Pigs are highly sentiment

Humans did not evolve to eat as much meat as we do. It was meant to supplement our diets once every month or so, not every day.

Excess meat consumption causes more health problems and cancers than smoking.

>Killing other beings for your own satisfaction
*killing lesser lifeforms to sustain your own life
ftfy
Eating meat is both naturally and morally justified.

more of a piece of shit
less of a piece of shit

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I would have no problem with never eating meat again. My only concern is if it's really healthy to cut out all meat.

>Humans did not evolve to eat as much meat as we do. It was meant to supplement our diets once every month or so, not every day.
[Citation Needed]
The human brain evolved as rapidly as it did because we learned to cook meat. Cooked meat takes significantly less energy to digest than plants or raw meat.

So
Fucking
Goooooooooooooooooooooooood

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eww pickles on their own

I mean you can still sustain life without killing anything.
Early humans ate carcasses that other animals killed or you could just go on a vegan diet.
No one is forcing you to sustain life by eating meat.
I'm a meat eater myself so I'm not saying I'm any better, I'm just not trying to say I'm morally justified in my actions.
And I never said it wasn't natural either.

Wait, what's wrong with pickles?
Here we use them as a snack whike drinking alcohol

If we ate only fish, raw or not, by this logic we'd be much smarter. Do you know how fucking retarded we are going to be when we can't eat wild caught fish anymore and we have to make fish oil pills out of phytoplankton or some shit?

>I mean you can still sustain life without killing anything.
Jesus you even write like a braindead roastie
>you could just go on a vegan diet.
Vegan diets do not provide the nutrients needed to sustain a healthy body.

If you eat grass fed beef, chicken or wild caught fish twice a week you're getting more than enough to survive. Of course if you're bodybuilding you need more, but then you're just a gluttonous prima donna with a disgusting gorilla body.

>Jesus you even write like a braindead roastie
Yeah I've heard that before.
>Vegan diets do not provide the nutrients needed to sustain a healthy body.
u don't have to be healthy to live, if you truly to do not want anything you eat to have been killed then that's something you can choose.
You won't be healthy yeah, but at least u made the morally good choice amirite.

I'm not trying to argue against u here, I'm just proposing the other side of the argument, it's something I like to do for fun.

My only point was that meat has been a mainstay of human diet since proto-humanity. You could argue that it's the basis of civilization. You also said that "Excess meat consumption causes more health problems and cancers than smoking." That's true for any food. You can easily keep a healthy diet of eating meat every day.

I do feel bad because they're intelligent and cute, but also the tastiest meat. I can easily give up cow and chicken wouldn't be terribly difficult, but I love pork.

At the same time, I don't know how people can be vegan. I see them chowing down on noodles, rice and carbs all the time. That is what gives people the beetus. Look at Japan and India with how they have a high rate of it.

The biggest issue seems to be that if you go vegan and don't consume any animal products, you'll have a hard time getting vitamin-B12 naturally. They need to take a vitamin for it or eat fortified foods with added vitamins like vegan milks.

Eat insects my dudes

>I've heard that before.
because you are one
>u don't have to be healthy to live
Yes. Yes you do.
>at least u made the morally good choice amirite.
No, because again, the consuming of lesser life forms is by no means morally wrong.

>"I'm not trying to argue against u here"
>is literally doing just that
Holy shit you really are a braindead roastie

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2 years of no meat and all my tests came back great at my last check up, no deficiencies in anything.

I do take a b12 supplement though, but everyone should be doing that

>don't eat or otherwise harm them.
ok. I won't eat pigs alive. I'll eat their corpses as much as I want. but I won't kill them. or hurt them. I've never done so. Other people do that. and I don't even buy directly from those people.

>You can easily keep a healthy diet of eating meat every day.
But it would be *healthier* to eat less, better quality meat.

Well fok you I love chicken and I'll eat as many chicken as I want!
Damn cow lovers think they can tell ME what to do!

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Cooked food generally takes less energy to digest. The brain burns 25% of calories and 60% of the glucose we consume. Cooked starch and vegetables have a lot of glucose. It makes more sense that fruits and vegetables made is smarter. Meat was a way to survive winter and it was also important for minerals and protein.

>But it would be *healthier* to eat less, better quality meat.
That's almost exactly what I just said
If you're eating 5000+ calories a day of meat it probably isn't healthy. But if you're eating ~2000 calories of meat a day, you're fine.

