Give it to me straight Jow Forums

There are still retards that think that as soon as you go over 5 reps you don't gain any strength and you only gain "size", and if you never go over 5 reps you stay the same size but get stronger. When in reality it doesn't really matter, you're going to get bigger and stronger either way.
Almost every nonretarded lifter splits it up into blocks, i.e. if youre a few months out from a powerlifting meet you'll run a high volume, hypertrophy oriented program, rarely training above 75-80% 1RM. Then switching over to a "transition" type block for a few weeks where the intensity rises and volume tapers off, with more heavy singles work. Then a peaking block working with 90-95%+ 1RM into the meet where you go for your PRs

Every "big and aesthetic" person is definitely strong, and every strong person looks jacked (barring the bloatlord powerlifting/olympic classes)

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>every strong person looks jacked
That's wrong actually.
The majority of heavy lifters are all about neuromuscular efficiency. Not mass and looking "good".

look at this clueless fucking retard and laugh

yeah man for sure everyone in the IPF just pulls heavy singles all day for neuromuscular efficiency, yep, that's how you get strong

you're fucking retarded, stop shitting up this board mongoloid faggot

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>people you used to think were big

I swear this dude actually looked like he worked out for more than a month when I first started lifting.

Deadlift build ma...

m.youtube.com/watch?v=GbVyrKjl0zA

You're an idiot lmao

Personally. I noticed more muscle mass after beginning doing as many reps as possible. When I started lifting, I did the standard 5-10 reps, and double the pounds I could lift, but put on almost no mass. After doing as many as possible tho, I put on a lot more muscle immediately.

like what, 5x[as many as possible every time]?

Cringe

Same I wonder if we have body dysmorphia. His abs look okay and his forearms are small

Fuck your faggot ass bitch

It’s literally impossible to look bad if you hit 1/2/3/4 and are lean. Accessory’s are a meme unless you’re on gear.

explain my skinnyfat physique then

There's a twink on Youtube that can Bench over 3 plates. You're full of shit nigga. Strength =/= size.

>being this much of a manlet
He explained it very clearly.
>if you hit 1/2/3/4
>AND ARE LEAN

OK but you can be nowhere near 1/2/3/4 and look good if you just do accessories after the compounds like any semi-intelligent person.

Note: you can get heavier weight much quicker if you supplement the 75% 5-8 reps with a session a week or fortnight of 1-3 95%+ reps

But if you get super strong on singles, you shouldn't have a problem lifting big numbers in the 5-8 rep range. I think in the long run it doesnt matter really what you do, because while singles will get you stronger faster (on the singles), the progress on your 5-8 rep range will be the same, as long as you are working to your limits. So obviously you are going to have to visit the gym more frequently if you are doing singles. And also the higher the weight the more likely the injury.

"Big compounds" are shit for triceps and shoulders and traps and forearms.
Just do some fucking tricep extensions for fuck's sake.
Only some compounds help with getting bigger arms, like pullups/chinups, rows are significantly inferior for arm development.

I looked like shit on a 2 plate ohp, so you're wrong and this meme is shit.

to be fair that guy just like most wlers are literally slaves to the classic lifts and do almost nothing that effectively trains their upper bodies.

They don't train to look good but if they are lean enough they look good simply because they have to have big (not Ronnie Coleman big obviously) muscles. Laws of physics here man. Sure it would be a lot more beneficial for their lifts to have really efficient and smaller muslces, but you can't force that beyond their set genetic potential. And the actually strong guys are all big because you can't have a skelly body with muscle efficiency of Dmitry Klokov. You just have to get big.

>and are lean

Just want to add something to my post:

If progressive overload takes place, you are going to grow. Simple as that. That is all I wanted to say actually.

You mistook “jacked” for “aesthetic”. Powerlifters have big muscles. Not as big as bodybuilders, but certainly bigger than someone that’s been doing either kind of lifting for a couple of years. This proving that as some point in order to get stronger you not only need more neuromuscular efficiency, you also need more mass.

