Are there any genuine leftists on Jow Forums...

See thats what OP is talking about. You hate leftism because of the memes. Leftism was never about being a pansexual genderfluid black woman, that's just American liberals.

Unironically though being a faggot was taboo on Jow Forums until recently, after Jow Forums and natsoc became commonplace, kek

Deep breaths, calm down turboautist. He didn't even use the word liberal in his post.

>i-its Jow Forums's fault no one likes us
Lefties are insufferable in every capacity. Maybe when you stop trying to shove you're garbage opinions on everyone it'll stop being "taboo"

Deng tankie ? Juche tankie ?

i fucking HATE how those libtards fags took over the Anarchist movements
fucking mongoloid niggers can't survive a day without their state wiping their asses
-t butthurt anarchist

I know. Hence deleted it. I just read any comparison between liberals and communists/anarchists no matter how innocent it is and I just switch off and assume whoever posted that's Der Boomermensch or a Jow Forumsflake.

>Jow Forums and natsoc became commonplace
Jow Forums and natsoc aren't commonplace outside Jow Forums. The thing is, a lot of people myself included enjoy larping as nazis to get a rise out of the soft-hearted faggots.

Shut up, you interminably cute faggot

Marxist-Leninist. Un-ironically thinks Khrushchev's reforms fucked The USSR in the long run even if he wasn't anywhere near as bad as the people who replaced him in the decades to come. Also a Maoist.

>the mainstream is anti-capitalist

Liberals are not left-wing.

Debate me, ancrap.

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I have been social democrat for most of my adult life and a party member of the Finnish social democratic party.

>assumes I'm ancap
No faggot, I just think people like you have shitty personalities.
>that image
You should really bother to read about some commie regimes and see how well it worked for those people.

I've read too much leftypol I don't think MLM is even tankie anymore and the DSA / Labour are neolibs

Anybody else get pissed at Kyle "Scandinavia Is Socialist" Kulinski for knowingly watering down the democratic socialist label? He even says he's *not* a socialist and believes in capitalism, for fuck sake!

LOL You start out as a curious succdem and end as an ushanka-wearing Stalinist screaming bout how Holodomor couldn't have happened.

>And it didn't happen

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Capitalism is flawed but I'll choose it over a system with a disregard for human rights so great they literally build walls to keep people from getting out.

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There would be a lot fewer people living on 2 bucks a day if they reproduced less.

Also communism would greatly lower the American standard of living. They won't stop past the American 1 percent, they will go for the global 1 percent.

>Is that why right-wingers here say retarded shit

Yeah pretty much. They've decided to polarize in the exact opposite direction, going from hard left-wing authoritarian, to hard right-wing authoritarian. It doesn't help they pretty much just circle jerk all day with each other with "haha niggers amirite"

>disregard for human rights

More people are incarcerated right now in The United States than were in gulags during Stalin's rule.

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What are you implying? That the majority of news outlets and social media do not heavily lean to progressive views?

Yet our prisoners eat better and live better lives than most communist citizens.
funny

Yeah I suppose you are right.

>liberals are anti-capitalists

Progressive views are not leftism, that's just american liberals.

I've been a social democrat and a union member for my adult life. There used to be much of us, but they are all gone.

Right now, I'll just wait for the reintroduction of the 12 hours day.

>capitalists who are ok with gays and minorities are leftists
only in america perhaps

>commit a crime
>go to prison and serve a sentence while being fed and clothed
vs
>speak your opinion
>get sent to siberia to starve and freeze to death
yeah communism really is the one true way

Stalin did nothing wrong. The kulaks deserved it all.

Is that per capita? I wasn't talking about prisons either but go ahead and try to change the subject to draw attention from the fact that if you don't like America you can leave but citizens in the USSR and its satellite states didn't have that right.

They are in the US. Unfortunately the term "liberal" means two different things depending on where you are

>americans
>left-wing
Imperialist pigs can't be left-wing, sorry.

>2018
>being commie filth

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>Imperialist pigs
Oh look, it's the 19 year old who's entire political knowledge comes from memes.

ah yes, that's why most people alive today that experienced live in the USSR want communism back, because it was worse than being in an american prison

Right here leftbro

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There'd be a lot less people living on less than $2 a day *and* having as many kids as they want if the capitalist International Monetary Fund and World Bank wouldn't have the whole world shackled in debt slavery thanks to charging interest on all bank notes printed and only accepting developing nations' natural resources as payment.

Why don't I see you "just have less kids" Porky apologists tryna tackle the arguments put forward in Confessions Of An Economic Hitman?

