Are you vegan?

People see it as sjw bs and refuse to read up on it because of that. I went vegan for reasons related to biology and health, the rest is a bonus.

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and a lot of things were socially unacceptable in the past but normalized or celebrated now. It's almost like morality is a fashion!?

Rule of the jungle. The weak must fear the strong.

There is no reason to be moral to creatures that cannot produce value for you voluntarily. The reason morality evolved at all is because exhibiting pro-social behavior to others increases yield because of cooperation. We cannot cooperate with meat animals so there is no reason to exhibit pro-social behavior to them. Following your logic, it might as well be immoral to kill insects.

1. It's expensive. I'm 110% sure that besides your fucking grass you still need supplements.
2. I burn around 3k calories per day (fast metabolism and manual labor). If you can survive working 10h/day eating only fucking grass and seeds, then i'm Mary Poppins
3. The human teeth and the history of mankind prove us that we're omnivores
>but muh morality
Morality doesn't feed me and neither my family.

Whats stopping you from necking yourself user? If you continue living you only add to societies carbon footprint, and contribute to the slow death of the planet. Try as you might there is no way for you to exist without being a burden to the earth. Its better for you to die and be reclaimed by the dirt so that the planet and its ecosystems may survive. Its the only true morally right choice user

I have the power and will to eat meat. It is therefore right that I do so.

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If animals didn't want to be eaten why are they made of food?
Checkmate athiests

No. Fuck vegans.
Veganism is the side-effect if people with too much money and not enough sense.
Meat is high-density protein slammed full of micronutrients. It is very cheap and very easy to turn meat into very shelf-stable food. This makes it great for the poor.
Further, all of the brain-dead
>babbies first muh ethics
arguments cannot explain why vegans do NOT eat eggs
>dirt cheap high quality protein
or dairy
>see above
Nothing about Vegans is logical

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Reminder that 'health vegans' deserve to be lined up against the wall alongside cheesebreathers and bloodmouths.

You call vegans illogical, then make an embarassingly illogical argument yourself by saying that animal products are "very cheap and very easy to turn into very shelf-stable food.", when that very line of reasoning is actually what makes plant-based foods far superior. Rememeber not to confuse economic principles with real-world resource consumption in future if you don't want to out yourself as a brainlet.

fuck off vegan fag go back to your lgbt board

morals are a spook, kys normalfag

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No matter how you want to dress it up, we are still animals, I'm not a vegan because I enjoy eating meat, I'm an omnivore so I'll eat like one.

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Yeah, I'm psyched to eat 3rd rate alfalfa and shitty corn that we aren't even allowed to put on store shelves because they don't meet standards.

Imagine being elitist about motivation. I still care about the rest, it's just that morals weren't the main thing that made me switch.

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No. Because logic is a spook and I don't really care about muh morals. I do what I want. Rape is justifiable in most situations anyhow

>no argument, just some random bs
It's okay. I'm not here to save the world, just to laugh at morons like you while it burns.

we've been eating animals for thousands of years and we'll keep doing it. shut the fuck up.

one of my favorite pastimes is eating burgers while watching vegan protest videos :D

>hurrr durrr ecmuhnomic principuls r differnt than reeeeeesource consumpshun durrrr
Boy! All those third world farmers with their chickens, goats, and pigs sure are stupid compared to you, huh?
Look, you half-aborted mongoloid, while it is obvious the closest you have been to a farm is Whole Foods, let me clue you in.
Chickens eat waste or forage; hogs eat waste or forage; goats eat waste or forage; cattle graze. Efficient, cost-effective, *resource efficient* farming turns marginal land and waste into meat.
The high cost of filet at your urban Whole Foods is because of logistics costs.
The vast majority of the poor are RURAL and the majority of the working class is rural adjacent so for 95%+ of humanity meat is cheap for the nutritional density.
>not that you can grasp the math of cost per gram v. Nutrition per gram
THAT is why subsistence level farmers have goats and chickens.
Go spend 8 euros on coffee while telling farmers they do not get the economics of food, you dumb fuck

Honestly, it's fucking stupid to care about most animals. Most of they are too stupid to even realize that they're entire purpose is to die anyway. If anything, humans are helping them by insuring their species doesn't go extinct in exchange for dying.

Vegans often bitch about "we could eat cattle feed" without knowing what it actually is.
I'll be roasting some duck on that fire. Mmmm good stuff.

Iktf
>vegan- savetheanimals-open borders demo chokeful of skinny SoJu cunts
>step right though them and have some Burgerking

People give other arguments for eating animals but honestly, if all animal products tasted absolutely fucking awful to the modern man's palate then very few people would eat it over vegan alternatives even if the nutritional value were the same.

