Would you let a doctor who was a affirmative action recipient operate on you?

I would never let a nigger operate on me. And I am not even white.

desu I would only ever let a white or asian handle my health.

Post the research faggot I wanna see this

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Same with those affirmative action surgeons OP's referencing, but they ain't given the same benefit of the doubt. Instead people sue the Supreme Court and blame them for bot getting into the college they wanted to.

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Let me guess your a Asian

Where's that from source bro we need the source

I cant tell you how much stress these charts gave me back in the day

It does though in your case cuz you legit made the claim that you can be a surgeon just by being black like hospitals hand out scalpels and scrubs to to anybody that asks.

The source is the aamc. I dont know if youd be able to find data this old on their website anymore though

aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/157998/factstablea24.html
This is more recent than that pic.

I don't get it the African American acceptees had similar acceptance rates on each level with whites except for one anomaly Hispanics mainly had peiple with high GPA's applying and a lot of them get in. Seems normal to be honest only smart or above average people get in.

No they had significantly higher acceptance rates for the same score compared to whites.

Attached: mcat.png (934x1308, 307K)

in what way?
What's your race?

Asian male

Literally the worst demographic

>"Where's your source?"
>*Presents no source*

Also, how many of the white med school students come from wealthy, well connected families or have family members who attended the same schools before them? You know, legacy admissions which outnumber affirmative action students at universities in Burgerland.

The source is the aamc holy shit just read the thread. And most of my white classmates still took out loans for the majority of their schooling

Are you a moron?
Read the thread
here is the source: Here is screencap of the source:

The dumb ones never make it through med school and years of hospital slave labour.

Medical school and residency are incredibly easy to pass

why not? he has the qualifications. Even if he got admitted through AA, he still has to graduate.

Sure, but do you want the bottom of the barrel in charge of your health?

>bottom of the barrel
how so?

Do you understand what affirmative action is?
Its a system that allows underqualified people (compared to the other condidates) to enter the program.

Again id rather have a harvard aa surgeon than a touro university non aa surgeon. Its all relative

better than encouraging women to become doctors - even though they'll likely leave the workforce for a significant period of time in order to raise children. I have no problem with female doctors of course, but we shouldn't be encouraging it over males to achieve gender parity artificially, because the cost will be people's lives when there aren't enough doctors available.

I would still be cautious about that, given the tendency that these institutions have to coddle minorities.

Its not something I just pulled out of my ass though. Its a real thing and its more likely that a black person was held to lower standards when obtaining a degree and statistically they are more likely to make a mistake. Bottom line, racist or not Im not sorry.

I get that AA exists, but I don't think they're actively seek out 'underqualified' people. It's more like they are giving precedence to minorities who are still qualified for the program. Yes, this hurts asians/whites, but the total quality of students is still the same.

Having worked under and with, and supervised black doctors, i really cannot tell any difference between them and their white counterparts

you can't make claims like that without any sources

Wrong.
Just look at these charts If they are accepting more blacks at a lower standard than whties then there are applicants with higher qualifications that are being left out and therefore the proficiency base-line is now lower than what it would otherwise be.

It would be one thing if there was a tie and the deciding criteria was that the person is a minority. but that's not the case. They pick people who are less qualified than rejected candidates just because of the color of their skin.

Wait, you don't understand how a person who couldn't measure up to the real acceptance standards is more likely to be incompetent?

Thatd be true if testing skills were reflective of surgery skills which it may or may not be

testing skills are reflective of knowledge.
And what you are saying makes no sense.
You are basicaly saying that you wanna gamble on the possibility that the AA surgeon might have superior skills based on literally no evidence, instead of relying on actual data to draw your conclusions.

We are talking specifically about surgeons correct? I dont give a shit if my surgeon doesnt understand basic chemistry or physics. His knowledge on those subjects (aka what they test on the mcat) is meaningless. He would have gone through the exact same surgical training as dr asian or dr white.

I never said dr aa has superior skills, i just said i dont think his poor mcat necessarily makes him a shittier operator.