>it's a "yeah, we implanted a bunch of dictatorships all over the world but please america is still good don't hate us" american

>most people
[citation needed]

Try speaking to some old people here in the Czech Republic about communism. I want them to have a good laugh at your naivete.

I'm all for progressive taxes, universal health care, public infrastructure and pro-labour legislation, but I despise identity politics and the promotion of subversive behavior in general.

>that's why most people alive today that experienced live in the USSR want communism back
They don't you dumb fuck. I've spent this entire summer semester listening to a Czech professor talk about how shit his home country and east Germany were under the communist government.

And the Soviet Union didn't implant its dictatorship around the world? They lost the vote in many places and came in with tanks and took it over anyway. You're completely fucked in the head if you think every citizen welcomed the USSR with open arms.

Nah, the lefties that flock to your flag have given me a newfound respect for actual anarchists who backup their ideas without identity politics

I don't support the USSR.

Most people alive today who lived under right-wing dictatorships in Latin America have nostalgia for such regimes too. The point is that the periphery of the Western world, Latin America and Eastern Europe, was better off before East Asian industry took off in the 1970s and completely killed the viability of countries like Brazil, Bulgaria, Argentina, Ukraine, Peru or Russia having a competitive industry.

None can compete with the gook in making cheap shit.

How do you reach that weird conclusion?

The difference is we can talk shit about our government and say those things were terrible without getting disappeared by the secret police at night

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Yeah, the party is in deep decline with the aging demographics, lower union membership,apathy of the electorate and lower membership numbers. There are only about 5,000 social democratic youth league members anymore the political machine is dying at consistently faster phase. I do however see some hope in Corbyn and Sanders and their opposition to coalition along prefrense to left-wing populism.

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Are you a socialist? If yes, thinking that it'll work this time around is pretty foolish. There will always be money and power driven elites on top.

Wikipedia Cointelpro or forced rendidtion.

[citation needed]
Maybe some russians do but moreso because of russian domination than for economic reasons.

Anarchist. Read "Conquest of Bread" if you're interested.

No, they ain't. Source for the gulags Vs. prison-industrial complex claim by the way:

businessinsider.com/how-many-americans-in-jail-2012-3?IR=T

"MUH FREEDUMZ!"

conservatism is popular on Jow Forums because it's inherently mean-spirited and parochial which appeals to edgy teenagers and college aged losers with undeveloped empathetic traits and low-level sociopathy

Any country with a floating currency can compete, as if you're uncompetitive then the market will devalue your currency until you're competitive again.

Devaluation by the market may sound bad, but really it's better than any alternative. If the government tries to keep the currency value too high, it destroys the economy and the currency collapses catastrophically. That was the main factor in the collapse of the USSR, and the cause of most of the world's hyperinflation episodes (the Confederate States of America being the main exception).

>Most people alive today who lived under right-wing dictatorships in Latin America have nostalgia for such regimes too.
Only old people and impressionable teens. Educated people know how bad things were during those times. People were captured by the government and tortured everyday. Women raped by soldiers in front of their children as a torture technique. It wasn't a time to have nostalgia for if you have atleast 1/3rd of a brain.

You were talking bout "lack of freedom" or whatever buzzwords burgers love to throw around instead of reading and thinking. I fired back with the fact that Burgerland which even thinks universal healthcare leads to Stalinism has the highest incarceration rate in the world.

Higher than Soviet Russia, higher than The People's Republic Of China, higher than V E N E Z U E L A, higher than any country on Earth at this very second no matter how free you think Americans are or how oppressed you think the rest of the world is.

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>inherently mean-spirited
how so?
the right just needs to state an opinion or exist for the left/establishment to become bullies.

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Well, uh, achkshually, I've founded my own ideology based on Marxist theory, but I've applied it to the current sexual society. You see, women are a lot like the means of production. Our current culture worships the few Chads (bourgeoisie) who are able to find a sexual partner (control the means of production), and leaves the rest of society in the dust, saying it's their own fault they can't get women (money/capital). Brads (the petit-bourgeoisie) and normies (the labour aristocracy) are not able to obtain the same societal status as Chads, but conform to societal norms as to stray from the path would be dangerous (similar to how communists revealing themselves in a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie would be similarly dangerous). Finally, at the bottom of the ladder are the Betabux and the incels (proletariat), who, in this society, will never be able to find true love and become victims of the current situation.

