God & Religion

>I DON'T KNOW HOW THE UNIVERSE WAS CREATED THEREFORE I'LL JUST SAY SOME MAGICAL MAN DID IT!!
Fucking hell you're stupid.

>Something that could reasonably be considered a deity, omnipotent or otherwise

Death exists, we all believe that. And most theists believe that something like Hell/eternal punishment exists too. When we have that I don't see why anything else can be a tripping point.

user I'm not the christcuck but the 4th dimension is time.

no it's not, time is a form of measurement we developed ourselves

He was obviously referring to a theoretical 4th spacial dimension

I don't think you get it. A fourth dimension or whatever the fuck else is still something. It's actuality (something which is) activating potential (something that can be) causing motion (or change). Aristotle's point still stands. All change comes from something that is acting upon something else that is to bring it from an actual state to a different state which was only potential until the force was applied. Does that make sense? It's like arguing that a train needs an engine carriage at the front to explain its motion. By talking about a new dimension all you've done is add more cargo/passenger/caboose carriages in the middle. The same principle still applies.

spacetime is the cocept user. they aren't separate things and time is not arbitrary.

>'if God created everything who created God?'
who else asked this question when they were fucking five?

I think that an unmoved mover existing makes perfect sense. But the attributes beyond its existence, omnipotence and omniscience which I attribute to it come from faith, I'd never deny that.

i'm not saying time isn't real, it's just not tantamount to a separate dimension, it exists in this one

user matter and antimatter spontaneously come into existence all the time. I'm not a physicist but maybe tgeres an anti-universe. then theres the multiverse-hypothesis.
also time began to exist when the universe did. there was no time before the universe in which anything could happen. cause and effect has a temporal component. even if the universe had a beginning, it has always existed.
there are so many other possible answers other than "a spaceless timeless disembodied mind that is omnipotent omniscient and omnibenevolent, personal, etc.

I took a philosophy course where we went over various arguments for god. Ontological, first cause, and design arguments were went over.
>argument from motion
Why would you rely on an argument using outdated physics? One possible scenario that hasn't been ruled out is that the universe is a succession of big bangs and crunches that go back infinitely.
>argument from contingency
I'm not convinced by the premise that the universe (or multiverse) exists contingently.

Also at the end of the day, all you're doing is arguing for a deist god, which I said is the most plausible to start with.

do you mean dimension as in some kind of warp gate to an alternate reality? that's not what dimension means.

no, you totally are misunderstanding everything i'm saying at this point:
>there are so many other possible answers other than "a spaceless timeless disembodied mind that is omnipotent omniscient and omnibenevolent, personal, etc.

>even if the universe had a beginning, it has always existed
Read this again. If it's what you meant to write you're going to need to elaborate because I have no idea how the fuck this is possible.

>time goes back infinitely
How the fuck does that work? Also if it does work doesn't the infinite monkeys at typewriters rule that it implies force God (or something that's pretty much what we mean when we think God) to be real because everything must have come into being at some point before, including something omnipotent, omniscient, etc?

If the universe existed at all points in time, then it always existed. if nothingness is before the universe, then time is not. if time starts when the universe starts then the universe has existed at all points in time. therefore the universe has always existed. at least as long as you say "something came out of nothing" to strawman our position. you misunderstand the concept of nothingness if you think anything is part of it.

I do not believe in god as the ruler of the universe who has power over nature or human fortunes, and source of all moral authority.

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I understand your point on time but don't understand how it's relevant. Do you believe that absolute nothing existing before time and the universe is possible?

>what little knowledge you possess of physics
OP's knowledge and Neils Bohr's knowledge of physics are closer than Bohr's knowledge compared to all there is to know about physics. The point is that even the most knowledgeable people know so little compared to what there is to know.

I don't know if there is existence outside of the universe. maybe there is a multiverse that we will never understand. however from my knowledge, if tge universe is everything, then there is nothing outside of it. if it actually began and wasn't an endless cycle of itself, there is still nothing outside of it, and either way it always existed. our concept of nothingness is what if there was not anything. it's less than an infinite void. we try to ask why there is something instead of nothing but maybe there is no reason. maybe theres an incomprehensible mess outside of our universe. maybe theres a god, but the way god is generally posed doesn't mesh with my understanding of "something vs nothing".

>The point is that even the most knowledgeable people know so little compared to what there is to know.
Well, yeah, exactly.

>who else asked this question when they were fucking five?

What is ad hominem for 300 Alex?

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Cyclic models rest on the notion that the value of the cosmological constant has changed over time so that spacetime will eventually contract, as opposed to expanding as with its current value. There's various models as to how it might work.
It's an idea that's consistent with modern physics, so it's not something anyone can eliminate offhandedly.
>infinite monkeys at typewriters
Depends on how god is defined. If that sort of god is permitted by the laws of physics, then yes. I imagine you wouldn't get anything like omniscience or omnipotence though.

Wisdom is knowing that you do not know. People with convictions of any kind are fanatics. As soon as your perception of the world is streamlined and "objectively true" there's a little more evil in the world. Empathy goes out the window.