And again dr aa from johns hopkins is probably leagues smarter than dr asian from penn state university

You are the one making the claim that slightly lower test scores equate to a significant difference in surgical ability, so it's on you to prove it. data can be shown to indicate anything if the people doing the interpreting are dumb enough, using data is not inherently an accurate thing unless the person interpreting it is well educated in the subjects at hand.

I only trust asian doctors. I wouldnt even take a white doctor to operate on me.

true, if we go by the racist's logic you'll have to discount white doctors as well since they'll be statistically worse. after all, the data proves it according to their logic.

Fair warning all the big fuckups ive seen have been done by asian doctors

Kek

>We are talking specifically about surgeons correct? I dont give a shit if my surgeon doesnt understand basic chemistry or physics. His knowledge on those subjects (aka what they test on the mcat) is meaningless. He would have gone through the exact same surgical training as dr asian or dr white.
Wrong.
If he excelled at those things chances are he is more likely to excell as a surgeon

>I never said dr aa has superior skills, i just said i dont think his poor mcat necessarily makes him a shittier operator.
His poor scores, especially if he depended on AA to get into the program says he is not likely to excell.

>You are the one making the claim that slightly lower test scores equate to a significant difference in surgical ability, so it's on you to prove it. data can be shown to indicate anything if the people doing the interpreting are dumb enough, using data is not inherently an accurate thing unless the person interpreting it is well educated in the subjects at hand.

Its not slightly lower, it's significantly lower. Just look for youself The data is pretty straight foward. Person A had higher marks than person B. Despite that person A was rejected and person B was accepted just because of their race.
In other words, person B doesn't need to be as competent as person A to be accepted into the program.

>In other words, person B doesn't need to be as competent as person A to be accepted into the program.
Conclusion, person's A race is more competent in general than person B's race.

I'm not arguing in favor of AA, I disagree with it. What I'm saying is that people who got there because of AA are still going to be qualified to do their jobs well, and you are extremely unlikely to have a problem just because your doctor got into their program via AA.

>What I'm saying is that people who got there because of AA are still going to be qualified to do their jobs well
How do you know that?
If anything it says you are more likely to get an incompetent professional if he got his degree through AA.

Do you think people who excel at math or biology would be good cooks or salesmen too or something?

I can tell you i did very well on the mcat but would not last 1 month as a surgeon

And to be fair those arent "poor" scores either, they just arent excellent scores.

Ill tell you how. Because being a doctor isnt really that hard and doesnt actually require a person to be in the top 10% of their college class, its just thats theres so much competition that it ends up being the case.

Actual doctor work is pretty easy.

Furthermore, most of the knowledge theyneed to be doctors are NOT learned on college anyways. Dr aa will go through the same medical training and surgical residency training that dr asian goes through. And no, they dont "coddle" blacks IN residency.

I'm pretty sure female med students now outnumber male med students.

Lmao@ all the typos. Phoneposting

>Do you think people who excel at math or biology would be good cooks or salesmen too or something?
That tells me they are better at learning and understanding things.
Cook? Maybe. Look up Nathan Myrhvold.
Salesman?? Completely different realm, you might as well as me if he would be a good football player.

The point is that according the official criteria to weed out candidates, the AA ones are an inferior stock.
If you wanna go on a hunch and assume they are idiot-savants as surgeons feel free to stake your life on that.
I just don't understand why would you.

>Actual doctor work is pretty easy.
Sure, but i would still want a smart one to take care of me.should i need one.

so the argument ITT is not to trust black doctors because of affirmative action?
Anyone unqualified who got in due to affirmative action see: are likely to drop out.
source: aamc.org/download/102346/data/aibvol7no2.pdf

I tell you thay being a good surgeon has literally nothing to do with college math

Im not saying i would preferentially go to dr aa as you keep insisting

Yeah go pick a smart doctor to be your oncologist. But for procedural based practices id pick the guy with more experience whatever race he may be. I dont give a fuck if my interventional radiologist doesnt know

Doesnt know what a cell is or doesnt know the molecular compsure of bicarb. I only care that he can perform a TIPS without causing a liver lac or do a vertebral bx without hitting a spinal artery.

Sorry last post sent too early

All of my doctors have been asian so far, specifically korean. I only trust korean doctors as they have the lowest botch rate and highest success rate compared to all the other races of doctors.