I'm an anti-natalist and I would make the same argument for most reproduction too. If you could Ludovico people on meat and reproductive sex you'd probably make the world as it should be.

See
The go-to farm animals for meat eat stuff humans CANT
>duurrrrr cattle eat plants, we could eat the plants instead huurrrrr
Eat 5 kilos of meadow grass and get back to me, moron

>make the world as it should be
Free of fools & idiots like you?
Sounds great.

Corn fed animals are shit compared to ones with better diets.
Too much fat and not enough lean meat. I'll go for grass fed cows every time.

because i need the proteins to grow up and dont die man

and i like the meat

Agreed. Most corn-fed are such because there is so much surplus corn that it is easier to feed the cattle that rather than bale hay.
That really slaps the
>scarce resources
myth around

Nothing I said was wrong though. It's inhumane to have children and to eat animals but we do it anyways because it feels good.

>but muh species
People say this because they think they're prolonging something but they're not, having kids doesn't give you immortality, all it does is introduce more instances of mortality and more instances of suffering. It's a cycle of pain and death that should end.
>but muh vitamins
You can supplement the vitamins you would need from animals.
>but muh proteins
There's plenty of non-animal based protein.

All it REALLY boils down to is a good feeling, on both sides, reproduction and eating meat. If there were no good feeling and no social pressures we would be anti-natalist and vegan.

>this brainlet thinks morality includes letting your species die
glad you're not reproducing

Yes i am.
Currently planing on boicot all the meat freazing box on the market
Fuck spineless "only for the health" vegans

Species is a spook, idiot. I explained why and you have yet to provide an argument and you never will because you will never be able to. Just smugly reply in single sentences so you can keep yourself in your tiny bubble filled entirely with your misguided cognitive biases.

bet you let yourself get picked on because it's immoral to fight back, retard

>inhumane to eat animals
Foolish. Animals are not moral actors. While torturing them for fun reflects human mental illness eating them cannot be
>inhumane
.
>having kids is eeeeeeeeevil
Is about the stupidest idea of all time.
So you are a foolish dolt

*unsheathes katana*
say that again

kyaaaa~ please no, I'm sorry!!

>you can supplement
Translation
>I am lousy with money, do not know the science showing supplements largely do not work, and forgot poor people exist

>spook
Babbies only philosopher

How bad of a cook do you have to be to need supplements?
Here are some foods you need to know how to cook in order to be vegan.
>tofu and tempeh
>seaweed
>mushrooms
>mussels

>You can't justify eating meat with "It's yummy".
>"Sure I eat diary product and admit cruelty is involved in getting them, but they just taste too yummy."

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Women own their bodies but animals own nothing. Food animals are bred and fed and sheltered from predators and the elements for the purpose of consumption. Women are responsible for their own wellbeing, cows are not.

i've been struggling with this a lot lately, no joke, but honestly i really enjoy meat and i doubt any animals would be saved if i abstained from eating meat, one person doesn't make a huge difference. it does weigh on me though. i really wish there was a way to enjoy the taste of meat without having another living being suffer.

Is cultured meat vegan?

our teeth are designed for tearing flesh and eating meat

I don't like to be a hypocrite towards plants. All life is equal to the slaughter in my view, except for humans because they're our own species (but don't hold your breath if we ever get in a famine).

I just don't care, if they have to shred baby chickens for my nuggets so be it

Good, that means you're not a hypocrite like OP.

BITE BACK

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>While torturing them for fun reflects human mental illness eating them cannot be
Eating them when you can choose not to and still be healthy most definitely is immoral, if you have any consistency with common moral ideas at all.
>Is about the stupidest idea of all time.
If it's stupid then it should be extremely easy to argue against, yet here you are. If you look at it from a consequentialist perspective, when you have kids you necessarily introduce something that will suffer and die, it's good if this doesn't happen and not bad if a non-existent person doesn't exist to also experience pleasures. It's therefore preferable for a non-existent being to stay in non-existence than to be conceived.

Having children is the wrong choice and morally worse than the alternative. It's a biological imperative so I never say that it's necessarily(as in, all cases) evil, it's just not the choice we should be making. However, it's worth clarifying that existing people have a whole set of different rules, no one is saying that people should die and it's not helpful to think retroactively(e.g. "it's better if these people were never born").

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Anything which lacks a distinguishable head is vegan.

Eating meat is what's best for both humans and the environment. It's certainly possible to subside on a vegan diet and still be healthy. But all animals including carnivores /graze/ for the nutrients they can't find anywhere else. It doesn't mean they should.