>because you are one
Well last time I checked I had a dick so I dunno about that.
>Yes. Yes you do.
No, plenty of people live unhealthy lives, look at fat people, look at smokers, look at alcoholics, look at underweight people.
You only need to be healthy to live to the fullest.
>No, because again, the consuming of lesser life forms is by no means morally wrong.
And why isn't it? It's okay because they're worth less than you? Murdering a sentient being is okay because it's lesser than you?
Murder is murder, no matter how "lesser" a being is, and that is, in moral practice; wrong.
>>is literally doing just that
Didn't I say I was just proposing the other side of the argument? That's what I'm doing, can't you see that?
It's not like I'm outright saying you're wrong, I'm proposing counter arguments to your points.

You seem pretty annoyed at me, you don't have to reply if u don't want, y'know.
You can just leave the thread and assume I'm retarded, it's all good.

cute piggys are not the same as the massive hogs we kill for food.

Plants are living things
Many things are living things
Living things eat other living things for their energy
We are living things
So what the hell is wrong with eating living things like broccoli and pork?

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>2000 cal
>of purely meat
>healthy
retarded burgers and their mental scooter gymnastics, holy fuck

>Murder
Murder is a crime, it's never been a crime to kill animals for food in any civilization.

No that user but what is the healthiest meat?
Actual question too

It's probably better to get it from varied sources, primarily beans, nuts, fresh fish, or non-chop shop chicken.

Beans, nuts, and fishies
What about insects and bugs? aren't their like some bugs you can order that are high in protein? or are they really expensive and I'd be an autist for buying?

If you want to eat bugs I'm sure you can go to your closest chinatown market and get some locusts on sticks or something. I doubt they're expensive but they're still probably not worth what you'll be paying and it will most likely be deep fried and have poor nutritional value.

Unless you are Asian you'll probably look weird shopping for edible insects by yourself in the middle of the city though.

Murder is a crime because it disrupts society, if murder was legal society would be out of control.
Murder isn't a crime because of moral reasons, it's a crime because of safety reasons.
Imagine anyone could kill you at a moment's notice, most probably wouldn't but the choice to do so is still there, and that's a threat.

Killing animals isn't a crime because it's beneficial to society.
Most of society's laws don't follow morals, of course there are some that do but those are the very small minority.

>it's beneficial to society.
No it isn't.
>Most of society's laws don't follow morals
They are based on religious morals, so idk where you got that from.

Its a fucking animal if they taste good and will sustain me i will eat it

We dont live forever eat shit die thats the established cycle fucking vegetarians if you want to live as a weak depressed twig do it but dont force it on everyone else

>eating 2000 calories of meat

yeah bro just eat 1,4 kg of meat every day

You must be a gigantic fat fuck to be able to eat that much meat and still eat other things.

Most vegans are fat because potato chips and spaghetti are "vegan" foods.

Also if you're not willing to admit you're a moral relativist, and are either vegan of full-meat-lovers pizza levels of retarded, there's no point trying to discuss this issue. You're basing your judgments on stone age moralism, not practicality or reason.

>No it isn't.
Yes, it is.
It's an easy way to get food for a huge amount of people to be fed easily.
You could say "we can just give everyone vegan food" but that would mean tearing down thousands upon thousands of slaughtering houses, which is pretty expensive.
It'd also mean to build more factories for vegan food production which would also cost money.
It's just too costly.
>They are based on religious morals, so idk where you got that from.
They're based on those yes, but with or without morals they are still important for society to function, that's what I'm trying to project here.
A society where murder and theft is legal would fall apart, morals or not.

>It's an easy way to get food for a huge amount of people to be fed easily.
The problem IS the amount of people that need feeding and the measures we feel the need to take in order to provide every one of those people with a full-course beef dinner 3 times a week. So they can waste oxygen shitposting online about how awesome factory farming is.
>They're based on those yes, but with or without morals they are still important for society to function, that's what I'm trying to project here.
I don't think you know the first thing about what society does or doesn't need and you're just defending some pointless world views you've developed about the amount of meat you have access to.

>Its a fucking animal
So are humans; this isn't a good argument.

>We dont live forever eat shit die
Agriculture is one of the top contributors to global climate change. You're fucking up the planet for selfish reasons.

I'm not even a full vegetarian, I just limit my meat and dairy intake as much as possible because I know those industries are immoral and harmful to the planet.