White male doctors have the highest murder rate though even the most prolific ones were white and they have a higher chance of getting away with your murder

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The op said a recepient of affirmative action he never said all black people you racist!

>I only trust korean doctors as they have the lowest botch rate
Now let me tell you about plastic surgery in Korea

>operate
So he got in from AA
He still needs to complete his residency
He still needs to get on a surgical training program
He has to finish that which takes another +4 years, normally with at least 1 year in another country

Only then will he be operating and not just opening/closing.
Also which sub specialty of surgery are we even talking about?

t. Guy who works in a hospital

In reality you can't tell if the doctor was an AA beneficiary, so you treat race as a heuristic. In the case of the Korean/Chinese/Japanese/white doctors, they will 100% not be an AA beneficiary. On the other hand, the black/hispanic doctors have a significant chance of being one. In many cases, I would recommend that individuals be judged as individuals, but not when it's a matter of life and death.
Also, graduation rates are a garbage measure of quality of institutions or quality of students. They're not internally or externally valid because they've become both targets and measures.

So you would trust chang from university of nevada over tyrone from mgh?

Do Americans get day 1 residents to operate?

Im not sure, im internal medicine. I think they do start operating soon after though although its not a lot of or time

More and more foreigners have been going to Korea to get plastic surgery than in the US.

Harold Whitman was one of a kind killing his patients in amazing manners it's a work of art lad

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The difference between AA and alma mater as factors in choosing doctors is that the latter is much easier to find out. Ie, in reality, the comparison is going to involve doctors without such a large disparity in quality of institutions. My answer were I to find myself making your hypothetical situation: neither.

>I think they do start operating soon after though although its not a lot of or time
Really because in Australia/rest of the World it takes +4 years. Residents open/close and do the basic parts while being supervised by a consultant.

The whole idea of some poor American somehow going straight onto the table with a 1 day resident talking ebonics is hilarious. Or maybe it's just Jow Forums's lack of knowledge at how the World works.
>Smacks lips
>So yous be getting an Ivor Lewis, know what I'm asyng? lights out white boi
and the entire team operating room team is around this nig is clapping, Obama probably calls through congratulating him while the patient is still being put under

When i said operating i meant assisting obviously. A transitional intern told me he closed a mastectomy unsuprervised since the attending just left.

Speaking of ivor lewis ive been babysitting a patient on my service for weeks because gen surg cant make up their fucking mind on when they want to take him to the or.

One of our GI attendings does actually talk like that though

>Harold Shipmanwas Britain's most prolific serial killer. According to the public inquiry into his crimes, the former family doctor killed at least 250 of his patients over 23 years. He was found dead in his cell at Wakefield prison on January 13 2004, having hanged himself. The 57-year-old was serving 15 life sentences.
Holy shit that bastard is amazing fucking hell imagine being him goddamn

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>When i said operating i meant assisting obviously
Right, however OP and Jow Forums like to make it out that this fresh negro is doing the same thing that consultants do.
I'm a racial realist if there is an actual number that somehow shows the mortality of patients under the care of white/blacks/spics/indians/asians I'd be interested however all we get is that there is AA for negro's which I thought was already known by everyone anyway

Are you a surgeon

How the fuck do you have time to do anything

im sure every nigger in medicine gets to a point where a year or two after school (which they probably struggled with) they get into a mindset where they think, "this just where I be" or something like that, thus resulting in inadequate treatment of patients

I work in a hospital in a surgical department and have a lot of resident/reg friends and answer to a consultant.
There are a few black(African/or European African) juniors who all seem ok, there's one black consultant (who does medicine) and I believe he's just as capable as any other.
Well at that stage they should still be under supervision and doing exams to get into a specialty so if they are shit they'll be known as being shit.

Are there any Americans that can give light on their training programs?

You sound like the old white men who think gays should be hanged

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Also how is it that American hospitals which are probably ran by Jews would allow someone who is a threat to their profits work for them?
Or do the Jew lawyers beat the Jew lawyers of the dead white guy??