If you were to magically shut down the meat industry tomorrow the bovine species would go extinct and you would need to obliterate twice as much of the environment at least for agriculture to replace the human dietary intake of meat.

There is also no such thing as vegan since, like the sacred Hindu cow which is always slaughtered, no part of the animal goes to waste. They provided industrial solvents, chemicals, and other resources that make modern life possible. If you've ever lived in a house, drove a car, or used a computer you are not vegan.

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>You would need to obliterate twice as much of the environment at least for agriculture to replace the human dietary intake of meat.
This is a big talking point and I've /always/ heard vegans say otherwise, what does the data say?

>The total abscence of pleasure only counts as "not bad".
>Consequentialism as a valid moral system.
>Eating living creatures is bad, but only animals. We don't talk about plants or insects.

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>we don't talk about plants or insects
This desu. Vegans will never be able to refute this without just claiming it's just different for living beings with brains (nor specify at which point the brain is big enough to consider it immoral to kill it).

>common moral ideas
68% of the world is Judeo-Christian of one sort or another: you pro-life?
No?
Then STFU with your obscure Utilitarian professor that makes Ayn Rand look smart
>consequentialism
There is a rather old saying,
>it is better to have lived and lost than never to have lived at all
Poets were blowing consequentialism out of the water ages ago.
Without the existence of people the very concepts of Pleasure and Beauty would not exist.
Your ridiculous outlook is that
>I had a splinter and it huuuuuuuurt, owie
Outweighs the giggles of infancy, the happiness of childhood, the love of adulthood. That being sad once outweighs a life of sunsets, the smell of cookies, and looking at pretty women.
Whenever I talk to an anti-natalist all I find is a loser bad at math who would throw their ridiculous ideas in the trash for a kiss from a pretty girl.
I have seen kids dying of bone cancer smile and laugh with joy.
Meanwhile you mope

>comparing farm animals to people
>giving them as much rights as to people
jesus christ what a fucking travesty of a society

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There is nothing you can grow in the same space it takes to raise a single bovines that comes close to matching its nutritional value. No one will ever dispute this even vegans. But every 'study' I've read counts the square footage trade off of every last inch of the meat industry including packing and industrial solvents but refuses to do the same for grains or vegetables which leads me to believe there's serious number fudging.

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I only eat animals that die of natural causes, how is that immoral

I'm at work right now just salivating about the big, juicy steak I'm about to have for dinner tonight.

Have you tried artificial meat? Hardly any difference in taste.

>>The total abscence of pleasure only counts as "not bad".
Because there's no person to experience the absence of pleasure so it's not bad that it's not there. This argument is intentionally different from the one I gave for why a lack of suffering is good, otherwise they would both be not bad and that's not necessarily the case from a consequentialist perspective.
>Consequentialism as a valid moral system.
It's the proper moral system for making the world a better place.
>>Eating living creatures is bad, but only animals. We don't talk about plants or insects.
Insects are regarded as animals by vegans and it's not that eating plants is good or is not bad, it's that it's the best we have and that the science is either supportive of or inconclusive on the idea that plants don't suffer or don't suffer like we do. If animals were all we had it would be more morally ambiguous on whether we should eat them but it's not.

This
Goat
>penned in yard; forages for grass; eats food and field waste; needs only 8m2 for lush living
>daily milk; monthly fur; little goats; after 3 years meat and hide
>to replace the nutrition of just the milk would need a hectare

Life is too short to give a fuck about any of your arguments

It's just straight up wrong. Grazing animals inevitably ruin the land they graze on. It's a short term profit with long term consequences. Organic and sustainable plant farming just cannot be beaten by any other means of acquiring nutrition.

I am vegan for around 2 years.

Initially it was to be healthier but now it's purely ethical.

>but *human* grazing doesn't ruin the land they live on guys!!!

Agriculture is the oldest human endeavor of all time. We haven't settled on meat eating because we like being mean to animals or meat tastes good. It's because its the most sustainable and productive model for feeding people.

And again, there is no such thing as vegan. Animals are more useful as industrial solvents than they are as meat. If you drive a car or live in a house you aren't vegan. Animal guts power everything you use.

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>insects are regarded as animals by vegans
so if flies are surrounding you and landing on you, are you allowed to swat them? What if they're biting you? That's even worse then killing for food desu.

>plants don't suffer or don't suffer like we do
If only suffering is the issue, you should have no problem with slaughtering that doesn't cause any pain. Would you be okay with knocking them out with some sort of chemical that suppresses pain and then killing them? They're not feeling any pain, should be all good.