There was a study that tested rep ranges on biceps and quads I believe that showed the difference in size between 5 rep set schemes and 12 rep set schemes was less than 10%, while the strength difference for 1RM was like ~15-20%

the problem with SS or other cookie cutter programs that depend on low reps on compound lifts is not the rep range itself, it's the low ammount of work on most bodyparts, and the fact that most bodyparts aren't really that well trained like forarms and shoulders and arms and traps and lats, you absolutely need to add in exercises to programs like SS in order to be proportional, if I'm not mistaken it's recommended by rippetoe himself to add in chinups/pullups at the very least to the program.

I agree, I run it modified where I do 4 sets per exercise, and run it every other day with no 2 day long rest periods, so 3-4x a week. I also add in a couple of accessories for vanity. But afaik chin ups are actually part of the program now. Also my shoulder are decent and the only shoulder work I do is OHP, I currently am at 165x5. Only real problem areas for SS aesthetics wise are forearms, biceps kind of, rear delts and maybe chest. SS isnt the most efficient at all because of the low volume but it's a good starting point

I would slightly disagree with the problem areas you mentioned, the whole shoulder muscle group is barely trained on something like SS, there is nothing to lose in doing some lateral raises either, it only adds to your aesthetics and and shoulder health, ohp is absolutely not enough to have properly developed shoulders.
Sure if you just wanna be strong and look strong you don't need to do any shoulder specific work, but you have nothing to lose by doing it, it is fast and you can do it at home too with minimal weight.
Biceps are worked a lot on pullups so it's ok, but triceps are barely used on bench press for a lot of people for a variety of reasons, anecdote and studies looking into EMG of the triceps during certain exercises indicate that this is the case, triceps are developed the least during "big compounds", while biceps are used quite a bit more in proportion.
SS also has the big issue of just having a really unproportionate ammount of work done on the front thighs, that is gonna make anyone that runs it into a t rex no matter how hard they avoid it.

All major accessories evebtually get recommended. The only real “problem” with SS is what people do when it stops working. Right up until it stops working it’s incredibly efficient, delivering a lot of gains with shockingly low volume.

Isolations are for people on roids, prove me wrong.

You need to focus on the big compound lifts, but the way you go about it will be different in post-novice training that it was in novice programs. You'll want more volume for each lift in general (including assistance exercises closely related to the lift, particularly for bench press), and for "aesthetics" specifically, you'll probably want to include rows and curls.

Just always use free weights when at all possible.

>Accessory’s are a meme unless you’re on gear.

How much do you lift, sport?

>"Big compounds" are shit for triceps and shoulders and traps and forearms.

You're an idiot. Triceps and shoulders get worked by bench press, bench variations, dips, and all overhead pressing (standing, seated, barbell, dumbbell, whatever), along with traps. Deadlifts (and all other pulls) work your traps plenty, you never need to do a shrug to get big traps if you ACTUALLY FUCKING LIFT. Forearms are worked by anything where you hold onto something and pull it towards you, since it's your forearm muscles what are gripping the object.

Forearms MIGHT "need" extra exercise. If they do, just get some quality grip squeezing trainer things. Otherwise, the only arm isolation your could ever need is curls for biceps.

Chin ups are explicitly in The Program. Considering you'll be doing SS for MAYBE four months, there won't be terrible "imbalances" developed and about the only further modification you could benefit from is adding dips to The Press days, and MAYBE swapping out power cleans for some form of deadlift, even just 3x5 deadlifts at 80% of the 1x5 deadlifts on the other workout.

why curl for biceps when chins do it and are a decent compound

Do both. Curls are extra volume for your biceps, aren't partially dependent on your lats (which could be tired from other stuff), and are easy to load at a different weights for specific amounts of intensity and volume. Heavier guys can only do so many chin ups at one time.

Non-roiders have lateral delt muscles as part of their anatomy.

What the fuck is this autistic graph
you need to isolate your moosles and workout with gym rings and skip rope and do 400m interval sprints in the morning for TRUE PEAK PERFORMANCE
ONLY FAGS DENY THE IMPORTANCE OF CARDIO
ONLY PUSSIES CAN'T SPRINT IN THE AM AND LIFT IN THE PM
OORAH

Do neutral grip also do biceps?

If you want a answer as low effort as your bait pic or your post then: yes.