If God existed why would we have r9k

Is God willing to prevent Jow Forums, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

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Shouldn't that be
>Then whence cometh Jow Forums?

N-N-No! B-Baka!

i hope god sucks my dick filthy nigger

>Can anyone define a god? If it is timeless, spaceless, and matterless, how can he even exist?
>Furthermore, if we are to use faith to justify our belief in God, how can we know that our faith is in our God is legitimate when the various competing followers of the various gods all "feel and experience" their god? Can we the conclude that faith is a reliable way to measure the truth?

>the force that makes things happens has to be a sentient being
LMAOing irl at christcucks

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Nonononono, you don't understand. That's where the intelligent design argument comes in.

>matter and antimatter spontaneouslu come into existance all the time
When and where has this been observed?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_energy
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy
Not him but these are most likely related to what he's saying. I still don't have an informed opinion about this but I'm sure it could be useful for other people here.

Bumparino deli

Believing in God through logic < Believing in God through faith

believing in god through faith = worthless and dumb.

Unsure, I think its next level NPC retarted to believe in a biblical god considering the pure amount of natural suffering (birth defects, disease etc.) what I wont deny the possibility that some sort of god exists

>time goes back infinitely
>how the fuck does that work

This from a guy who thinks there's a god that's been around forever...

Why should men be punished or rewarded without undergoing trials?

why should they be punished or rewarded at all? why should punishment be an option? why should there be trials when an all knowing being knows everything about someone's life? why do failures exist?
Don't say free will, cause you'd have to prove that that exists as well.

Yeah man, as soon as we figured out diseases were caused by germs and not demons and curses, shit got a whole lot worse.

Get yourself checked for an extra chromosome, faggot.

God doesn't need to justify His actions to anyone. But I know I'd prefer reward over punishment, hence I'm religious.

Considering you can't believe in god through logic if you're honest and objective, you've only really got one option.

who carrrrrreeessss

it's a dumb question

you literally have to be dumb before you can ask this question

i think that, like the concepts of time, mathematics, science, the concept of god is one used to create a boundary that allows man to perceive a world not designed or ordained by himself; to understand the enormity of a being that is all powerful, all knowing is beyond any sort of objective scale we could create, and we haven't even been able to quantify a collection of every living organism on earth - we haven't even been able to set foot on every acre of earth - we haven't even been able to explore the absolute deepest depths of the seas on earth

i think that people get so caught up in the "is" or "is not" of a god, they don't stop to look at the manner of a god, who, which if believed to be an entity beyond reasoning, beyond power and what we understand to define the rules of the universe, may not even be within the scale of imagination - should a god exist, its enormity would go not only beyond objective comprehension, but subjective comprehension

in this basis, "god" in the sense of classification is just a stepping stone to the belief that god is simply the contents of all we know and don't know, as in god is everywhere, everyone, everything, in separate parts, yet still connected inextricably, like the fingers to a hand

for a man - looking out across a world he had no part in creating, he wonders where it came from, how, why, when, perhaps as a baby, we see our parents as gods, we assume everything given is their design, and everything we see is their design, but when we age we begin to doubt that, yet our assumptions of "god" are still within this human scope; "it couldn't be my parents, but it still must be some sort of powerful man, to create all of this! to create me in this way, he must have looked like me! to create so much, he must have had many hands! to create such grand mountains, he must be giant!" what about for the cow? "i look like this, so the creator must be a cow! he must have numerous horns! infinite udders to feed all his angels!"

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So what exactly are you saying? Explain it in brainlet terms please.

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rather than god being a man, or a monkey, or a woman, or a shape or a color, hunched over the miniature conservatory that is our reality, divine hands changing tides or pushing planets or altering fate, god is the reality - god is just everything, everything is connected, everything meets in some far off center

Just a drawn out, pretentious way of saying he's a pantheist...

I guess everything sounds pretentious when you're a sour, godless brainlet.

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how can you believe in god and not think you're a brainlet honestly. you legitimately believe some guy started everything. like that's the magnum opus of your imagination, you think a guy did everything and that solves all the questions of where it came from and we don't need to know where the guy came from because he just is but the not the universe that can't just be. like what the fuck.

You're assuming I'm some sort of christcuck that believes in "some guy." I get that's the routine programming for you atheist NPCs to just start bitching about the sky daddy "hurr sunfin from nunfin" aspect of the god question and nothing else, but have SOME tact.

if you believe in god but you don't think it's a singular, sentient entity then you're basically just a pantheist, you special snowflake fuck

Nope, not everything. The shit you said for sure though.

I voted "other"
what do I think about god ?
I don't know, and I don't care
whether god exists or not literally doen't change anything, so why even bother with these time-consuming questions ?

You're sounding like some sort of brainlet again that can't differentiate between the subtle yet important fundamental beliefs that classify the many lines of belief in a god or godly figure or aspect. I guess you also have trouble figuring out what google means when you look up the differences between nihilism, existentialism, and absurdity? I'll hit you with a real kicker, people can take parts from any philosophy and combine them, which also include understandings of divinity. Turns out only retards are "100% sure" in the existence or non-existence of god without concrete evidence, you're on the same autism spectrum as a hardcore boomer christian, just at the mirrored end.