But if that's the case why not just skip medschool and go straight to surgery??
The point is that you seem to think that cutting corners is ok, betting on the idea that the guy might be surgery smart.
You can make the argument that he is gonna go through all the training required but you are wasting resources on someone less qualified when there are better options available.

And not to mention that you are lowering the base-line.
They have the highest standards when sending doctors to the international space station, dont you think there is a reason for that?

Because medical school is where you start learning about doctor stuff. You clearly dont have any idea what medical education is like.

Jesus as ive said a billion times im not "betting" on the black guy being smart, im saying his mcat of 27 and his gpa of 3.50 dont mean hes necessarily going to be a shit doctor.

I supervise residents and medical students at a huge university hospital and have not noticed a difference in the "doctor skills" of black vs white residents.

Affirmative action determines if you get into school, not if you graduate.

That being said I always take an Asian doctor if I have the choice.

What about Indian or those foreign doctors from Africa?

>Opinion column
>No source

Cool story bro.

Legacy admissions + Affirmative action actually make things harder for whites who DON'T get legacy admissions, because the legacy admissions are taking spots away from whites, rather than spots away from the entire student body. So white people who grew up in trailer parks who grew up hungry because their parents spent their welfare payments on meth, try the best they can, but still struggle to do as well as somebody who had it easier, apply to university and then they're rejected because they benefited from white privilege since some millionaires crotchspawn got a legacy admission which proves white privilege.

The people in NYT opinion columns don't care about what individuals actually deserve to be in school. They just care that every racial group ends up with equal admissions. In a non-racist society, schools would be flooded with Asians.

I'm using Asian in the British sense here because I'm lazy. India is in Asia. Wh*te doctors aren't actually the cream of the crop.

Ok, but why allow in less qualified people?
It's likely you are not gonna notice any difference if they are doing grunt work, but how can you trust that a guy who is not smart enough to get in without assitance to keep up with new developments in medicine?
Also you have one less doctor who could eventually go into research and develop a new treatment or medicine because he is not smart enough to be a full stack doctor.
Don't you think the resources employed on training a doctor should go to the more qualified candidates?

>but you are wasting resources on someone less qualified when there are better options available.
No one has provided any statistics on how AA's perform post medschool.
There's been no information on the breakdown on even if they become surgeons or physicians that's been provided.

Answer me, do you think they just pick Tyrone out of medschool put him into a senior consultant role with those responsibilities or do they have to do the same training as everyone else?

There are incompetents in every field.
Affirmative action is just making sure you have more of those.

I have let a black man operate on me if that's what you're asking. He had lots of experience and was a doctor at a prestigious hospital. His race didn't really factor in as a decision at all for me.

Racism past a point is just idiocy. Being too racist is just as stupid as not being racist.

>Answer me, do you think they just pick Tyrone out of medschool put him into a senior consultant role with those responsibilities or do they have to do the same training as everyone else?
see I'm sure the guy might be able to get the job done. But you are not accounting for the guy who could do that job twice better but had his application denied due to AA.

I think you can be a race realist and not be racist. You can understand that there are genetically heritable differences among racial populations for various things. You can also understand that this means that there are still plenty of individual variance though and it's silly to judge someone on racial averages when you have other information to go off of. A hillbilly living in a shack who dropped out of school when he was 13 is not likely to be smarter than a man who graduated summa cum laude from Harvard medical school and has thousands of successful surgeries under his belt just because the hillbilly is white and the surgeon is black and whites have a higher IQ on average.

Let me refer you to my post I made an hour ago
You seem to assume that an AA will be worse by the time they are a consultant.
You've yet to show any actual evidence of this.
Inadequate use of resources is not evidence of AA's being more like to cause complications.
There's been no posts showing if AA's +/- the performance of non-AA's in different fields.

Ok, but since we are dealing with human lives don't you think it would be better to air on the side of caution and make doctors out of the best candidates instead of making it a charity case?

>There's been no posts showing if AA's +/- the performance of non-AA's in different fields.
There's been a post showing that they are less capable on academics

No, not because of race, but because he was hired because muh duhversity and not because he was most qualified.

Right, the MCAT is useless, begs the question why we use it at all.