Honest thoughts on vegans and veganism?

>Evidence disagrees with my beliefs
>Must be lies and propaganda

>It's a fact that cows are a big contributor to global warming.
Compared to what? Agriculture in general is only 9% of US emissions.

The energy you use up shitposting on Jow Forums causes more than the burger you had yesterday.

i would need to read up more on the health benefits/drawbacks of the diet, but I'm fairly confident that it's healthier than a standard diet.
i definitely believe i could at the very least reduce my meat intake and not suffer from it.
i don't really care about the ethics approach, but you can't deny the impact that the meat industry has on the environment in terms of waste, emissions, water and land usage.
overall, i think we could all benefit from reducing our meat intake. we don't need to go all out like vegans, but at least incorporate some meat-free meals in our regular diet.
i also think militant vegans are harmful for the movement. being more approachable about the subject would help them a lot.

>"evidence"
what evidence?

you do realize, people outside veganism have MORE vitamin and mineral deficiencies then vegans?! especially vitamin D and magnesium

my abs are starting to show btw

no faggot, meat and dairy industry world wide stands for 62% of all c02 emission.

not to mention the onions they feed the animals is literally killing rainforests and fucking up the world big time

if your gonna eat meat, eat local and organic. for your health and the enviroment

>The general population is less healthy that a group that at a minimum is health aware
Shocker.

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>no faggot, meat and dairy industry world wide stands for 62% of all c02 emission
That is completely false.

Globally Agriculture accounts for only 24% of total CO2E emissions.

Stop believing propaganda

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true. and they won't get healthier neglecting plant based foods like vegetables and fruit, while increasing consumption of meat and dairy. they will actually get sicker and fatter.

your point?

Same. Also I feel people that eat meat (myself included) should have some hunting and butchering experience and be mindful of what they consume. Just overall respect for food, farms, etc. Shame vegan girls are usually mentally ill tho, vegan pusy tastes so good.

no you

Cited work. Any Google Scholar search of the literature on veganism and depression rates.

But you wouldn't bother actually seeking out any research that you could find disconcerting would you?

“Vegetarian diets and depressive symptoms among men” has recently been published in the Journal of Affective Disorders (1)

its 100% a bullshit propaganda retard study paid for by the meat and dairy industry, probably in america

It's a diet based on morals, not health. The health benefits people see come more from cutting out processed food than meat.

Go for it if you care about it that much but do it knowing that you will not be healthy because of it.

What diet where these vegan men following though? Was it one filled with a bunch of processed junk food? or where they following a proper, well nourishing and balanced vegan diet?

>(((Google Scholar)))

you know they weren't eating properly. probably toast and meatsubstitutes made from onions.

seriously, nobody in their right fucking mind would think cutting out meat and dairy for more vegetables and fruits would make them more " depressed".

fruit and vegetables have tons of positive health benefits on cardiovascular health, brainhealth, inflammation, mood, disease, weight, immune system and much much more. wereas meat and dairy the opposite.

use your brain.

I know very well that the test was most likely biased, I was just trying to point out the fact that the type of diet and foods the individuals ate are not mentioned.

I myself am a vegan and can attest full well that eating cleaner has done nothing to impact my mood or bring forth any negative moods or depression for that matter.

>one of the most polluted parts of the world now that the mainland took over
>trusting the South China Morning Post
I had no idea the 五毛党 had a presence on 4chin.

>I myself am a vegan and can attest full well that eating cleaner has done nothing to impact my mood or bring forth any negative moods or depression for that matter.
then you most likely haven't eaten any processed foods sugar og dairy on beforehand

because i notice it like day and night when i eat crap food, ie eat out, junk food, dairy etc
whenever i eat wholefoods again my mood gets better, i get more energy and i function so much better and feel much more lighter.

you're literally saying that what you eat has no affect on your mood, which is 100% bullshit.

My thoughts as a pescetarian/semi-vegetarian:

I don't see the point ethically when being vegetarian lives up to the same ethical standards pretty much.

>but the egg and dairy indusrty are evil

But there's nothing inherently wrong with eggs and dairy. The main reason animals are mistreated is because the industry rushes to sell them as meat. You can find farms or brands that treat their animals well, or if you live in the countryside you can raise your own chickens or goats etc. I don't wanna go on forever but my point is that ethically there's many ways to get around the animals being mistreated part, in order to get your eggs and dairy.