It's still a work in progress, but I think the theory has underlying truths to it that show how Marxist economics can easily be translated into the current society after the sexual revolution (similar to how Marx's theories are applied to society following the liberal revolutions). Do you robots have any thoughts?

lmaoing @ the Jow Forumsfags who think being a tankie is the only brand of communism
anarcho-communist over here with some anarcho-syndicalist leanings
(left unity with yall tankies out there but like please understand that an interim government is not a good way to achieve communism)

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>Only old people and impressionable teens.

Well, guess what is the main demographic for communist nostalgia in Eastern Europe?

My point is that both phenomenoms, nostalgia for right-wing and left-wing dictatorships in the periphery of the Western world, are similar, rooted in the same causes, and not a vindication of the superiority of communism (or right-wing bureaucratic authoritarianism).

Not an ancap, but whatever
1. Things like sickness, lack of water and malnusishment are only "easy" to prevent in that we could easily save any one of those people, but when there are hundreds of millions of people dying from them it would take massive amounts of resources and human capital to save them. We would need to come up with millions of vaccines, tens of thousands of doctors to administer them as well as the means to transport them as well as the means to find and gather up all the sick people. We need incentives to bring all the doctors to shit hole countries (who would go to Africa when they could just work in america) and then we would have to rinse and repeat all this shit again with food and water. If you think this is "easy" you're a retard. Communism isn't a cheat code that gives you infinite money and labor.
2: some of the most warlike countries in recent years (china, north korea, formerly the USSR) have been anti capitalist. Getting rid of money doesn't end the desire for more controll over a region, since even without money, a nation still needs resources to survives.
3. Some of the worst famines in recent years were caused by failures of planned economies. Also see point 1 to see why it's difficult to end hunger even if we have surplus food
4: the amount of people living in absolute poverty is a mere fraction of what it was 100 years ago (10% of the world as opposed to 50%) of the world, and this trend shows no signs of stopping. Additionally, the poor today live in conditions far better then the poor 100 or even 50 years ago did, because contrary to popular belief, just because the rich are getting richer doesn't mean that the poor are getting poorer, indeed everyone is richer today them in past decades, even people in impoverished counties. This has happened even though capitalism has been the global zeitgeist

I think I respect tankies more than you. At least they have responsability of taking upon themselves the task of building a society and government after a successful revolution, whatever the cost.

"Anarcho-communists", on the other hand, cling upon failed revolutions as the real examples of "True Communism", as if getting a bullet in the head by a Freikorps commander was more revolutionary than actualling organizing a worker's army competently enough to win a civil war.

oh wonderful, that horseshit that gets posted everywhere

Reminder that you can't be Christian and not a communist

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And it's still hundreds of times more convincing than any argument any leftist has ever made

a lot of tankie revolutions had a good start but you have to see where they went. authoritarian regimes with a society that meets no definition of communism, nor seems like it would even reach it, don't seem like a good example.
anarcho-communist and anarcho-syndicalist revolutions worked to an extent - the biggest one, and the one that you're probably referring to, the spanish one, could have succeeded if not for the fascist front (which to my knowledge was supported at least indirectly by the soviet union

Jow Forums started out libertarian left, Jow Forums will die libertarian left. The whole Jow Forums thing is just a phase. Fundamentally Jow Forums users hate rules and want freeshit.

The left have just become massive lolcows who want to censor everybody so they're a bit hated right now.

I support liberal social programs, most conservatives are too focused on themselves and don't understand they benefit in the long term from a more healthy and stable society - but hey! They get $10 more each paycheck from destroying systems they themselves benefit from or will benefit from. It was pretty hilarious seeing conservatives crusade against Obamacare, and then cry when their medical benefits were taken away because they didn't realize Obamacare and the ACA are one and the same. I also find that most people on disability are conservative, I guess the irony escapes them.

Neither side knows how to run the economy, but it doesn't matter since they are both sucking corporate and billionaire dick behind the scenes.

I'm pro gun, citizens should always be armed to protect themselves from political tyranny and criminals (who will always be armed).

Borders should be protected, but the immigration process should be streamlined. As someone with a foreign gf it could take over a decade for her to earn citizenship even though she is college educated and has a masters degree.

Abortion should be encouraged and subsidized, at least for the first one. Too many parents running around who are still children themselves and are raising a doomed generation. Contraceptives available for all at reduced prices or free at clinics including birth control.

First 2 years of postsecondary education paid for, including university or trade school. Fine Universities for money gouging students so that they don't hike prices. Maximum price set for in campus housing so you aren't paying a house mortgage for half of a 10x10 room.

Minimum 25 year sentence for political bribery, including "donations". It's undermining the democratic process and is at it's core, treason.

None of this will happen though, one of the drawbacks of capitalism is that money = power, and we're too far down the rabbit hole.