>68% of the world is Judeo-Christian of one sort or another: you pro-life?
1.) I'm pro-notcreatinglifeinthefirstplace, which doesn't have anything to do with the argument you're trying to pull me into, besides saying that it shouldn't be an argument in the first place.
2.) That piece was about veganism.
>>it is better to have lived and lost than never to have lived at all
No, the saying is that "it's better to have LOVED than to have never loved at all." What you're saying is made up or a bad paraphrasing of the original saying. It also refers to people that currently exist and is necessarily an argument based in consequentialism, if you don't love you feel bad or you suffer from the absence over ever experiencing love. I don't hold an opinion on this and, again, it doesn't speak about being who haven't existed.
>I have seen kids dying of bone cancer smile and laugh with joy.
Let's all reproduce so we can have children who die of bone cancer because they might smile a few times. This is necessarily what you are saying.

Consequentialism: for when Teleology tells you to get a job!
Deontology & Virtue Ethics =
>universities, hospitals, the concept of natural rights and the innate dignity of humans
Consequentialism =
>telling your gf getting an abortion is good for the baby

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But we literally have settled on eat eating because it tastes good. Actually read a book before you start posting like you know anything. Meat is a luxury, not a necessity. When people are on hard times, they always eat more legumes and grains than meat, because that's what's most viable for nutrition.

because I couldn't care less for them since im a human and they're animals like u

>grazing animals destroy the land
What a fucking retard
Organic farming rotates grazers onto farmland in rotation to IMPROVE plant yields

>civilized people require more than sensory pleasure to justify behaviors
Nah. Ethics is based on cultural norms and fitting the benefits of the top level of society. Few countries are culturally vegans, and none have an upper class that gives a shit about animals, especially given how much profit can be derived from their use. Thus, it does not need more than sensory pleasure to justify this behavior.

i eat meat because its still socially acceptable to do so and i really dont care enough about animals to go through the effort of changing my diet.

Typo, dumbass
I made a typo

Recommend me one piece of literature about the history of agriculture and human dietary intake that directly contradicts what I said.

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if you care so much about them then lump yourself with them

you and your animals can rot together, either way no will really care for you

I just enjoy the taste of meat too much, I suppose.

don't care about shitty and gay animals

I like fish and chips and also hot chocolate

Vegans make me fucking sick. You know plants are alive and can make sense of the immediate world around them right? Let's see how dedicated you are to this moral crusade, if you really care about being ethical to your fellow lifeforms you better stop eating anything made out of organic material.

Fucking organists, mineralism is the most ethical.

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>feels good is only thing keeping us from being anti-natalist and vegan
If it didnt feel good you wouldnt use your brainlet for the shit you just wrote
Gtfo

I was a vegetarian for a while. And I understand and respect such choices. Now I just don't care that much, so I stopped. Maybe I'll start again one day.

Recommend me one piece of literature about the history of agriculture and human dietary intake that directly contradicts what I said.

What do you mean 'we settled on eating meat'? Who is we exactly? Our ancestors? Modern man? How did 'we' 'settle' on eating meat? How did it become part of our agriculture then?

And what about animals as tools of industry?

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>so if flies are surrounding you and landing on you, are you allowed to swat them? What if they're biting you?
Some vegans would say no, I can't really give an opinion on that because it could be the case that it's self-defense to swat them. There are people who sterilize roaches and lure away flies though.

>If only suffering is the issue, you should have no problem with slaughtering that doesn't cause any pain.
I actually said the bit about suffering because it means that it isn't the same as killing a person, not that I'm okay with killing the plants. It's less like it's right to kill the plants and more like plants, vegans and animals are three people on an deserted island, one is starved and in a coma, the other is starved and completely cognizant and the other is a toddler. If the guy in the coma fed the toddler and the cognizant person then it might not be as bad as any of the alternatives. If the cognizant person dies then the fates of the coma guy and the toddler become more uncertain so veganism isn't a suicide-death cult nor is it morally obligated to be to be consistent.

Today i'll eat vegan diet
>PB&J Sandwich
>Monster ultra
>ramen
>Almond milk and blueberry smoothie

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So - no, you are not basing your decisions off what you asked others to use
And you skipped the point; Consequentialism is fucktarded.
>Should I get a job? I might suffer, so no
>Should I ask out the girl flirting with me? If she declines I will suffer, so better to sit
>look at those idiots with wives, homes, and kids, all smiles, why can they not realize how stupid they are to enjoy life?

My argument really doesn't change in regards to your typo.

Pleb probably doesn't even understand all his actions and beliefs are self interested at their root. Spooked af