>but eating meat/dairy/eggs is bad for you anyway!

The evidence on this is not conclusive. Historically there hasn't been a single vegan society, so it's safe to assume humans are not adapted for a vegan diet. If you're vegan you run a very high risk of various deficiencies, b12 being the obvious one, but also vitamind D, calcium, zinc, vitamin A, omega 3s, and probably some more B vitamins too. If you're a body builder and you wanna stay away from processed crap, you probably will run into issues with protein as well, unless you're okay with chugging down a gazzilion cups of beans, but not all people can do that.

You have to be very knowledgeable and structured with your diet plan to get everything on a vegan diet, without relying too much on supplements. Even if you manage to nail it, there's nothing to show that it offers any unique benefits either. Eating just a tiny amount of animal products instantly makes your life a lot easier, and there doesn't seem to be any adverse health effects with moderate saturated fat and cholesterol consumption. A mediterranean-style pattern seems adequate.

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no no no and no. fuck off

If someone is happy to eat that way good for them. It doesn't bother me.

nice arguments

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I had suffered from depression way before I went vegan. I mean sure I can tell there's a huge difference from when I eat junk compared to clean, but I am just trying to be as honest and unbiased as I can. The way I got rid of my depression for the most part was not from my diet but another aspect of my life, believe it or not.

vegans are mentally ill.

Cheers!

It's not self improving in any way and only serves to signal to everyone else how "great" of a person you are. Like those chicks that obsess over LGBT shit to look like a good person.

Never going to make it.

one time a qt vegan azn girl on our second date said i could see and play with her bobs if i promised to go vegan for a week.

I did and proceeded to make a roast beef sandwich after she left and continue on my normal diet.

Its population control.
Vegan women that do it for serious end up infertile. The same as men.

Can't be depressed when you die at 35 from heart disease

it's for sensitive faggots with no real life

>compassion and health is for sensitive faggots
It sounds like you're the sensitive faggot

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>mainstream is against a vegetarian diet
>mainstream eats meat
>mainstream is sick with cancer and diabetes and cardiovascular disease and autism and almost everyone is at least on a type of medication
really makes you think

Personally I'm mostly a vegetarian, though I'm probably going to go vegan since dairy just doesn't agree with me and makes me bloated but I will miss good cheese. Meat I just find disgusting and haven't eaten it in years, though I'll still eat bivalves because they're super nutritious but have no negative environmental impact or sentience so who gives a shit.

Healthwise, I think a person who pays attention to what they eat will always > person who eats shit, regardless of the source of nutrients. Vegans tend to pay more attention on average, so on average they're healthier, but that doesn't mean eating some salmon or chicken is bad for you. Might be bad for the animals or the environment, but that depends too much on the specifics IMO.

I wish we could have non-troll threads about vegetarian and vegan food, since it can be delicious and you can eat it without being a vegan or vegetarian. Would like to see some recipe swapping and tips without arguing about the diet or morals.

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Food kinda sucks, morality for it doesnt resonate with me, I know plenty of people that fuck themselves up and refuse to aknowledge its flaws like deficiencies of certain vitamins and whatnot, to the point I know a woman that with her cooky bollocks fucked up her kid, slowing down his development in the womb and he ended up kinda fucked.

Im biased, honestly. Some food can be good but meat is better. The cool guys are alright but again, morals just dont resonate with me and Im a omnivore, just eating veggies isnt apealing at all, and the general insuferable stonewall of "muh murder" just kills any will to even try.

If you are a good vegie, go ahead, I wont stop you but lord almighty, dont try to convert me or preach its virtues, thats just obnoxious.

>mainstream is against a vegetarian diet
that is news to me

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The fuck kinda people you around that support vegans or veggies? Everyone here mocks it and pokes fun at them, dont listen to some random wankers online to see the average guy and gals idea on something.

>the virgin news jews vs the chad he-vegan

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Ethically I can understand, but nutritionally I'm yet to be convinced.

Before modern agriculture, how would vegans survive? They say by eating a varied diet, but the varied diet they have access to is only due to agriculture, travelling the world etc. If a vegan was dropped in a European forest 10,000 years ago, what would they eat, survive, and thrive on?