>Through Him we [existent entities] become manifest to Him and to us. In one respect we are through Him, but He is not through us, since He is the Manifest, and we remain with our own root [i.e., nonexistence], even if we bestow - through the preparedness of our entities - certain affairs that belong to our entities, and even if we are named by names that the veiled person supposes to be our names, such as Throne, Footstool, Intellect, Soul, nature, sphere, body, earth, heaven, water, air, fire, inanimate object, plant, animal, and jinn. All this belongs to One Entity, nothing else. (Ibn 'Arabi)

I believe testosterone was invented by Satan. UwU

simple english please.

There is only goddess. She is goddess and her name is ERIS.

If God is real why would he create a universe as vast and complex and inhospitable as it is, just for man?

simple minded retard driven by fear

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You'll understand after spending a lifetime as a sufi ascetic.

this argument relies solely on the unfounded trust that man is the only thing sapient and wholly conscious in the whole universe, which is just plainly illogical

there is no difference between god and a godly aspect, the second one you just made up nonsense that makes it a different intangible thing. worse than a pseudointellectual you're a fucking autistic retard.

God, and no one else, is worth fearing.

>muh atheism IQ is over 9000, which means that every question I don't like/care/understand is dumb

stop asking these questions, if you ask why did god do this they'll have a stupid bs answer that makes no sense so all you're doing is pushing them deeper by acknowledging potential existence of a downright retarded idea like god.

I'm the guy who called you pretentious, not the one you're responding to here, and you're showing yourself again to be a pretentious dumbass. Nice "100% sure" strawman btw. You're just a woo-loving pretentious pantheist moron with no solid rational description or argument for this pantheistic idea you're using way too much filler-language talking about. Also, yeah, I know what nihilism and absurdism are. lol the fact you think you're clever for asking that question really puts the cherry on top of your pretentious ramblings.

you're the one who tries to answer an impossible to understand question with the same question. "something couldn't come from nothing, so obviously it had to come from this other thing that i made up that has special rules that i also made up."

God taught man what was needed to survive though.

Every day I live I am more convinced there must be a God. Not the christian one, not the islamic or hebrew one nor all the others described by religions of the world.
It's just something pervasive, in everythingwe seeand touch and feel and It's not personal or sentient or ethic (not like we mean those things, at least).
It's just like when it's going to rain and you can feel it before it happens: the smell of wet ground, the electricity in the air, the sound of the first rain drops on the roof.
That is God, in my opinion.

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this is proof that god is delusional autism to everyone who believes. why can't you people just admit you're scared of dying, we all are.

Uh oh, brainlet boy is getting mad that he can't grasp the basic notions of spirituality, religion, and existence. If he can't understand it, it isn't real!

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>God doesn't exist because this one dumb user on Jow Forums had a dumb idea of what God is.

>this argument relies solely on the unfounded trust that man is the only thing sapient and wholly conscious in the whole universe, which is just plainly illogical
this is what religion teaches...which is is as you stated illogical

you're the brainlet who can't actually explain themselves coherently or even defend themselves when called out.

no god doesn't exist because it is just fantasy, that's it, it's pure fantasy. made up out of nowhere. it doesn't actually have logical sense or proof, the universe is not evidence of god in any sense.

If God doesn't exist then why do all the people of the world have faith and feel their god

He's not real, you gay homo pile of homo sausages. You are deluded and brainwashed.

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what "religion" teaches? i wasn't aware "religion" was just one system taught to everybody, you're asking these retarded fallacious statements that imply god as a concept isn't possible because it's not in human scope or some underlying stipulation you've fabricated that allows god to be real doesn't fit in human scope

because they're scared of the unknown. it's easier to just say that the void is actually a nice place/thing/skydaddy than to actually introspect on why you need to believe.

Because they're scared of the unseen. It's easier to say that death is just a void and not an after-life in which they'll be punished for their crimes.

Your atheist world-image is a fantasy without proof.

sure, that's the reverse, but I don't have to fill in any blanks and you have to rewrite the book.

no it's not, the onus of proof is on you. the idea of a godless world is not the initial arguement, you put forth the idea of a world with god first and atheism is holding it up to scrutiny.

>no god doesn't exist because it is just fantasy, that's it, it's pure fantasy. made up out of nowhere. it doesn't actually have logical sense or proof, the universe is not evidence of god in any sense.

are you that same retard that is certain nothing happens after death? why don't you try shooting yourself in the head and telling us if there is a god or not, if you come back and swear on the bible there's no afterlife or further existence after death i'll believe you

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>GOD DOESN'T EXIST!!
>the onus of proof is on you
uhmm no sweetie

the same logic can be replied to the reverse, nobodies coming back from wherever the fuck you made up.
>inb4 near death experiences
people have had near death experiences and said there is nothing as well motherfucker.

god is the idea though, you actual brainlet trying to say that god literally does not need proof

>you actual brainlet trying to say that god literally does not need proof
Said no one. You've yet to proven your claim though retard.