Yes, genetics do play a role.
Must be hard to be a brainlet.

Based cringe poster

which are covered by OHP

get strong on SL or SS and then switch to PPL

>i-it doesn't count

How long should I do SS? I've been doing one of the SS's in the sticky for a while, increasing weight every time I go to the gym. I'm starting to plateau and often can't finish all of my sets at max. Is there a generally agreed upon time when it's time to switch off from SS to a more advanced routine?

Until you stop progressing on lifts

This is if consistency, diet, and sleep are confirmed to not be the problems

That mustache is working harder than he is.

Yeah, it doesn't count. Because they don't represent the average. ..like that asian who benches 410 weighing in the 150s. Its called being a genetic outlier.

>forearms MIGHT
no, not might, they will.
>triceps and shoulders get worked by bench, dips, overhead, along with traps
I am gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are sorta new at this.
There's a reason why people look like shit coming off SS even if they do it for a year straight.
Because traps are barely trained at all on deadlifts and ohp, because arms are not trained on power cleans or rows and they're only trained significantly on chinups/pullups, it's the only compound exercise that actually effectively targets a chunk of your arms, bench and ohp fucking suck for optimal tricep development, if you want triceps that actually pop from any angle then do your tricep extensions.
Deadlifts fucking SUCK for traps, maybe if you are on roids or doing 50 sets of deadlifts weekly you don't need to do much besides deadlifts, but as a natural you need to in order to actually have traps that show.
Don't fucking tell me now I need to deadlift 700lb before my traps start to grow now lmao.
>quality grip squeezing trainer things
or just do some fucking forearm curls, you know movements that actually train most of the functions of your forearm muscles.
Pullups/chinups are way more useful for arms than bench or ohp, because your biceps are the main mover on those exercises, they get used more than your lats, because your lats are stronger, your biceps are smaller and weaker and thus need to work harder.
Triceps are used way less than your pecs on bench, and on ohp your limiting factor is always your front deltoids.
There's a reason why rippetoe considers tricep extensions one of the big "5", because it is a good assitance exercise that everyone should do.

focus on the main compound lifts and if you feel something is lacking, for example biceps, then add in an accessory to target it (curl variations) and make it bigger.
also a huge proponent to getting big is eating big, (ie: to gain muscle and size).

>and are lean

what are you on about, dude looks fucking scary. Only thing he lacks are perhaps bigger forearms

Yes to what you incomprehensible retard?

What are your lift stats and bodyweight and how long u been lifting?

I've been doing starting strength for more then a year, my lifts are bp 87kg x5, dl 157kg x5, squat 140kg x5, front squat 112 x5, ohp 66kg x5, pullups 14, 5'7" 158lbs. I want to switch to another routine because I am stalling on starting strength and I want to add other exercices, also not happy with my looks from starting strength.

I was looking at phat or phul for equal strength/hypertrophy or a ppl routine, can I still make some weekly strength gains on ppl or what routine would be best if I wanted size and also some slow strength gains? plz respond

>There's a reason why people look like shit coming off SS even if they do it for a year straight.

Because no one should ever do it for a year straight, dumbass. That's not the point of SS, or ANY novice LP. The point is to build the basic proficiency in the core lifts, and fundamental general work capacity, to be able to get some actual use out of intermediate routines.

The rest of your post is a bunch of utter fucking nonsense that shows you have zero understanding of how the human body works, have never read SS The Book (Rip doesn't consider triceps extensions to be one of the "big 5"), are possibly outright illiterate, and definitely can't lift worth a shit.

>not doing compound lifting routines coupled with muscle toning by isolation

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What's a good intermediate routine? I want to get big and acutally look like I lift

What kind of lift stats should someone have before going to an intermediate routine

exodus-strength.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1456

I've heard a lot of people who do this like it. It'll at least get you acclimated to intermediate type training to the extent you'll be able to scheme up your own program. And you can always add curls or otherwise tweak it.

Weighted chins tear up my lats, bis, forearms, and core. Why would I ever need to do a row, farmer carry, or curl again if I deadlift+chin?

