is far strongerr.

How delusional can you be? Nobody cares about statistics. If I am only slightly ugly I look for women I consider slightly ugly not obese hamplanets.

Personality doesnt matter only looks, I know a guy who is a total introvert that has women blowing kisses at him due to his Chad face but he ignores them.

There is no point. The world needs more male suicides and I'll be happy to contribute

But I know balding mid-20's scrawny glasses-wearing awkward lanklets and they get girlfriends. Granted, hideous girlfriends, but still. Why can't we?

i'm not in denial, i realized my looksmatch would be some disgusting roastie whore so i decided to forgo stupid sluts entirely, 36 years old now and i haven't even held the hand of a girl and i don't care to either if my looks match is an ogress.

Yeah it fucking sucks that I'm ugly and am only attracted to attractive people

I can't help it

How easy does he get gfs? The guy I mention has women cooing to him constantly.

No, no, no. You're using BMI according to the first method, and not the second.

It's not "I'm this much off the average BMI, therefore I should be with a woman who is a similar distance off the normal BMI as me". It's "Being a skelly puts me in the bottom 35% of men for attractiveness, and a woman in the bottom 35% of attractiveness for women is obese - always."

There are a very large number of scrawny men in the bottom 35% of attractiveness. There are no thin women in the bottom 35% of attractiveness - or, at least, so few as to be statistically insignificant: burn victims, hermaphrodites, mtf traps, etc. And the vast majority of those guys don't see an obese woman in their minds when they're thinking of their looksmatch.

I don't know, I just know he is engaged now and he's been with the girl he's with for a long time. Who cares about girls cooing at him? Who says they'd stick with him after talking to him for 5 minutes, for example? Conversely, I'm significantly more interested in what I can do to get a gf since the valueless nerd managed to get one without problem.
Plus you said personality doesn't matter. If that were the case he wouldn't have had any girlfriend, so there must be other factors at play. It seems important to identify them.

[citation needed] in all respects.

A Chad can cuck you in a minute thats why personality doesnt matter. Reminder to all who have gfs she gave her vagina to a Chad who didnt know her name after talking for 10 minutes while you have to work for the pussy.

That wouldn't imply that personality doesn't matter, it would merely imply that personality is, at best, secondary to looks.

>And somehow nobody is able to tell me why either.
Probably because you're full of self-pity, the most universally unattractive human trait.

Let's break the argument down into specific premises, so you can clarify for me which one(s) you think need citations:

1. The bottom 35% of the male population for attractiveness contains a significant number of men with low BMIs (e.g. the stereotypical Napoleon Dynamite dork character or the scrawny pocket-protector wearing math nerd).

2. The bottom 35% of the female population for attractiveness contains relatively few women with low BMIs, because thinness in women is nearly always automatically considered an attractive characteristic.

3. This means that if the bottom 35% of men are assortatively paired with their "looksmatches" in the bottom 35% of women, it is statistically inevitable that a large number of men with low BMIs will end up matched to obese women.

4. Despite this statistical inevitability, most of the men facing the prospect of #3 matches don't consider obese women their looksmatch.

The first two seem to me to be absolutely trivial observations and should be noncontroversial. #3 is just math. #4 is a speculation, sure - but is it really an outlandish one?

This only proves average looking women have it way better than average men. The standards for men are way higher. Women only need to not be fat and they are set. Average Men have to jump through hoops to land some female who can't move without a scooter. By this stanard every woman gets a man but plenty of short or fat men are left to die alone

>muh looksmatch

80% of men are uglier than 20% of women. a genderswapped woman is probably going to be ugly as fuck

>This only proves average looking women have it way better than average men.

No, it doesn't. It proves that many men's idea of the average hasn't caught up to modern obesity rates, yet.

If you aren't fat, you can't look at yourself and think, "Hey, I should date 'me as a chick' - you know, an average girl." If you aren't fat, you as a chick are probably what is now considered "hot", and not average at all.

That's what makes the trap-lure threads here have that evil ring of truth. A lot of guys with absolutely no dating prospects at all...would actually be fairly cute chicks, if they could just snap their fingers and be chicks. (Which the hormones don't actually do, BTW, so don't be misled.)

Except I'm not. Why don't you try interacting with me for even just one minute before making such assumptions?

That's not what the 80:20 means.

I don't really understand looksmatch
How can you objectively scale the attractiveness of a man and woman such that you pair them up based on equal attractiveness?

>Probably because you're full of self-pity, the most universally unattractive human trait.

Not that guy, but this isn't really true, either. If this is true, how do Jews reproduce? Where do baby Jews come from?