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>what would they eat, survive, and thrive on?
I'd eat meat! Or at least cheese and dairy. Veganism is only possible in our modern society, and there's no reason not to acknowledge that. But that doesn't make it wrong. Lots of things are only possible in our modern society that are still good. Take advantage of the possibilty and go vegan; and should anything even happen (like civilization collapse) to make it impossible, well just go back to not being a vegan.

This has been covered. Higher volume of semen with the same about of sperm, giving the illusion of lower total sperm count due to lower concentration. Also
>implying I can rawdog girl is bad
When I want to actually get a girl preggers I'll just nut in her more often or stop being vegan for a couple of months if absolutely necessary.

We could all stand to eat more vegetables, but vegetarians tend to be self-righteous fags

(((peer reviewed)))

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have you ever eaten at someone else's place or at a restaurant with friends?
it's common to mock veganism in any culture that is worth its salt
news circles might push for a "Reduction" in meat consumption under the pretense of enviromental issues, but veganism or vegetarianism is never pushed, it's usually just by individuals or animal rights advocate non profit organizations
"Most vegetarians are women"
"vegetarians have less masculine, new study shows"
"vegetarians are more prone to mental illness
"vegan kid is killed by parents"
You see and hear this shit constantly on online and offline circles.
I can't even tell anyone at my gym that I deadlift 6 plates for reps without eating any meat because they won't believe me or start making fun of the idea.

meat is worse than sweets apparently

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Vegans are members of a messianic anorexia cult. What would you like to know?

youtube.com/watch?v=EFF30jfTubU
youtube.com/watch?v=1HwBtRlyxPs
youtube.com/watch?v=PJnPZgLHHWQ&t=1130s

>it's common to mock veganism in any culture that is worth its salt
God I fucking love living around chinks for this. They legitimately do not get veganism. "Why wouldn't you want meat?"

The frightening deficiencies of the vegan diet usually leaves most of the cult members unbalanced at best. It's normal for a nutrient starved vegan to scream about his sick desire to kill children, or to just snap and kill his whole family.

Tl,dr stay away from vegans

youtube.com/watch?v=-SBFrW8ToPQ

>It's a conspiracy by Big Onions and Big Pharma to push veganism! It all makes sense now, you can't trust the science!
>Big Meat and Big Pharma pushing meat-eating and anti-veganism? Pfft, that's retarded, you gotta trust the science.
Oh, user, I'm afraid we're being (((duped))) from both ends...

Meanwhile IRL it's the anorexia cult vegans, who actually drop dead from their pitiful weak hearts....

>Hom Jay Dinshah (November 2, 1933 – June 8, 2000) was founder and president of the American Vegan Society and editor of its publication, Ahimsa magazine (1960–2000) A lifelong vegan and vegetarian. He collapsed and died in 2000 at the young age of 66 like the broccoli nibbling cuck that he was. His last words were "who the fuck told me these fucking plants were healthy?"

>Fuck you fucking vegans now I'm fucking dead.
>And my teeth fell out decades ago like all Vegans.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._Jay_Dinshah

>Listening to recruiters for a nutjob cult whose members screaming in the forest until their rotten vegan teeth fly out
youtube.com/watch?v=p6JBICT9OQ4

Legitimate question: Is there a single athlete/bodybuilder out there who made gains exclusively on a vegan diet?
So not someone who first became an athlete/bodybuilder on meat and later switched on "vegan", I'm talking someone being vegan as a skelly twink and then becoming huge just on a vegan diet alone.

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Vegan = malnourishment = mental illness

A vegan diet cannot get over 50 nutrients, some including Vitamin A, B6, B12, F, K2, heme-iron, cholesterol, fish oil, DHA, EPA, creatine, taurine and more. You CANNOT get these vitamins on a vegan diet so you will get malnourished years into a vegan diet. This is why all long term vegans have that gaunt malnourished look.

None. All vegans either use steroid users or people who built their entire fitness on animal foods and then swapped to vegan diets. You need animal products to be in a anabolic state

Veganism causes infertility

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Yes, search youtube and google. Some went vegan before lifting, some (like Jon Venus) just made most of their gains as vegans. There are several others, but of course Jow Forums ignores this. MegaVegan is a good example, lifelong vegan & an old dude but still ripped.

Also, the idea that "well they made those gainz on meat and THEN became vegan!" is stupid. Maintaining gains is not some completely different thing, to the point that it's UNTHINKABLE to make gains on a vegan diet but completely doable to keep them.