>It'd also mean to build more factories for vegan food production which would also cost money.
>factories for vegan food production
Those are called "farms", my friend. Just use the land for plants instead of cattle.

>You're fucking up the planet for selfish reasons.
>noo plants don't need omega-3, tap that soil for everything it's worth until it's less useful than a salt mine, make sure to plant s-o-y in those fields so we can feed it to all our yummy cows and pigs and chickens!

>because it's beneficial to society.
Everything you said is right except for this.
Red meat consumption is pretty bad for you and can cause heart disease.
Beef and dairy are some of the biggest (if not THE biggest) producers of greenhouse gases; if Europe cut their beef consumption in half they would automatically meet their emissions goals for 2030.

Jesus you're deluded
>things that occur naturally are objectively just or fair simply because they were the default

I'm not drinking a shit ton of soia my friend

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>its cute so dont eat it
Nope we are programmed to eat cute things thats why we like to kill small animals for food.

Have you never done something morally reprehensible for your own benefit?

>we are programmed to eat cute things

That's the exact opposite of how it works you sperg

No one is saying you have to consume onions
There are various nut milks, or you could always get your own dairy cow/goat and milk it ethically

We avoid eating cute humans, and puppies because we think they are cute humans, but have no issue eating small animals.

Uhh I can't speak for that user but personally, no (besides the morally reprehensible shit everyone does, like polluting the air with my car)
I'm not vindictive and my own success isn't worth harming other people

>have no issue eating small animals.
a lot of people have an issue, that's why they're vegan or vegetarian

>"I am superior because brutally tear and kill plants but not animals"

It's okay to eat meat because everbody in every culture does it. It's normal. Yet people get very emotional about this topic. A lot of people would never eat a dog and hate chinks for doing it but it's just their culture. Is it ok to eat some animals but not others? A lot of animals are highly sentient, yet we slaughter and eat them in an unnecessary quantity that harms us and the planet.

>killing a thing that has no consciousness
antibacterial soap is murder amirite

What the fuck does that have to do with my point?
You seemed to be using an appeal to nature fallacy. I was saying that's dumb, because its silly to think that nature has any moral rectitude if you really examine it for even 2 seconds.
Nature is cold an unfeeling. Thus why newborns are always the prime prey-item

>So they can waste oxygen shitposting online about how awesome factory farming is.
I don't really see your point here, are you disagreeing or agreeing with me?
>you're just defending some pointless world views you've developed about the amount of meat you have access to.
Well, if you check a few replies back, I was actually arguing against this.
I'm just bouncing back and forth between the 2 different sides of the argument, so I'm not really defending anything, just having fun by arguing with different people.
>Those are called "farms", my friend. Just use the land for plants instead of cattle.
Yes, and they would still take money to build, no? It's a wasteful expense when we already have slaughter houses built to feed people.

Reminder that only soulless normies eat meat.

This is where it gets foggy but I mean... Its still ALIVE, in the sense of the word. Cell death and rebirth, reproductive cell division etc. etc.
Hopefully plants are essentially dead, and are alive like a catatonic or vegetative person is.

You know that wasn't me, Im just telling you now that what you think is right means fuck all to anyone and no one wants to hear you speak.

>Yes, and they would still take money to build, no?
>building a farm
You must be a city-slicker. Farm equipment costs money, yes, but not nearly as much as government meat subsidies.

How do you define consciousness? Plants both feel pain and seek comfort and you are still killing a living being.

>kill plants
Are you comparing plants with animals? Animals have to a certain extent emotions and are sentient and can feel pain. Do you seriously believe a plants can feel pain? Or are you offended because you are related to plants and have the intelligence of broccoli?

>besides the morally reprehensible shit everyone does

So if everyone does it its okay right?

Plants aren't capable of forming coherent thoughts, seeing as they have no brain.
Things that do not have brains are generally incapable of being conscious.

Let's assume you are right, it's ok to kill everything that doesn't feel pain, by your logic a sedated animal is fine to kill.

Cows are really cool animals too but unfortunately very delicious.

Sorry cows.

>natural circle of life bro
>it's just the food chain bro
>superior life forms bro
imagine posting this shit on r9k without a hint of self awareness
at the same time you're eating factory farmed animals you didn't catch or slaughter because you're a weakling with no skills or knowledge kept alive by society not unlike the pigs you eat except your life is your cage and the one who eats you slowly is everyone else

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>Plants aren't capable of forming coherent thoughts

Neither can animals who are merely guided by instincts.