I don't think it's structurally possible to construct a sentence in Hebrew without including self-pity in there somewhere. No vowels; lots of self-pity - those are the top two grammatical rules for Hebrew.

You can have women rate men and men rate women, and then count how many people got each rating. Based on this you can unskew the distributions back to normalcy (or another fitting model) and distribute from there.

And if you're looks aren't up to snuff there is no point in trying to form a relationship that will be destroyed the second a born attractive Chad male is bored and decided to fuck your gf/wife

I'd rather know what love is before discarding half of mankind permanently than self-pity my way to an early grave thanks.

Being fat is a sign that a person lacks self-control, the more fat they are the less self-control they have.
The premise of looksmatch is flawed because it implies that's all that matters, but you need both people to have acceptable personalities.

Except these types of ratings have shown to be lopsided.

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Why is obesity not scored the same for both genders? If the average person is obese . A guy who isn't fat is automatically above average. Why does an obese woman automatically deserve a man with healthy bmi? Why does the obese man deserve to die with no body. Why does a moderately healthy bmi women deserve a man who is the top level of fitness?

You don't understand. We don't care about the value of the rating. We care about the distribution of the ratings, because we can unskew the values by using an appropriate model as well as the distribution of the rating. Here's your homework for today: figure out a valid statistical protocol to do just that. Hint: how many histograms are there in your pic? What do these histograms represent?

The female ratings of men aren't natively normally distributed, but you can re-distribute them, to place any given rated male into his "normal distribution" tranch. That would result in most men rising at least one tranch...at which point I bet they'd STILL end up matched to someone fatter than the picture of their looksmatch they're carrying around in their head.

You won't know what love is from a woman. That's a fools game

>Being fat is a sign that a person lacks self-control, the more fat they are the less self-control they have.
>The premise of looksmatch is flawed because it implies that's all that matters, but you need both people to have acceptable personalities.

This is, in fact, a very good counterargument.

It does abandon, however, the initial assertion that "all incels are asking for is their looksmatch". This new position is "all incels are asking for is their looksmatch, except if their looksmatch is fat, in which case it's only natural that they don't want their looksmatch because fat people are gross and have shitty personalities". (And I'd probably agree with all of that, but it does take us pretty far afield from the initial assertion.)

This right here. Woman will complain that men aren't looking for their "looksmatch" and are instead only looking for hot girls, but the moment you have any discussion of a woman you discover that they think almost all men are below average.
What does that mean? Every woman you ask that you think is on your level thinks that they are better than you, and when you are asking her out thinking "man I have a shot" they only view it as an insult, which leads to angry roasties like in OP's pic.

>Why is obesity not scored the same for both genders?

Because men like skinny women, and women don't like skinny men?

The premise is still ultimately flawed
If the woman loses weight then using your own logic she would then be way more attractive than the man and should end the relationship in pursuit of someone who "looksmatches".

There is natural genetic looksmatch and there is stuff you personally do looksmatch. For instance, how many of the women use makeup on dating sites? Is this fair in calculating looksmatch?

no man likes an anorexic bitch so as usual you show you're full of shit. Not to mention you answer 'why is obesity treated differently' with 'well if he's obese the gf should be obese' according to your model, which is contrary to the question.

>if you're incel get called volcel
>if volcel get called incel
You people are dumb. Who even fucking cares. What are you proving? Go fuck yourself.

It's nobody's logic but your own that people should end a relationship that is going well as soon as the looks no longer match.

I don't care about any of this incel/volcel shit and I'm distancing myself from all of it. I know I'm a decent looking guy with value, my only true issue is my autism sided with crippling social anxiety. I've been even called handsome few times, but that's just insult to injury. Having good looks and autismal robotic behavior just results in creepy serial killer vibes even though I want nothing but sweet true love.

I think all incels want to find love.
Looksmatch isn't enough to light the spark most incels desire.
I think even if women were much skinner, incels would exist.

Just look at Japan.
Hardly any obesity there, yet virginity rates are much higher than the west.
>however, the initial assertion that "all incels are asking for is their looksmatch"
I think this assertion is wrong, so in the end despite I kept saying your premise is wrong. I agree with your conclusion.

>no man likes an anorexic bitch so as usual you show you're full of shit.

This is absolutely not true.

Are pathologically anorexic women unattractive? Maybe in the last stages of their disease before death they are. In all the preliminary stages they're actually pretty fucking hot. And the clinically about-to-be-a-fatality ones are generally in asylums by that point, so you usually won't encounter them.