The reason there aren't that many 100% natty vegan bodybuilders who where always vegan is that lifelong natty bodybuilders and lifelong vegans are both comparatively rare - finding an overlap is going to be rare. And of course once you DO find someone, Jow Forums will just claim they juice.

Those same guys who built on plants were also on gear though. The one thing a vegan diet does is mess with hormones and those herbivores are getting them exogenously. It's an illusion.

>Some went vegan before lifting, some (like Jon Penus) just made most of their gains as vegans

Wow what amazing liars you vegans are. Jon Penus built his entire physique eating tons of meat, by his own admission. (THEN went vegan to ride the trend wave to riches) Do you starvation cult members ever tell the truth?

>state that Jow Forums will accuse vegan bodybuliders of roiding
>Jow Forums IMMEDIATELY does that
lmao

Haven't been followin Jon that much since he does very little fitness stuff anymore, just lifestyle. But I remember one vid where he said he made "most gains" as a vegan, but maybe he was exaggerating?

So disingenuine... Jon Venus built his entire fitness on animal products when only swapped to veganism around 3 years ago I believe. It is unthinkable to make gains on a vegan diet, it's almost impossible, it is a catabolic state, maybe for the first months you will make gains because you are eating your own fat (animal product) but after that you will be malnourished.

If your last point is true, how come I can see and name plenty of carnivore (rare diet) people who bodybuild and look amazing? vegans btfo once again

link related

So that's a no?

Good morning retarded malnourished antivegan

stop talking about what yo udont know, vegan idiot

almost no one is born vegan, but people have indeed surpassed their non vegan body on a vegan diet, take that as you will
Nimai delgado is one of them, he's probably on roids but who knows.

Vegans are one of the most delusional two-faced mentally ill people you could encounter.
Fighting till death against the horrible conditions of chickens while at the same time pretending like the horrible conditions of underage underfed preteen little kids who make their shirts and assemble their iphones don't exist at all. Pretending like mass market vegetable growing is "natural" and "organic", acting like Pedro gives a single fuck about veganism and isn't killing and spraying thousands of insects, rodents and birds that get near his crops. Or that your precious avocado wasn't the product of mexican cartels extorting hundreds of mexican families. Applying their arguments only for one side, for example all the fuckload of ex vegans who stopped being vegan their strong argument is that's because "they didn't do it properly", but they don't apply the same "eat properly" argument when talking about meat eaters and will frequently sell studies about obese amerilards eating nothing but pizza, ice cream and soda as standard meat eaters and yell CANCER HEART DISEASE YOU'LL DIE yeah no shit if you're shoving processed meats and sugar on the daily.

In short, champions of never ending confirmation bias mental gymnastics

>It is unthinkable to make gains on a vegan diet, it's almost impossible, it is a catabolic state,
Not that guy, but more info on this please? I mean I figured if you hit your macros and micros it should be fine, even if it's much harder to do so for vegans. Why is it 'catabolic'? Is there something special in meat that plants never have, besides protein?

Unlikely to be malnourished since I can get all of my complete proteins from 1 raw egg, or all of my vitamins from 1 bite of liver.

But you keep scuffing down pounds of fruits and veges and order your supplements since you vegans think that is so healthy lmao. Don't forget a vegan diet lacks all thsoe nutrients I listed above no matter what you supplement because they either don't have it on a vegan diet or the conversion rate is atrocious :)

>but who knows
yeah hmmmm who knows really tricky to figure out, maybe he did get this big on beans and tofu huh

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John Saker? Really he's just another nutjob vegan. He may just be pretending to be retarded, for the views. But if his highly disturbing insane brand of vegan activism doesn't turn anyone away from veganism, the new recruit has to be insane themself.
I guess this should not be surprising, considering veganism is a starvation cult.

youtube.com/watch?v=BCeA238F_Us

Micros and macros dont matter if you dont get the amino acids and proteins needed to built muscle or cells. Vegan diet is naturally incomplete in amino acids such as creatine and taurine...