It's going to vary between individuals. Someone who starts all skinny but active (e.g. plays pick up basketball) is probably going to make the most gains on SS, provided they gain at least a lbs per week. Someone who's pretty goddamn fat and otherwise sedentary won't want to gain weight, as that will just cause further problems to address down the road, and won't be able to drive progress as hard.

The exact number isn't important. What's important is that you start light, do the lifts at least passably correct, use a goddamn belt for work sets at least once they get slightly difficult, eat a lot of protein, gain weight if you aren't already fat, and IDEALLY have some shoe specifically for squats. That last part isn't necessary, I was squatting in the mid 400s before I got some Powerlifts. If you do all that, you'll be pretty much done once you start to stall (fail weight 2+ times in a row and it's time to change something). If you REALLY want to milk the program, you can deload by 20% and progress up again, but once you stall a second time, you're definitely done.

I would also add dips, or some other press/bench press assistance on standing press workouts, if you're doing SS for a novice program.

>muscle toning
are you a facebook mom or something?

>row, farmer carry
shoulder health

Ok thanks, checking this out

This advice looks quite good and helpful, thanks for this.

I'm 65kg so quite small still, I know I should be eating more and I am trying to, I do eat above maintenance everyday.

Do you have any idea what kind of lift stats I should be at after 5 months on SL at 65kg bodyweight?

Also u mention a belt, should I start using one? My deadlift: 110kg x5 Squat: 75kg x5

Thanks

its relative you fucktard, do you really think the guy would have a bigger chest if he benched 2 plates, but focused on "hypertrophy" training on bench.

>thinking its possible to grow traps through accesories as a natural

any movement where youre bending your arm at the elbow involves the bicep nigga

yes neutral pulls ups are as good as chin ups for biceps, overhand pull ups are worse but still work

Thanks nigga

How do tricep pushdown involve the bicep again bro?

What is the 1/2/3/4 everyone talks about?

you're neglecting the importance of time under tension

1 gf, 2 hobbies, 3 close friends and $4k/month salary. The minimum requirements every normal person should have

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He's the exception, not the rule

1 plate, 2 plates etc
Means the amount you lift
In euros in means 60 kg ohp, 100kg bench, 140kg squat, and 180kg deadlifts. This is because euro plates are 20kg. American plates are 45lbs,so their lifts are slightly heavier

yes SS is all you need here is an excellent illustration supporting this claim

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keep getting stronger, i recommend madcow as an intermediate program. 5lbs a week on the compounds and easy to progress on.

3 pl8 isn't mind blowing senpai

No twink can bench 315 with strict form, powerlifting cheat reps or gear don’t count.

If you're lifting to be athletically fit and look good then just maintain 1/2/3/4 while working on cardio and filling out in spots that would make you personally look better/more symmetrical
and don't forget your face pulls and posterior rotator cuff muscle exercises motherfucker

>it doesnt disprove me at all, it just doesnt count because it doesnt fit my argument

Kys

he lays on the bench with a flat back and pauses every rep, nice cope lmao
youtube.com/ufpwrlifter

great OC

Hard to tell where that dude's body ends and the wall begins with that orange gradient, even harder so to make out his features and definition

yes motherfucker it's 80% nutrition and sleep and 20% what you actually fucking do in the gym, so long as you are constantly improving your lifts via more reps AND more weight or variations of this

Whoever the fuck says that it's all black and white and 100% volume or 100% weight is fucking retarded hasn't lifted for more than 6 months. Case in point, 99% of Jow Forums. Pick a routine, stick with it and actually make sure you're progressing. It's not that fucking hard jesus christ

>Do sets of 5 until you hit an @9 set, or until you complete 7 sets of 5
What does until @9 mean?

I see those routines but I'm not sure I agree with the high volume stuff. I mean if you do three sets of bench on a given day, and the third set puts you basically at failure (maybe 1-2 reps in the tank), I'm not sure how much more benefit you'll get from adding volume on that day for that lift. Not talking accessories. So repeat that 2-3x a week for 6-9 total sets and you can probably get bigger and stronger doing that. I've never understood the benefit of doing e.g. 10 sets of bench press on a given day. Either your muscles are shot after a few sets or the early sets aren't really challenging, at least in my experience.