>Not to mention you answer 'why is obesity treated differently' with 'well if he's obese the gf should be obese' according to your model

No, it's not - and that's actually part of the problem. Here's the thing: I think all fat women - ALL of them - are gross. There is no "thicc" for me. There is no "but dat ass" for me. Fat = gross = always. So that means that if we're ranking women from the bottom up, we have to account for every last fat woman before we get to the least-attractive thin woman.

Am I the only guy in the world with this particular taste? Nope. Not by a long shot.

So the question then becomes: how many women consider *every last fat guy* gross? Is that number higher, or lower, than the number of guys who consider every last fat woman gross? I am convinced it's lower. If an overweight guy is tall, then many women will say, "Ooooo he's so POWERFUL!" Or if a guy is really muscular but has a fat gut, many women will say, "Oooooo I love that BEAR BOD he's got!" or something similarly absurd. So not every last fat guy is gross to them. And they also need room in their "grossest guys" ranks for pic related. That guy's presence in the low tier pushes some random fat guy UP one ranking. How many times does that happen? A lot more than it happens on the female side.

And after all these adjustments, you don't end up with obese guy = obese girl - not in every instance. In a lot of instances, you end up with scrawny guy = obese girl, which is a fucking nightmare I realize, but it's the hand we've been dealt.

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So the difference between an incel and a volcel is that an incel desperately wants to find love and laments it, while a volcel just accepted he won't find it and moved on to something else.

Why are you so toastie, roastie? Who pissed in your cereals? >>>/crystalcafe/

>Why are you so toastie, roastie? Who pissed in your cereals?

I'm not a chick, I just hate fat people. For wrecking the world for everyone.

A lot of people think that the whole incel phenomenon is a function of the spread of feminism, and while that is a factor I think fat people are much more to blame. As I said upthread, there are a lot of marginally-below-average guys who aren't fat and who imagine that they have female counterparts who also are marginally-below-average and who also *aren't fat*, but fat people wrecked that for us. Assortative mating was partially broken by the decline of monogamy, but it was fucking "Shock and Awe Bombing" broken by too many women getting way too fucking fat. Even if you could bring monogamy back, many incels would be shocked and dismayed to realize that their new "American People of Wal-Mart 2018" exact female ranking match is now twice their weight.

Fucking fat people.

ugly women want chad too, fuck right off

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I know what you mean, but you could always just leave. why not?

Very good point, I've had this thought before, but you've articulated it much better than I could have in your post and replies. I could probably get an obese/ugly looksmatch (I am skelly) but I don't want one, so that makes me voluntary. All thin/non-obese women have more attractive and less socially retarded options than me.

My fucking man, I'm mostly in the same predicament even though I'm working to improve myself. My biggest fear is doing everything people say to do for a man to make himself sexually attractive, meaning move out of my parent's house, buy a car, work out, buy nicer clothes, work on my charisma and social skills, etc., and if I still can't get a gf or even laid, I'll probably just kill myself.

I'm living independently and I'm anything but a "loser", but I'm still a kissless virgin in my mid 20s. I know it's my own fault and my social anxiety, I feel like shit. The only thing keeping me going is that I will eventually meet that one special girl who will be just as happy to meet me as I'm happy to meet her. I'm not even picky when it comes to looks, so I'm sure I will find at least one chubby nerd girl and make her happy.

>The premise of looksmatch is flawed because it implies that's all that matters, but you need both people to have acceptable personalities.

So if you factor in the personality, robots become even more unattractive. The women they could potentially attract will be closer to the bottom of the barrel in looks, than if it were only based only on looks. This is because having a reclusive or antisocial personality has a more negative effect on attractiveness for men.

To be honest I would be happy with an ugly girl who likes anime, like the ones who go to cons with their only friend and are too ashamed to cosplay. But those kind of girls either already have bfs or are hard to approach.
I think my autism is so strong it even shut downs ugly girls. Feels bad man.

your wealth will only be appreciated by women who want to settle down and have kids.There is also a big chance your kid isn't even yours so make sure to do a paternal test as quick as possible.Your looks and demeanour(you need to prove you are better then any male in the room and even then there is a big chance your wife,girlfriend will cheat on you,just look at napoleon or any ugly millionaire) is your only chance to get women besides wealth and considering those two are often tied by genetics,then you are unwillingly walking into a abyss of unfulfillment and torture.

If what you seek is females and you were born ugly then i have nothing more to say then good luck.

Ugly and below average women want Chad too. They always try to date up. It's ridiculous how many Hee-Haw-McGraw's on Tinder will ghost a normal person.