Also answer the question, how do you define consciousness?

No, it's not, but I can't afford an electric car right now, so I don't think it's especially terrible of me to drive a gas car.
On the other hand, I definitely can afford a vegan diet, so it's wrong of me to still eat meat and other animal products. I try to eat vegan when it's available, but I should be better about it.

Sorry. Usually when a person that isn't fucking dumb posts like that they say
>not the guy you were talking to
Honest mistake man, sorry. I gotta stop assuming the average post I read was made by a thinking man.
Cheers
>mfw hear you speak but we're all typing!
Ha ha

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>how do you define consciousness?
Being capable of feeling emotions and making choices. I would also make having a brain a prerequisite for consciousness.

You are posting from a device that you don't understand how it works, you aren't an electrical engineer, you are using software you can't even fathom to understand, you aren't a developer, all done through wires that you didn't place, what are you doing here?

Meat lovers is the only good pizza and vegans are wasting the good years of their lives
Humans are apex predators and pigs are not it's the natural food chain

The planet is already fucked but there is still a good hundred years before I need to care about it by which time I will be dead why should I care about some filthy pigs "feelings" they are animals and we are superior life forms more worthy of life modern pigs serve little purpose to nature and if all livestock was released it would cause more problems than solve any

Already built slaughter houses only cost money to maintain, and so do farms.
Making a buncha new farms would cost money, tractors need to be bought, workers need to be hired, thousands if not millions of them for this kind of scale.
It costs a lot more money than to maintain a slaughter house.

That's pretty irrelevant seeing as no one's arguing that they deserve a cell phone because it's human nature.
People argue they deserve to eat meat because it's human nature.

>feeling emotions and making choices
Whaat so a roach is conscious to you?
>demonstrates fear response
>has the capacity to choose where it seeks shelter in response to that fear stimulus

A living being can't feel pain without a nerve system and a brain. Animals have that to react to their surroundings and avoid danger and run away. Plants can't move so they don't need that. And the last time I checked the carrot I ate didn't have a brain.

>It costs a lot more money than to maintain a slaughter house.
Prove it.
If that were true, why would meat be so much more expensive than simple plant-based meals like beans and rice?

Well, yes, technically. A thing can be conscious but not intelligent.
Animals such as pigs and cows are both conscious and intelligent.

>Plants can't move so they don't need that
Ok. As long as you will now group carnivorous plants into animals then ok. That's still fucking dumb, but it means your rationale is consistent

>meat needs food, sunlight (optional in first world economies) and tons of water
>plants need sunlight and tons of water
they can't

That's fine then. Most people use consciousness and sapience interchangeably.

Plants lack brains structured like the ones of animals but have structures in place that act as such, so we can assume they are conscious, they also can't obviously walk but they will always seek sunlight and try to move towards it or in the case of carnivorous plants they have receptors that make them feel the pray is there and to swallow it, it's only logical they can also feel pain, especially considering they live quite a bit after getting eradicated.

>The planet is already fucked but there is still a good hundred years before I need to care about it
>modern pigs serve little purpose to nature
As opposed to humans such as yourself, who don't give a fuck about destroying nature because they won't be around to experience it?
Lmao.

I never claimed to be a superior anything though so your statement is totally illogical and irrelevant as a response. Also I know 90% of what goes into my computer and network function, fyi, getting my degree in comp sci and only thing I don't know but could find out if I needed to is the particulars of hardware involvement.

Buddy he's a human, his brain is always going to just-world its way into a position where he can reconcile whatever he can.

Nervous system =/= consciousness

The whole consciousness debate is pointless because even mid-tier "intelligent" animals like chickens have an entirely different type of nervous system which is why they can run around headless while they try to scream as they watch their own decapitated body running around aimlessly.

>plants can't move

youtube.com/watch?v=ykXXEr4SBRc

I wonder if vegans exists purely because they are low IQ or just ignorant, perhaps it's just all about virtue signaling.

People have the right to eat meat to survive, chemically made pills aren't a substitute for an healthy diet and MANY countries couldn't sustain themselves on purely producing food through agriculture, without mentioning that in your vegan madness you would ban any kind of milk derivate as well.

>investments are bad

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