> Is there something special in meat that plants never have, besides protein?
The entire spectrum of vitamins and fat soluble nutrients that human populations thrived in optimal health in since the dawn of time...

youtube.com/watch?v=Gz0biHBJuaU&

Yes goy, spend your lifelong earning on meat, medication and healthcare

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Is this how retarded vegans are? They really think their "vegan" playboy Nimai Delago is natural? It is so obvious he is on steroids... yet you proclaim him as a "vegan body"... yeah just stick roids up your ass

Do you not realize that people can lie? He has nothing to lose and eveuthing to gain from claiming vegan. Hes part of that Gamechangers bullshit and sells tons of merch.
Fighter nate diaz claimed vegan but later admitted in an interview he eats eggs. vegans are so fucking guillable..

Jon Penus, built his muscular physique eating tons of meat by his own admission, now calls himself"vegan!" For the vegan bucks and fame. Nothing more.

Vegans are such fucking liars. You guys will point at Clarence0 as example for veganism working when hes only been vegan for a couple years.

If Ronnie Coleman went vegan in 2018 you'd say vegans can be Mr Olympia

>creatine is an essential amino acid

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Meat does not cause illnesses, in fact it heals illnesses. Go to an indigenous tribe, where are their diseases that are plagueing modern society? They do not have diabetes, cancer rates of ours, bone issues, teeth issues, heart issues etc. And their diet is meat, seafood, some fruits sparingly in season. Use your head lmao. Sugar is the problem and a vegan diet thrives on sugar.

Also I don't really understand your comic. If I was hungry I would hunt and eat my own food. I also have eaten raw meat (sushi, steak tartare as well as plain meat) and it is delicious.

>spend your lifelong earning on meat
Yes, as oppposed to what? On big farma processed products?
>medication and healthcare
I don't use any medication and I pretty much never need to use my free healthcare either, aside from doing routine check ups every 6 months or so.

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to built muscle like a bodybuilder, yes. Vegans like to play around with what is "essential" or not for health and survival. I am not talking about surviving, I am talking about being in peak optimal health and the diet related to that. You can survive off bread. But it is not optimal for gains. You need animal products for gains and optimal health

Eating enough organic raw meat keeps the health care costs way down. How do you vegans afford the staggering dental expenses of being a deficient vegan?

youtube.com/watch?v=4nf7wAMwfrw

Prove it
Science and data disagrees with you

Right, so theoritically speaking then: if a vegan made sure to get all the aminos (supplementing or just planning like an autist or both) as well as creatine, and made sure to get all the micros too (again, with supplements and/or autistic planning), and made sure they got everything in the same amounts as a meat-eater, they'd be set though? They could make gains?

I mean I get that it would be hard as hell to plan like that and require 20+ supplements and that just eating a steak is easier, but I mean theoritically: there's nothing in meat that one can't supplement, right?

So why isn't there a single vegan madlad out there who did something like a Christian Bale transformation just to show "the meanie meaters" that he can gain muscle on a vegan diet alone? Purposefully go twink mode and then ripped through diet and exercise alone?
To even make steroid check ups to show the oh so bad meaters how right he is?

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bluntcoach.com/2018/05/13/its-official-the-worlds-strongest-man-is-a-vegan/

>Professional paid vegan posterboys (who mostly, like Arnold, built their bodies eating tons of rare beef, and steroids)

Or vegans IRL......

youtube.com/watch?v=EFF30jfTubU
youtube.com/watch?v=1HwBtRlyxPs
youtube.com/watch?v=PJnPZgLHHWQ&t=1130s

"Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Dr Price gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200251h.html
is a good book to dig your feet into indigenous meat diet for health vs modern sugar carb diets for ill-health. Very easy to logically see the effect of diet.

And science does not disagree with us. All the data saying meat is bad and causes cancer is outdated and wrong, or you are confusing processed meats for meat. Studies are coming out correlating sugar and carbs to atherosclerosis.

Anecdotally, when I was a vegan I did make gains for the first couple of months. Although, some people say this is because my body was using my fat as fuel, which is an animal product, so it was not due to my vegan diet. After a couple months gains tapered off, I suffered physical health defects of a vegan diet, and back to animal products for good gains.

I believe a vegan diet is pure malnourishment for the human body. Even if you supplement, it is unnatural for the body to be put through that stress and you will end up with physical ailments in my opinion.

If you autsitically supplement every macro and micro you will make gains on a vegan diet but no where near an animal-product based diet and you will also get health defects

>animal-product based until 2015
>earn 90% of competition winnings on an animal-based diet
>turn vegan at the end of competitive career
>tee-hee im a vegan, all my works are due to being vegan