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Saying the Soviet Union or the People's Republic of China aren't really communist because they don't conform to the standards set by ideologues is like saying Louis XIV wasn't really an absolute monarch because he had to compete with nobles, or saying that he wasn't a representative of the divine rights of kings because since he lost wars, he clearly didn't had divine rights (or because god doesn't exist in the first place).

My point being you can define historical phenomena according to the self-definition of its proponents, but according to the way it actually manifested in history, politics and society. Communism as a historical phenomenum and political movement culminated in what we know as the Eastern bloc, and your failed uprisings in Germany, Ukraine and Catalonia don't merit anything more than a footnote.

how delusional can you be
any mention of anything slightly to the right gets a POOOOOOOOOLLLLLL GO BACK TO POL BACK BACK REDDIT FROG BOOMER POL

every
single
time

youre crazy and schizophrenic

me, but I guess I'm a minority for chan leftists, since I don't hate idpol. I still don't really get the hate for idpol, since it's mostly just misattributed problems with neoliberal society.. like people get idpol much more than most leftist shit, since it's just sorta obvious and natural for them.

I am, but not very vocal about it.

You don't know what communism is.

>Communism isn't a cheat code that gives you infinite money and labor.

this gave it away
there is no money in communism.

communism is quite generally agreed upon as a classless, stateless, moneyless society. no authoritarian left regime has achieved this, nor has it come close to attempting in in truth
if we then take the path of defining something according to the way it actually manifested, then we could describe many regimes as communist, as long as they were vaguely authoritarian

People themselves decide to have kids when they have no way to feed them. The world bank doesn't hold a gun up to their heads and tell them that have kids.

Sure, if you're ignorant of leftist arguments.

That image is one massive strawman

What the hell is that even talking about? It took years to get the dozens of nationalities/ethnicities in the USSR not trying to fuck each other over and establish Greater Tataria/Bashkiria/Georgia/Karachia etc etc, and even that took what was essentially ethnic cleansing.

Also some of the most vicious, violent and successful revolutionaries were the well-educated ones who had no future under the old regime. Stalin was more educated than average although he got kicked out or dropped out iirc, Sverdlov was well educated for the times, Trotsky was even more well educated, Kamenev went to university, even fucking Beria was a great student.

I'm all for dumb pol shit its a funny board a lot of the time but who believes this stuff?

Yep, I'm quite lefty. I describe myself as 'adaptable leftist' as I think getting to tied down in political dogma breeds inaction. If being antifascist furthers the political goal of the left, I'll be anti-facist. If voting neo-liberal instead of a worse option does so, I'll do that. If seizing the means of production does, then that's what I'll do.
Those aims are
>increase the quality of life for as many people as possible from as broad a setting as possible
>resist anything that will decrease quality of life for people, particularly if it's sectarian and targeted towards a certain group. Leftism should be inter-sectional
anything which achieves one or both of these goals is something I'd work towards regardless of if that's considered commie, or centrist, or anarchistic or whatever else. Keeping adaptable is the only way to bring action about, rather than hoping for revolution or debating theory endlessly

No because communist countries had characteristics that put them apart from other authoritarian regimes.

you will never be alone here bro

>I describe myself as 'adaptable leftist' as I think getting to tied down in political dogma breeds inaction.
> If voting neo-liberal instead of a worse option does so, I'll do that. If seizing the means of production does, then that's what I'll do.
Christ

Please read some theory you fucking liberal

aesthetically, possibly. but in practice, they had much to do with other authoritarian regimes. the only difference that comes to mind is an anti-individualist sense but this surely isn't entirely a unique quirk.

Replace money with resources then. Also if I'm so ignorant twords the nature of communism then my argument must be built on a weak foundation and thus easy to defeat. I'm all ears.

i'd prefer to live in an american prison than any soviet life other than those at the top

le ebin bait xD

It's both. They're not mutually exclusive

I am indeed interminable

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nazbol gang, nazbol gang

I've read plenty of marks and engels and I'm no liberal; I think liberals are capitalists and I see them as my ideological enemy just like any capitalist.
That said I'd sooner vote one in than, say, a hard-line conservative. Like I said, anything which leads to an improvement in quality of life for the largest group of people is what I'd do. I think that's a practical way of implementing leftism, rather than sitting in ivory towers as the intelligentsia while the masses see their quality of life decline.
Some countries simply have no chance of going from the state they are in now to some leftist fantasy. By going incrementally, you can shift the overton window and make leftism more appealing.
what would you suggest is wrong with that? What alternative would you suggest for practical leftism?